Originally posted by Sonya610

Are your female friends frequently online? It would be great to get THEIR input on this thread. I bet they would find this topic fascinating. I think they would get a whole new perspective from this thread.

Actually i've sent this thread to them, as i often do but they never want to post on ATS as they see it as a weird website *shrugs* They saw the posts on reptilians and gave up.

Originally posted by Sonya610

So much of this discussion is based on "what your female friends supposedly said" or more likely not what they SAID but what you think they would DO. But they are not here, and you only have the females on ATS to tell you what WE have heard and OUR reality with regard to the female opinion on fake rape charges.

Absolutely, however i've been on ATS a long time, have no history of making stuff up or lying and when you consider i expected some rather harsh debate with this thread i don't really have much motivation for starting it other than a debate i had with friends that sent my head buzzing for quite a while. I am not assuming what they would do, they are decent people who were disgusted by women making false accusations. One of them referred to it as a trump card, not in a happy way but in disgust.

Originally posted by Sonya610

Here is a question, for every guy that faces FALSE charges, how many real rapists do you think never get charged? All crimes have a conviction rate, wonder what that rate is for rape? This is about likelihood, the likehood of a woman making up false charges.

Well this was one of my issues, i'd like full figures to be researched and published, they have not been done. The false allegation rate is estimated between 1% and 50%. You i'm sure would see that as a ridiculous basis to start this all out on. I agree and it needs to be sorted out.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis

because - oddly - women falsely accused is not a concern for the OP

Absolutely not, you are just maknig that one up and it is unfair at best. I have never said that, implied that or anything else.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis

or men on men crimes - including false accusations

this is about the power of women to destroy the lives of men

this is what I'm taking away from this

it doesn't strike me as being about justice

Then you are projecting your own views onto the thread and not taking away what i meant by it. I have repeatedly said it is about justice, about fairness and i have absolutely nothing against women. Again most of my friends are female, if i have something against women i pick very odd friends.

I'm sorry Spiramirabilis, i usually love your debates and opinions but on this one you have crossed the line from taking what someone has said at face value to reading into it without any basis. I must admit i'm deeply insulted by this line

"because - oddly - women falsely accused is not a concern for the OP"

It is a concern for me. I didn't mention it for the reason i mentioned above, many times. Did you miss those?

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984Absolutely, however i've been on ATS a long time, have no history of making stuff up or lying and when you consider i expected some rather harsh debate with this thread i don't really have much motivation for starting it other than a debate i had with friends that sent my head buzzing for quite a while.

Oh I do not think you are making stuff up. I think you hear things and then color the statement/facts with your emotion.

But the question is, after this lovely debate why not bring up this topic with your female friends? Truly. Print out this exchange and bring it the next time you meet up with them and get their honest opinions.

All you have really said is that your friends AGREE that rape is a harsh charge, as is murder, as is pedophilia, as is heroin. Felonies. Yup, all of them. Yet somehow this has been construed as a "hidden power" that is often weilded against innocent men due to female spitefulness.

I suggest you research the topic more and realize that male spitefulness has much more frequent and far harsher physical repercussions.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
I could care less about your conversation with your friends - the impetus for all this has nothing to do with your responsibility for the OP - or what you're suggesting

Someone else asked why i didn't post about men, therefore what my friends said, the discussion we had is important as that is what made me make this thread. We discussed women using the false claims and so i never considered men. If you don't like that then there is nothing i can do but it is my motivation and so take it or leave it. It is however the truth.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
do you understand what it is that you are suggesting?

Do you even understand what i am suggesting? So far it seems not.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
still waiting for a response to my earlier question - which words of yours have been twisted?

in the interest of a real, serious debate...

I'll have to come back for my response later - leaving for now...

I point you again to the earlier posts because quite honestly i don't want to go through it again. Take a look back, there are several posts clearly pointing out which words were twisted.

Double post.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by Sonya610


I suggest you research the topic more and realize that male spitefulness has much more frequent and far harsher physical repercussions.

No offence by this, but sometimes when I read such topics I feel like I see a pattern with women in these threads.

It sometimes seems some of the replies to threads like this may be from women, who feel they for some reason need to defend women as a whole by focusing on the bad stuff men do instead. Instead of the topic of how "some" women can "also" do bad things.

One mention of a woman doing something bad and it feels like you see women teaming up and attacking the men. Is this some kind of women's ego at play?

I'm not trying to generalise or be offencive, it's just something I notice.


I'm not really on anyones side here, actually I'm kinda confused on what the argument really is about, thus why I had to mention this haha, sorry.


[edit on 22-5-2009 by _Phoenix_]

I hope the mods can leave this post up please.

I'm going to bed so i won't be replying for a little while. I wanted to say that in case anyone thought i had run off See you all tomorrow and i'll reply to anything new then.

Cheers.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
It sometimes seems some of the replies to threads like this may be from women, who feel they for some reason need to defend women by focusing on the bad stuff men do instead. Instead of the topic of how some women can "also" do bad things.

Are you the Phoenix I know? The Brit kid? I will assume so and explain it to you.

Rape is very common, most rapes are never reported. For someone to stand up and imply that up to 50% of rape convictions are based on LIES is offensive. In fact the vast majority of rapes are never reported, they are dark little secrets. So to imply that WOMEN are victimizing MEN by the odd false accusation is upsetting to many women.

This thread reeks of misogyny. Yeah so there are "female friends" involved. So what. It still reeks of it.



[edit on 22-5-2009 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by Sonya610

Are you the Phoenix I know? The Brit kid? I will assume so and explain it to you.

Rape is very common, most rapes are never reported. For someone to stand up and imply that up to 50% of rape convictions are based on LIES is offensive. In fact the vast majority of rapes are never reported, they are dark little secrets. So to imply that WOMEN are victimizing MEN by the odd false accusation is upsetting to many women.

Yes I am lol.

I didn't read the 50% bit, but really where does that 50% come from haha, if somebody is lying, then we cannot know what the percentage of false rapes is!

We all know the horror of women getting raped, we hear it all the time, I assume the OP is simply focusing on the small other part of this topic, which people rarely talk about.

I see that he's implying that women are victimizing men by odd false accusations, but I don't see why that would be upsetting to women when he's saying that only SOME women are doing it, which of course is true, human nature, it is not a lie, right?

It's the same logic as a woman saying that some men murder women and lie about it.

Why should that personally upset me as a man, I am not that man, I am not the murderer, right?


[edit on 22-5-2009 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis

I really wish I didn't have to go...

because that's what it is about - the confusion about what it's really about

:-)

and please forgive me for that

LOL ok.



[edit on 22-5-2009 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
I see that he's implying that women are victimizing men by odd false accusations, but I don't see why that would be upsetting to women when he's saying that only SOME women are doing it, which of course is true, human nature, it is not a lie, right?

Read the first few posts. Apparently OP has MANY female friends, and discussed this with him, and they agreed that rape is a horrid and scary accusation (as is murder, and other felonies).

Then the OP goes on to say that he wonders if his female friends would accuse innocent men of rape if they were "pushed". Oh and after that he goes on to say his friends are "good people".

The implication is clearly that all women (even really good people that are friends) may lie and ruin a life by throwing around rape accusations. No men mind you, no boys, but WOMEN.

And the OP hangs out with them all the time, most of his friends are women. But the rape thing is still apparently paramount in his mind, the fact they (his good friends) would accuse innocent men of such if they were angry or disappointed.

Does that strike you as a bit....errrm.....????

[edit on 22-5-2009 by Sonya610]