I just have to wonder about the STATISTICAL LIKELIHOOD of either of these scenarios.

Number of woman raped worldwide?

vs

Number of men being falsely accused or convicted or rape?

I would bet the ratio is several thousand to one. Meaning for every guy that is "falsely charged" there are several thousand rapes worldwide that go unreported.

But yet the focus is on the false accusations and NOT on the brutal real life rapes?

[edit on 22-5-2009 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by riley

So if they worked you would think they could be used..?

If lie detectors were 100% then they'd be used in every case not just rape and yes i'd support them. At the moment however they are nothing more than voodoo, i know they are used in some court rooms but the entire thing is really sketchy. You can look that up on google and find out more, they really are awful things.

So basically you are all for seeing if a woman is telling the truth when she reports a rape? So should everyone who reports a crime do the same thing? Talk about adding insult to injury..

Originally posted by riley
Well the only rapes where violence isn't involved is statuatory and drunk/drugged rapes. These really do need to be assessed on their merits. Date rape is a very tricky one for example, of course if rohipnol or something of that nature is found in the girls system then it's a damn terrible thing. Drunken rapes are really difficult for courts and i would hate to serve on a jury over that kind of case. The flase rapes i quoted at the start though i believe were not drunk or drugged..

I agree the drink spiking/driunk ra[es a difficults and they rarely get convictions.

As for statutory rape, it's a really difficult one. I again bring up my friend of a friend who was almost convicted of having sex with an underage girl that he met in an over 18's nightclub. Should he be done for rape when he honestly believed she was 18 or over? That's a murky law and it must always be addressed on the individual case. However i can tell you now that if he'd been done his life would have been much different.

I can undertand why a 17 year old might be thoght to be 18 but when a girl is 16 she is going to sound like a 16 yo. Yes I think men should ask for IDs.. might sound silly to some but it's better than going to prison.

Originally posted by riley
I do not agree with the media going over board on alledged rapists but a fairer courtoom? Rape victims don't even have that.. they're still vilified on the stand so making it "fairer" on rape suspects would just screw over victims more.

You don't agree?

Remember "context"? I said I do agree the media should be under better contol but I do not agree the court system is fair on rape victims.

Well i simply mean police who have been coached, by psychologists to understand the language and body language used by rape victims. It would be a case of sitting specialised officers down in front of videos of real and false rape victims and studying them. The police actually record many interviews on video now, there is a massive database to draw on for such research. That would be a good start.

They are well trained in body language and are in fact good at detecting lies. To fool them you'd have to be a body language expert who knew how to put on a good act. I'm not sure why you would assume they do not know what they are doing. The police involved in the cases your posted obviously need to be trained properly but I do not know the specifics or why they stuffed the case up.

deleted in good faith.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by riley]

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Not really as again this was being discussed with a group of female friends and so i only thought of that.

Are your female friends frequently online? It would be great to get THEIR input on this thread. I bet they would find this topic fascinating. I think they would get a whole new perspective from this thread.

So much of this discussion is based on "what your female friends supposedly said" or more likely not what they SAID but what you think they would DO. But they are not here, and you only have the females on ATS to tell you what WE have heard and OUR reality with regard to the female opinion on fake rape charges.

Here is a question, for every guy that faces FALSE charges, how many real rapists do you think never get charged? All crimes have a conviction rate, wonder what that rate is for rape? This is about likelihood, the likehood of a woman making up false charges.

Originally posted by intrepid
Ok, it's 5 minutes since my last post. I will assume that by now it has been read by everyone. Any further posts personal in nature after this post will be deleted.

Just saw your post, but had just responded to some I missed because i just got home a lil while ago to see all the new ones. I should have checked first . My mistake. Delete what you feel appropriate to delete I was just trying to respond and defend myself.

I think my point of view was misunderstood.



So basically the OP made the mistake of over assuming how ofter it happens. But in a country of over 300 million people even if it is rare, that is still a lot of times it is happening just for the fact we have so many people.

It does not get reported all the time so I guess we will never know how much it actually happens.


At least we all can agree that it is probably the worst thing you can do to somebody, and that nobody should have to deal with it.

Woah, this thread gave me a headache.

I guess the R word really is powerful! haha

Anyway yeah some humans will lie, will manipulate, will attempt to destroy peoples lives, seek revenge, punishment in many ways.

There is no denying that this kind of thing happens, this and many other crazy things people do.

So yeah what are we arguing about here?

[edit on 22-5-2009 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by riley
So basically you are all for seeing if a woman is telling the truth when she reports a rape? So should everyone who reports a crime do the same thing? Talk about adding insult to injury..

Erm that is how the legal system works, at least in the UK. You provide evidence via testimony or empirical data to support your claim. Which country do you live in that uses a different system?

Originally posted by riley
I agree the drink spiking/driunk ra[es a difficults and they rarely get convictions.

Ahh i always manage to agree with someone on something However they do get convictions, usually due to people deliberately spiking drinks and it being shown as such.

Originally posted by riley
I can undertand why a 17 year old might be thoght to be 18 but when a girl is 16 she is going to sound like a 16 yo. Yes I think men should ask for IDs.. might sound silly to some but it's better than going to prison.

You are kidding right? I have seen 15 year olds that look 21, it is very scary. Luckily i don't ever go to clubs but if i ever had i wonder if i could have been in a similar situation. As for asking for ID, are you serious? I could be way out of touch but asking to see a girls ID before i take her home, in an over 18's club would seem a little odd to her i'm sure. Or a bar, i prefer bars but same thing. When she enters she is claiming she is 18 and that should be enough to cover any guy who hooks up with a girl there.

Originally posted by riley
Remember "context"? I said I do agree the media should be under better contol but I do not agree the court system is fair on rape victims.

I believe lawyers aren't fair on rape victims i'll give you that completely, they bully them on the stand. However i was talking about the jury who tend to view the accused as being bad simply for having the potential label of rapist.

Originally posted by riley
They are well trained in body language and are in fact good at detecting lies. To fool them you'd have to be a body language expert who knew how to put on a good act. I'm not sure why you would assume they do not know what they are doing. The police involved in the cases your posted obviously need to be trained properly but I do not know the specifics or why they stuffed the case up.

The police are very good at general body language. They however are not always good with dealing with rape cases, i know this because i know police officers. There are two things that worried me when they talked to me about rape.

The first was the lack of support for women who have been raped. I was disgusted to hear that it took 3 days for one woman to get a home visit after her initial report. THREE DAYS!

The second part is that in 2001 a study to show the definite differences between the body language and speech of real victims vs false reporters was done. This research hasn't really been carried over into the police force. Whilst there are specialist officers who deal with it, they do need better training. At the moment they are learning on their own and the problem with that is that if someone tricks them they then carry that knowledge over into other interviews.

Originally posted by riley
deleted in good faith.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by riley]

Why is my name quoted along with that comment ? ah I'll assume it was accident.


I'm done with this thread though, my pov wasn't really taken to well. I was just trying to add to it from personal perspective.


I think the whole false accusation depends on the personality type of the women doing it. Most women know that is such a horrible thing to do and nobody I know or associate with would even think to do that to anyone.

I'm assuming most women ( at least the ones I know or meet ) are good people and not some crazy weird person.

I totally agree that the ones that are really abused should live their whole lives in pain and silence and pay for all the cruelty they bring out these poor rapists. Shame on all us females being so rapable, hey but what about all the little boys that get raped, what happens when they scream Michael Jackson...don't they get a million bucks...how many never ever talk about this...It is so obvious to anyone intelligent who is the liar, I can sniff a manipulator out anytime, I am an endangered species, competence has been replaced with Idiocrasy.

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage

If you want to discuss the men then go for it, however the false accusations of rape in men are far less than women.

That doesn't mean that women are solely to blame for this issue. You're turning an issue about people (of both genders) falsely accusing others of a horrible act into an issue about women using the power of the "R" word. Whether you realize it or not, you are very specifically making this a gender issue.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

No i'm not i just didn't think of it as i'd been discussing it with women. I also addressed your points about men and encouraged you to continue the debate with men invovled. What more can i do to make it an issue about both sexes?

Men are less likely to report rape for a start, that's a fact. Second men are less likely to claim rape as it makes them look weak, fact. Third young children in the catholic church you mentioned do not count as that is paedophilia when we are discussing adult rapes.

So please tell me where i have avoided adding men in here once you bought it up? I didn't at the start for the express reason that i had been discussing it with women, about women.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis

and again - I wonder about this whole topic

why aren't we discussing false convictions - period?

why is this about rape - and the unfair advantage women have over men?

I already addressed this as well *sighs* because i was talking about this single issue with friends and had it humming in my head on the way home. Is that really so strange?

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984Ahh i always manage to agree with someone on something However they do get convictions, usually due to people deliberately spiking drinks and it being shown as such.

But then again perhaps the women keep Rohypnol in their medicine chest so they can frame innocent guys after the fact. Women are like that you know, do you think we would stop at fake rape charges? Nahh...a dose of Rohypnol gives us an advantage when we frame strangers in bars.