Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by riley

Actually he said "many" which means he basically was saying that.

No sorry this has to stop now. I said few use it but many know the power of it. I know the power of that word as well as a man. You i'm afraid are simply to emotional to realise what was meant by that,you leapt upon it unfairly. I am NOT saying most women have or will claim it, i am saying most know the power of it. Those are two different things and if you continue down this path of taking my quote out of context then you only damage your own arguments.

Unfairly..? YOU are the one who said it not me. Misunderstanding perhaps but you chose the phrase and the context I read it in was very understandable given you posted "many" examples.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by riley]

Originally posted by riley
Unfairly..? YOU are the one who said it not me. Misunderstanding perhaps but you chose the phrase and the context I read it in was very unterstandable given you posted "many" examples.

Riley i will say it again as you seem unabel to grasp it. I said many know the power, not that many use it. You need to take a step back, calm down and realise it was not meant in the way yo think it was. I have explained how it was meant and you still cannot accept it. I would say this is because you are just to emotional about the topic, which whilst understandable is not excusable. Please do not continue to twist how i meant something, it is unfair and dishonest in a debate.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by riley
Unfairly..? YOU are the one who said it not me. Misunderstanding perhaps but you chose the phrase and the context I read it in was very unterstandable given you posted "many" examples.

Riley i will say it again as you seem unabel to grasp it.

I said many know the power, not that many use it. You need to take a step back, calm down and realise it was not meant in the way yo think it was. I have explained how it was meant and you still cannot accept it. I would say this is because you are just to emotional about the topic, which whilst understandable is not excusable. Please do not continue to twist how i meant something, it is unfair and dishonest in a debate.

Unable to grasp it? This is my last response to you. I had just conceded that it may have been an misunderstanding yet you put the "you're just being emotional" spin on it DESPITE your claiming YOU and other men are all afraid of being accused of rape. So you are allowed to be emotional then yet people who disagree with you aren't? YOU posted a thread about how "many women when pushed know the power of this little word." They are your words. Why would they have to be pushed to realise the power of a word unless.. you meant in vengence? Nice attempt at backtracking.

and please stop crying as though you did not expect to get contrary reactions from your dramatically titled OP. It's about women falsely accusing men of rape.. very few women even report rapes because all women know they will get crucified in courts if they do. You are perpatuating myths that false rape convictions happen alot.

..even though you said they don't.

Edit. and yeah if a guy is about to sleep with a woman from a night club and he's not sure if she's legal he should probably ask to see some ID. The "not being sure" part should be a red flag for most men.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by riley]

Originally posted by riley
Unable to grasp it? This is my last response to you. I had just conceded that it may have been an misunderstanding yet you put the "you're just being emotional" spin on it DESPITE your claiming YOU and other men are all afraid of being accused of rape. So you are allowed to be emotional then yet people who disagree with you aren't? YOU posted a thread about how "many women when pushed know the power of this little word." They are your words. Why would they have to be pushed to realise the power of a word unless.. you meant in vengence? Nice attempt at backtracking.

You cannot maybe concede it. Either you misunderstood or didn't. Simple fact is you did misunderstand what i was saying, if i didn't put it clearly enough then sorry but i mentioned it a few times after and only now do you concede that maybe you misunderstood it.

I never said we are allowed to be emotional and you aren't, what i said was that your emotions are clowding your judgement, that can be seen by the way you misunderstood something i said in all innocence. You're projecting what you think is being said onto what is being said, that is the difference.

I was not backtracking at all so let me once again clarify. When pushed, yes i mean vengeance, absolutely, however i did not say most women WOULD use it. I said FEW women use it. You are quote mining.

Originally posted by riley

and please stop crying as though you did not expect to get contrary reactions from your dramatically titled OP. It's about women falsely accusing men of rape.. very few women even report rapes because all women know they will get crucified in courts if they do. You are perpatuating myths that false rape convictions happen alot.

..even though you said they don't.

I expected reaction, just not ones that took something i said and abused it to their own ends. Half of that original page is wasted and i doubt anyone will read beyond it so well done, your goal was achieved. I also did not perpetuate anything, only pointed out it seems more common. More common is not the same as happens a lot, however even one false convictions is bad. Also you missed the entire point of the thread, it's not just about convictins, it is about the damage that an accusation can cause because of the power of this word. About the fact that when a woman throws this word out then the man she accuses is completely destroyed because he does not get a fair hearing.


I would again like to apologise to anyone i offended with this thread. It was absolutely not my intent and never will be my intent. It was a thread amde in a very serious manner, about a very serious topic that i raelly thought needed to be discussed. Many people are fearful to discuss this because accusations tend to be thrown around when it is. As has been seen here.

I notice you didn't respond to the situation i described about the nightclub, you after all bought up stat rape.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
I expected reaction, just not ones that took something i said and abused it to their own ends.

I read your posts and you honestly sounded like you were actually trying to meet me halfway.. yet then you just voided it by accusing me of abusing your words to my own ends.

Do not talk about me playing fair if you aren't going to do it yourself.

I'm done with this thread. be happy for it.

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
I expected reaction, just not ones that took something i said and abused it to their own ends.

I read your posts and you honestly sounded like you were actually trying to meet me halfway.. yet then you just voided it by accusing me of abusing your words to my own ends.

Do not talk about me playing fair if you aren't going to do it yourself.

I'm done with this thread. be happy for it.

Oh for heavens sake, i met you halfway and just explained why i was annoyed with what you had put. If you're done fine, this little back and fourth will have sealed the fate of the thread anyway *sighs*. I guess hoping for a careful debate on such an issue will never work as someone will always derail it. guess i'll keep that debate for real life as the intentions of a statement don't always come across well on the internet.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
I expected reaction, just not ones that took something i said and abused it to their own ends.

I read your posts and you honestly sounded like you were actually trying to meet me halfway.. yet then you just voided it by accusing me of abusing your words to my own ends.

Do not talk about me playing fair if you aren't going to do it yourself.

I'm done with this thread. be happy for it.

Oh for heavens sake, i met you halfway and just explained why i was annoyed with what you had put.

When you meet someone half way you don't turn around and tell them they were abusing your words for their own ends.

If you're done fine, this little back and fourth will have sealed the fate of the thread anyway *sighs*.

..and there you go again. I did not trash your thread.. take some responsibilty for your own behaviour. You posted a very inflamatory thread so it shouldn't be a surprise that there are flames in it.

I guess hoping for a careful debate on such an issue will never work as someone will always derail it. guess i'll keep that debate for real life as the intentions of a statement don't always come across well on the internet.

Derailed it did I? Sorry but I've been very ontopic even though you are now not. If others do not post do not assume it is my fault.. maybe it's the OP that'll put people off.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by riley]

Enough riley. Refrain from derailing this thread further.

Originally posted by Ace High
For a very public example of this just look at the Duke Lacrosse scandal. There was a great book written on the case, It's Not About the Truth: The Untold Story of the Duke Lacrosse Rape Case and the Lives It Shattered by Don Yaeger. An entire team of players reputation was ruined, death threats sent to them, etc. When in the end there was nothing to it.

That case was a real mess. That crazy victim had claimed TWICE before she was kidnapped and raped and those incidents never happened. I think the prosecutor was disbarred over that wasn't he? They did something to him.

But the La Crosse case was a politically driven frame job. If it had been 4 black college athletes accused of gang raping a white stripper the media would have tried to bury the story.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by intrepid
Enough riley. Refrain from derailing this thread further.

I was actually on topic until I was told to defend my opinions.

edit. yeah I know I shouldn't have bothered defending myself with this post.
I would just hope people remember that it is a minority of rape convictions that are false.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by riley]

Originally posted by Ace HighYes, the book I mentioned was a very interesting read. The case became very political very fast.

A large group of professors paid to have full page ads against the lacrosse team, many of which were there own students, most have yet to apologize even after the case was dropped due to the claim being fabricated.

And notice in many of the Ops newsarticles the females faced CHARGES and did PRISON TIME.

In the La Crosse case? She had done this TWICE before, and she didn't even get a slap on the wrist. She is still "the victim" poor dear.

But then again some people have special status I guess.

Originally posted by riley
edit. yeah I know I shouldn't have bothered defending myself with this post.
I would just hope people remember that it is a minority of rape convictions that are false.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by riley]

I don't believe anyone ever said that false convictions were in the majority, we all know it's the minority. The point i was originally making is that when accused mens lives are destroyed, when in court their trials are not always fair due to public opinion when they hear the word rape, and some women have used this as a way of getting back at guys they don't like for whatever reason. I know that the false convictions are the minority, however in my humble opinion, 1 is to many and no studies have been done to see exactly how many of these cases are false convictions because no one will ever fund that study due to the power of this word and the sensitive nature of the material.

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Firstly i am not disagreeing with myself, nearly all of my friends are female and this post comes shortly after a conversation where they were all very frank about knowing the power of that word. One even called it a trump card. They all said they would never use it, but if pushed i wonder.

I'm not sure what class of people you hang around with but I have not heared it being abused in such a way.

Yeah I have never know ANY females that joked or mentioned using anything like that at all. I have known some that WERE date raped and did not report it (as is usually the case) even when it was perpetrated by near strangers, but never is it ever joked about.

Women have plenty of VERY candid conversations about sex and men, if this was considered a good "threat" among some female circles I wonder why I have never encountered it. I can only imagine other women would be FURIOUS to even hear someone imply they would make false accusations as punishment. Rape is a serious thing and we do not joke about it.

Perhaps he does hang out with the wrong crowd.

Originally posted by Sonya610

Perhaps he does hang out with the wrong crowd.

Unfair, very. My friends are decent and kind people. They did not say they WOULD use it, only they understood the power of it. Again i see myself being misquoted. When my friend said a trump card she didn't mean she would use it only that others have and would.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Unfair, very. My friends are decent and kind people. They did not say they WOULD use it, only they understood the power of it. Again i see myself being misquoted. When my friend said a trump card she didn't mean she would use it only that others have and would.

You said YOURSELF you wonder if they would do it if "pushed". But they are super nice people? What does that mean? Nice people will bring false accusations that could ruin other people's lives if they are "pushed"?

Not in my world. Decent people in MY world do not come up with horrendous lies, or perger themselves, or commit crimes by filing false charges. To each their own I suppose.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by riley
edit. yeah I know I shouldn't have bothered defending myself with this post.
I would just hope people remember that it is a minority of rape convictions that are false.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by riley]

I don't believe anyone ever said that false convictions were in the majority, we all know it's the minority. The point i was originally making is that when accused mens lives are destroyed, when in court their trials are not always fair due to public opinion when they hear the word rape, and some women have used this as a way of getting back at guys they don't like for whatever reason.

You are implying that rape cases are not fair? Judges and juries are chosen so they are not tainted by public opinion.

I know that the false convictions are the minority, however in my humble opinion, 1 is to many and no studies have been done to see exactly how many of these cases are false convictions because no one will ever fund that study due to the power of this word and the sensitive nature of the material.

This is where I have a problem. You say "yeah know they're in the minority" then you backflip and say how there are no studies like you doubt the statistics? Why would there be?

If there is evidence that suggests a woman lied and filed a false report then yes he should be cleared and compensated.. but it sounds like you are suggesting rape cases be studied to see if they're real even if they've been convicted? wtf? Are you suggesting these cases get reoppened just because a woman lies occasionally ..? The "power of the word rape" has NOTHING to do with them not studying it.. it is about victims rights. If someone has a problem with a verdict they can appeal the decision.. it is not the victim who is on trial.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by riley]

Originally posted by Sonya610
You said YOURSELF you wonder if they would do it if "pushed". But they are super nice people? What does that mean? Nice people will bring false accusations that could ruin other people's lives if they are "pushed"?

Not in my world. Decent people in MY world do not come up with horrendous lies, or perger themselves, or commit crimes by filing false charges. To each their own I suppose.

By pushed i mean if someone really upset them, maybe the love of their life dumped them or something would they use such a thing? In that context it isn't about good or bad people, it is about people doing stupid stuff when they are emotional, irrational. It really has nothing to do with being decent. Yes some women are horrible and would use it for revenge at the drop of a hat, most of course wouldn't. That is however what i meant by "pushed".

I'm sorry but you can live in your world and be happy with thinking that certain people can never do bad things. It is however wrong, when pushed hard enough, people will do bad things. That isn't simply cynical, it's backed up by history and psychology.

Originally posted by riley
You are implying that rape cases are not fair? Judges and juries are chosen so they are not tainted by public opinion.

Juries are public and therefore biased. Whilst they are supposed to be neutral, they generally aren't neutral about rape. People hear rape and immediately judge, generally speaking.

Originally posted by riley
This is where I have a problem. You say "yeah know they're in the minority" then you backflip and say how there are no studies like you doubt the statistics? Why would there be?

If there is evidence that suggests a woman lied and filed a false report then yes he should be cleared and compensated.. but it sounds like you are suggesting rape cases be studied to see if they're real even if they've been convicted? wtf? Are you suggesting these cases get reoppened just because a woman lies occasionally ..? The "power of the word rape" has NOTHING to do with them not studying it.. it is about victims rights. If someone has a problem with a verdict they can appeal the decision.. it is not the victim who is on trial.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by riley]

Firstly you cannot compensate a guy for this, that is the point. It is the point you are missing. The simple accusation is enough to last a lifetime, even when cleared it hangs around someones neck. The same with accusations of paedophilia, it will never go away.

I would not say reopen, i would say there needs to be a study to fully view the statistics because as far as i'm aware there is not a set of statistics that shows the convictions rate vs the false conviction and false accusation rate. It just hasn't been done, unless you can link official government figures for me in which case i will happily read them.

You talk of appeals but you again miss the point! Once accused, once taken to the police station and questioned and all your friends and family and work friends hearing of this, your life will never be the same. I have read about guys who have gone through this and it is utterly terrible. Oh and the alledged victim is on trial, that is part of the trial when these question the alledged victim. The lawyer questions their story and all that.