The Power Of The "R" Word, page 8

EDIT: As i didn't read the entire thread yet ( but checked the last few pages) i will just raise my hand and admit that when it comes to this issue i am all for male bashing and will for the most part see any 'affirmative' ( " we 'did it' but she wanted too" ) defense as attacks upon the characters of the female victims.

Sorry about that but i am 'biased' with my mind firmly closed.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
As for stat rape i would say this, each case needs to be assessed on it's merits, as with any breech of the law.

Hi IR,

Thing is that the law overwhelmingly sides with men; it's VERY difficult to prosecute rape cases and the vast majority of men get away with it.

Reporting Statistics

Only 16% of rapes and sexual assaults are reported to the police (Rape in America: A Report to the Nation. 1992). In 1995 there were 97,460 rapes reported to law enforcement officials. At a 16% reporting rate, this means that there were actually closer to 649,733 rapes in the United States. Along the same lines, the number of rapes reported in New York state in 1996 was 20,911. At a 16% reporting rate, this means the actual number of rapes was closer to 139,406. (Computerized Criminal History, Feb. 1998)

The rate of false reports of rape is approximately 2 - 3% which is no different than that for other crimes. This is different than the 8% of reports which are unfounded. This means that in 8% of the rape cases reported the investigators or prosecutors deemed that the case was not prosecutable for any number of reasons. Only 2 - 3% of the reports however were fabricated stories.

Conviction and Sentencing

Less than half of those arrested for rape are convicted, 54% of all rape prosecutions end in either dismissal or acquittal. The conviction rate for those arrested for murder is 69% and all other felons is 54%. (The Response to Rape: Detours on the Road to Equal Justice) 21% of convicted rapists are never sentenced to jail or prison time, and 24% receive time in local jail which means that they spend an average of less than 11 months behind bars. (The Response to Rape: Detours on the Road to Equal Justice)

www.sa.rochester.edu...

How about this one, a friend of a frien was in a night club, slept with a girl. Now this is an 18's and over nightclub. He then spent a year or more fighting a legal battle because the girl was actually 15 and had lied and said she was 18. That is technically stat rape. So what should happen there? Should he be imprisoned for years because he didn't ask for ID?

Yes, if you like them to look as young as possible and don't want to risk jail time you should probably ask for ID just to make sure. Thing is most men ( still in the US; it's certainly worse in my country& many other places) don't have to bother because they have less than 10% chance of being found guilty with half of those convicted spending no time or less than a year behind bars . If you just work based on the rapes reported the stats still discourage reporting the crime as there is quite less than 50% chance that he will be found guilty and with only half of those doing serious jail time. Perhaps if women were not so concerned about their dignity ( they already mostly believe it's somehow their faul; men are as always not to blame for that) and more vengefull we could lock up all these types but here we are and there you are pointing out that a significant number of women have managed to fabricate proof so effectively that they managed to defeat the system that more often than not can't find sufficient proof. Getting away with rape is sadly nowhere near rocket science and hyping the few cases were the system is abused by women is doing them a great disservice.

However this thread wasn't about that, you have brought it up, this thread was about how men are badly treated in rape cases, unfairly seen by juries and how men have to be quite fearful of such an accusation ever being thrown their way.

Well if that is what you want to talk about you wont make any headway as men are VERY infrequently innocent victims of women. Perhaps you should rather ask why the few women ( 2-3%, or there abouts, earlier indicated) who do lay false claims were angry, spiteful or ashamed enough to do so? Just because you are not guilty of a crime does not mean you are not mistreating people or associating with the wrong, too young or unstable, women.

In conclusion when it comes to sexual assault charges i will take a women's word over a man's any day of the week as whatever the chance she might be lying it's always going to be order of magnitudes higher for 'the dude' that apparently mostly felt compelled to find a way to have sex no matter the ( as we can see) small risks involved.

Stellar

Fixed some stats

[edit on 23-5-2009 by StellarX]

reply to post by StellarX

---

The only thing i will address is the ID thing. I'm sure if a guy asks to see a girls ID when they're thinking of going home together that girl will be rather weirded out by it. So why would a guy who wants to have sex ruin his chances when he's in a club for people over 18 years of age? When you enter that club you basically state you are 18 at least, therefore any guy who ends up with a girl from there should not be prosecuted for stat rape.

If you think the guy should go to prison, you are basically siding with a girl who has lied about her age, consensually had sex then because she gets in troble with her parents or something like that cries rape to get out of trouble. Are you honestly telling me, that in such a specific situation that this is ok? As i said it took him a year to clear himself and the deciding factor was that the girl had claimed she was 18 by entering the club.

Originally posted by StellarX

In conclusion when it comes to sexual assualt charges i will take a womens word over a man's any day of the week as whatever the chance she might be lying it's always going to be order of magnetitudes higher for 'the dude' that apparently mostly felt compelled to find a way to have sex no matter the ( as we can see) small risks involved.

Stellar

I'm sorry but this is not how the law works, i won't be responding to the rest of your post because as you stated at the outset you are close minded on the topic. Whilst i admire your honesty (that is sincere) i cannot abide by a closed mind who would instantly side with any woman making a claim. I don't side with either, i wait until evidence comes along or the most convincing testimony. That is how it is supposed to work.

Your post however does make my point rather brilliantly. That men rarely get a fair trial, or even a fair police interview because the public is so biased towards the womans side.

[edit on 23-5-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

---

and, here it is...

That is another issue i have taken here and when i asked someone to provide statistics for false allegations of rape there were unable to do so because the statistics, reliable ones, do not exist. I would like those to exist so the debate could be more accurately gauged.

those statistics should have been part of your opening post

this debate - is based on your assumption - an assumption that included an accusation - against women

and you did accuse women - of something despicable - while simultaneously dismissing something that comes with actual statistics with an: "I'm sorry ladies..."

I am not saying women don't lie

I am not saying that innocent men aren't being accused of rape

I am not saying that I - or we - don't care about those innocent men

if you read through everything the women have been saying Imaginary - you will hopefully see that NONE of them have really disagreed with any of the points I just mentioned

what this is about - in my opinion - is the fact that you want to minimize the significance of the crime of rape (while protesting that you really are concerned)

at the same time, it seems you want to draw attention to the power women really have over men - and demonstrate just how much damage they can do

OK then - let's let it be about what you want it to be about

women are devious creatures

while it's not hard to look back through history and see that human beings could be considered devious creatures - and up to no good much of the time - let's just get it over with and all of us admit: women are human – we suck sometimes

are there laws in place to address the issue of false testimony and false accusations? What about perjury then - is that something that exists without consequence? For everyone - or just women?

are the police particularly inept when asking their questions and taking their notes - from women? Or are you saying that they're inept - in general?

is it the responsibility of the police to judge innocence or guilt - or is their role in all this supposed to be separate from that end?

you seem to believe that if we could only teach the police to realize that women lie - men would not be so vulnerable

I say - if we could only teach the police to recognize rapists by just looking at them - then this whole problem would magically disappear

or, maybe we could teach the police the art of remote viewing - think of the possibilities...no more false convictions - we'd know everything we need to know all the time

women lie Imaginary - yes, it's true

I don't know what to say -

except this:

I have never been raped - but there was one time - that came out of nowhere - where I really expected that this is what was going to happen

and it did come out of nowhere - I don't know why it didn't happen - the only thing I can think is that I may actually possess magical powers

so - not really my experience - but, close enough

However - I know many, many, many women who have been raped - so many in fact that I began to see myself as an anomaly - the exception to the rule

Those are the ones I know about - how many others do I know nothing about - even out of my family and friends?

Of the ones I know - some women were raped as adults - some when they were teenagers - some when they were little girls

The daughter of a very good friend of mine was raped by her own father when she was only 3 – I can only hope that she remembers nothing about it

Many of the women that have been raped - that I know personally – were raped by their fathers, their uncles, their brothers, their neighbors...

I know of a woman that was raped by her brother – and was essentially cast out of her family for daring to even mention it – she’s been suicidal her entire adult life

Another woman was raped throughout her entire childhood by her father – and went to prison for trying to kill him when she was an adult

the next door neighbor of my sister was raped, savagely beaten and left for dead a few years back by a serial rapist

I was visiting a friend of mine at college and staying in her dorm room when a serial rapist that had been targeting the campus somehow managed to get into her room late one night

his 2nd mistake was thinking she was alone – but it turns out – I wasn’t even important in this story, because his 1st mistake was picking her in the first place. She’s a strapping Irish American woman with a quick temper, even quicker wits – and I woke to see this guy trying to dodge her and get out the door while she proceeded to beat the crap out of him

He was arrested less than an hour later trying to rape another young woman in another dorm – this had been going on for weeks – no one wanted to let the girls know about any of it – BECAUSE – they didn’t want to draw attention – they didn’t want anyone to worry

and just so that this is balanced – I want to mention the men – because truthfully – there are so many that have been raped that never have and never will talk about it – because they’re men

I had a boyfriend that was raped when he was a boy by his uncle – who he went to live with after his father had died

how many thousands of men can tell a similar story? Thousands and thousands – it’s true

Imaginary – I’m not talking about this because I think you don’t understand – and I want to make you feel bad

I already know you know all of this – and I have no intention of accusing you of not understanding

I’m going over all of this because it’s ugly – and the “R” word just glosses over it

we need to see the ugly – all of us

you made women angry with this thread for pointing out the obvious

women can use the “R” word as a tool

women can also lie about other things – they can steal, cheat – murder

they commit crimes – just like men

we have a system that attempts to deal with all of it – it’s not perfect

you’re not wrong – men can be falsely accused – and it can destroy their lives

but you singled out women and attempted to minimize the larger crime so you could draw attention to what is a personal concern of yours – and you began the whole thing with “I’m sorry ladies”

I’m not going to say anything else – there’s no solution for this - it’s not a debate anyone can win

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

---

I'm sorry but nonsense and rubbish

I was afraid of that

well then - we're done I guess

I've said what I have to say

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

---

also - Imaginary - I realize - it looks like maybe you didn't even bother to read what I wrote

is that even possible?

:-)

I won't be around to fight about this today - not for any real amount of time

so - this is going to have to continue on between you and whoever feels like they want to deal with it

if it looks to me like you actually read what I said and can come up with a more even tempered response -maybe you and I can continue on later

but for now - all I can say is - you are one angry little muppet - and I'm not in the mood
:-)

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

---

last post from me today Imaginary

get a grip

read what I said

this isn't a debate

it stopped being a debate a while ago

read what I said

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

---

It is a debate if people will let it be. If you don't want to discuss it then don't bother posting, very simple. If you just want to insinuate rubbish then it really does stop a debate. It's up to you. You haven't taken a look at the questions i posed obviously, or haven't bothered replying. That is a way of continuing the discussion, you have chosen not to and so i won't bother with your pettiness.

reply to post by Sonya610

---

Would you, as a male, find that a bit offensive? For someone to imply that deep down ALL men, no matter how nice they seem, could be capable of rape? Because that is what the OP said, only he said it in the inverse.

thank you Sonya

nicely done

I'm outta here - for now

I would request some of the angrier female members take a read of this.


falserapesociety.blogspot.com...

It was linked by another member. Please read through it, don't skip. This is why i posted it. I mean the discussion with friends prompted the idea into my head, the stories on that website though are why this needs to be discussed. To do otherwise and bash down anyone who does as a mysogynist or other stupid accusations is deeply immoral.

The One Party System replaces the Two Party system in the U.S.
  Posted 2 days ago with 14 member flags

Virginia House Bill 1160: Nullify the NDAA
  Posted 16 days ago with 10 member flags

The Solution
  Posted 5 days ago with 7 member flags

The President of the World... I think EVERY ATS member should see this.
  Posted 14 days ago with 6 member flags

2010 Hate Crime Statistics
  Posted 15 days ago with 2 member flags

Ron Paul\'s fans are building like legos
  Posted 15 days ago with 1 member flags

With all this talk about possible voter fraud...
  Posted 1 days ago with 1 member flags

Wow! An amazing speech! Freedom is inevitable
  Posted 0 days ago with 1 member flags

Newest topics, updated in real-time:

Newest topics getting flags, in real-time:

Newest topics getting replies, in real-time: