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The Power Of The "R" Word

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posted on May, 22 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by Sonya610
I think perhaps the Op bit off a more than he can chew. Not sure if he REALLY believed he would get a lot of folks openly supporting his position on this topic. LOL.


I never bite off more than i can chew
But hey thanks for insulting me and not sticking to the topic, well done.




posted on May, 22 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by Sonya610
 


:-)


I think perhaps the Op bit off a more than he can chew. Not sure if he REALLY believed he would get a lot of folks openly supporting his position on this topic. LOL.


yes

it could have been a completely different kind of discussion

if not for this:


I'm sorry ladies i mean no offense, rape is a terrible thing...


followed by this:


but so many women now are using this as an attack. A girl gets dumped? She cries rape to destroy the guys life. A guy tells a girl he isn't interested, her ego can't take it, she cries rape. A women gets fired, she can claim rape or assault and no company wants to go through that. A women wants revenge? Then a rape claim it is.


I'm sorry ladies...



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
I never bite off more than i can chew
But hey thanks for insulting me and not sticking to the topic, well done.


Oh it WAS in topic. The point being you are not getting the SUPPORT for your views on this topic like perhaps you expected too.

Or was that a threat? Will an Mod sweep down and warn me for being off topic? LOL. Happened darn quick before didn't it? Imagine that!

So to get MORE on topic I do believe most in the western world would NOT feel comfortable implying that women are vindictive and would jump at the chance to LIE about rape. And I think this stems from a basic resentment towards women rather than a legal issue of false charges being pressed. I will expand a bit further and say the very very few times i have heard men mention such "fears" they were typically men that were not errm...how should I say this....not enjoying the physical benefits of a lot of female attention.

There. On topic.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by Sonya610]



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by redhead57
Have you ever heard the saying "life just ain't fair"?

Rape is a terrible thing, it ruins lives and destroys families. I have seen this thing from many angles and it is terrible! Yet it is not any different than so many other things in life. Racism is terrible, but some use it as a trump card. Does that invalidate the evils of racism because some play it? NO!

I know people that for the rest of their lives carry the Sex Offender label because some young girl lied about her age, were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and some that damn well deserve it! IT sucks but life ain't fair and some people do get screwed by the system and nasty little girls crying rape. Guess what...a whole lot of women get screwed around by a system that won't believe them....

Life ain't fair, get over it and stop posting inflammatory threads.



I don't believe the comment I am about to post . I am against it, but just to prove you don't make sense here i will say it.


You said life aint fair..........Tell that to the rape victims

Does that apply to them too or just the people you choose?

You can't have it both ways.

If we are supposed to stop complaining about racism then you should stop complaining about rape.


You are a hypocrite.

If you were less emotional in your posts you would have caught that and prob not posted it.



Now that being said. Rape is HORRIBLE ! and nobody should ever have to go through that.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by Sonya610
Or was that a threat? Will an Mod sweep down and warn me for being off topic? LOL. Happened darn quick before didn't it? Imagine that!


Imagine it again. Keep to the topic people. It's NOT the members.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by riley
 



"Actually he said "many" which means he basically was saying that. "

Yea read about 3 lines above what you posted. You just said Don't make assumptions........And then you go and make an assumption.


I appologize if that comment was out of line. It was not my objective to know your history, I was actually trying to sympothize with you and be nice. so much for that.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by Sonya610
I think perhaps the Op bit off a more than he can chew. Not sure if he REALLY believed he would get a lot of folks openly supporting his position on this topic. LOL.


I never bite off more than i can chew
But hey thanks for insulting me and not sticking to the topic, well done.



she didn't insult you - not at all

and it is on topic - she's pointing out that you miscalculated how this thread would be received

I'm pointing this out now - not to insult you - or stray away from the topic

I'm hoping upon hope that you might see why it wasn't accepted the way you thought it might be accepted or understood



[edit on 5/22/2009 by Spiramirabilis]



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


That was not a generaliztion in the context of the rest of the post, consider i said earlier that

"I know this is only a small percentage of women doing this"



Originally posted by Sonya610
Oh it WAS in topic. The point being you are not getting the SUPPORT for your views on this topic like perhaps you expected too.


Actually i never expected a lot of support as to many people are scared to speak out about it, i also expected women to be quit upset, what i didn't expect is words to be twisted.


Originally posted by Sonya610
Or was that a threat? Will an Mod sweep down and warn me for being off topic? LOL. Happened darn quick before didn't it? Imagine that!


A threat? It happened because someone was derailing the thread. If you are upset by that then please contact the mod involved.


Originally posted by Sonya610
So to get MORE on topic I do believe most in the western world would NOT feel comfortable implying that women are vindictive and would jump at the chance to LIE about rape. And I think this stems from a basic resentment towards woman rather than a legal issue of false charges being pressed. There. On topic.


Ok on topic but sadly already addressed! I said SMALL PERCENTAGE OF WOMEN DOING THIS. Did you miss that part? If i have a resentment towards women then i choose my friends in a very odd manner since out of the 20 or 30 people i hang around with only 2 are men! And the 5 i consider absolute friends i can trust with anything are all women.

But hey continue the attacks, i expected as much.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
she didn't insult you - not at all

and it is on topic - she's pointing out that you miscalculated how this thread would be received


I'm pointing this out now - not to insult you - or stray away from the topic

I'm hoping upon hope that you might see why it wasn't accepted the way you thought it might be accepted or understood




[edit on 5/22/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

I expected it may upset some women, what i didn't expect was words to be twisted. That annoyed me a great deal, when i explained myself over and over and still someone doesn't accept how i meant it, that did annoy me i admit. I have no care how it is received, i post for the debate, that's all.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 04:47 PM
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Ok, it's 5 minutes since my last post. I will assume that by now it has been read by everyone. Any further posts personal in nature after this post will be deleted.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by Sonya610
 


in case this got lost somehow...thought it was worth saying again



...I do believe most in the western world would NOT feel comfortable implying that women are vindictive and would jump at the chance to LIE about rape...

...And I think this stems from a basic resentment towards women rather than a legal issue of false charges being pressed...




There. On topic.


yes, it was



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 04:49 PM
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edited out quote as just saw mod post.



Lie detector test? Absolutely not those things are flawed beyond belief!

So if they worked you would think they could be used..?

As for your suggestions that we drop photographs and rape kits you are again trying to be bombastic about things to try and trivialise the points made. The rape kits are brilliant for helping a case as are photographs. A combination of DNA and physical damage is hard to refute and the photographs can actually yield clues like knuckle spacing that just adds more evidence.

EXACTLY. It would be VERY hard to fake rapes where some violence is involved which is another reason why it's usually only these kinds of rapes make it to a courtroom.. there is not much chance of a false conviction simply because they need alot of evidence to make one in the first place to make sure it was not consentual.. otherwise it's just he says she says. I assume that means semen and bruising etc.



This is sad and i am well aware of the statistics. What i would say is campaigns also need to be done to encourage women to come forward. I find it very sad when a guy gets caught and women come out after 20 years of suffering with the event. Do not get me wrong, i am not trying to discourage rape reports, only encourage better education in the police, fairer hearings in the courts and a stop on the media reporting on accusations when criminal proceedings will be going forward.

I do not agree with the media going over board on alledged rapists but a fairer courtoom? Rape victims don't even have that.. they're still vilified on the stand so making it "fairer" on rape suspects would just screw over victims more.

I'm not sure what you mean with better educated police either. If they stuff up investigations and falsely charge people for anything they shouldn't be police at all.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by riley]



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 04:49 PM
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Thread notice:

This is a very sensitive subject- one that could easily be labeled taboo. However, please remember one of ATS' most famous guidelines: Attack the post, not the poster. By all means feel free to debate, critique, or refute the original premise or information of this thread but please refrain from making personal statements targeted against another member.

Thank You.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 




I expected it may upset some women, what i didn't expect was words to be twisted. That annoyed me a great deal, when i explained myself over and over and still someone doesn't accept how i meant it, that did annoy me i admit. I have no care how it is received, i post for the debate, that's all.


ok - then before this degenerates further - and in the interest of genuine debate - which of your words/meanings were twisted?



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 04:58 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by riley

So if they worked you would think they could be used..?


If lie detectors were 100% then they'd be used in every case not just rape and yes i'd support them. At the moment however they are nothing more than voodoo, i know they are used in some court rooms but the entire thing is really sketchy. You can look that up on google and find out more, they really are awful things.



Originally posted by riley
EXACTLY. It would be VERY hard to fake rapes where some violence is involved which is another reason why it's usually only these kinds of rapes make it to a courtroom.. there is not much chance of a false conviction simply because they need alot of evidence to make one in the first place to make sure it was not consentual.. otherwise it's just he says she says. I assume that means semen and bruising etc.


Well the only rapes where violence isn't involved is statuatory and drunk/drugged rapes. These really do need to be assessed on their merits. Date rape is a very tricky one for example, of course if rohipnol or something of that nature is found in the girls system then it's a damn terrible thing. Drunken rapes are really difficult for courts and i would hate to serve on a jury over that kind of case. The flase rapes i quoted at the start though i believe were not drunk or drugged..

As for statutory rape, it's a really difficult one. I again bring up my friend of a friend who was almost convicted of having sex with an underage girl that he met in an over 18's nightclub. Should he be done for rape when he honestly believed she was 18 or over? That's a murky law and it must always be addressed on the individual case. However i can tell you now that if he'd been done his life would have been much different.


Originally posted by riley
I do not agree with the media going over board on alledged rapists but a fairer courtoom? Rape victims don't even have that.. they're still vilified on the stand so making it "fairer" on rape suspects would just screw over victims more.


You don't agree? Take a look at any media coverage of a rape case that turns out to be false. In fact it'll be easier to do if you just read the papers and wait for one to come along. Watch the press vilify a guy over and over and when he's proven innocent he'll get a small apology, tucked into the back pages about the size of a postage stamp. This is why i also support the idea that any apology in a newspaper should be as large and cover the same pages as the original accusation.


Originally posted by riley
I'm not sure what you mean with better educated police either. If they stuff up investigations and falsely charge people for anything they shouldn't be police at all.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by riley]


Well i simply mean police who have been coached, by psychologists to understand the language and body language used by rape victims. It would be a case of sitting specialised officers down in front of videos of real and false rape victims and studying them. The police actually record many interviews on video now, there is a massive database to draw on for such research. That would be a good start.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by Spiramirabilis

ok - then before this degenerates further - and in the interest of genuine debate - which of your words/meanings were twisted?


I explained this several pages back, please go and look as i pointit out quite specifically.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 05:06 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 05:11 PM
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"what are you - 12?

you should be ashamed to have included this little dollop of inappropriateness in a thread about something as serious as what you're suggesting

what exactly is it that you're worried about - really?

are you saying we should start taking claims of rape less seriously?

how are we supposed to fix this little problem of the apparently inherent dishonesty of women and their ability to use it to bring you down?"




No I'm 24 actually. And I included it to show how girls with certain personalities can lie about things that do not happen. As in I was showing how it just doesn't happen in fake rape claims but in general, so while there may not be a ton of false rape cases, women still toss around lies to look better themselves.

This relates exactly to this topic because the topic involves women making false claims against men and men having to defend themselves for no reason.

Maybe it is you who are 12 and can't handle the topic of sex.

Did me posting about a sexual incident offend you? did it make you uncomfortable?

It is reality ! and sometimes reality is not so nice to us.
It's not my fault you choose to block out certain topics in this reality we call life.

If you can't related the two then it is far from my fault.

Please explain again why I should be ashamed of myself?

I did not brag about sexual exploits or degrade this young women I had sex with. I am actually on decent terms with her now because she has matured a bit.

Thanks for coming in here just to make me look bad when in fact I tried to be as gentle as possible with the topic.

If you can't handle the topic then go read another thread, there are thousands of them.

For some reason this keeps looking like one big quote but only the top portion is. I can't seem to fix it. So mods please don't think I'm exessive quote....After the quote marks near top the rest is my post.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by LucidDreamer85]

[edit on 22-5-2009 by LucidDreamer85]

[edit on 22-5-2009 by LucidDreamer85]






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