The Bible bill?, page 2

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 10:28 AM

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Originally posted by chise61

Look at how many blacks voted for Obama simply because he was black.

What's your point?
Let's be as absent-minded as those we condemn?
if they do it we should too?

Can give a few specific examples of the "Christian beliefs" that they pander to ?

mentioning god or jesus

thinkprogress.org...

liberalvaluesblog.com...

what did Paulin say?

Pray for our military. Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right for this country - that our leaders, our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God," the Alaska governor said in her address

lockeloli1848

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 10:42 AM

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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
I don't know how many people you know in the bible belt
But I work for a consulting firm and have several clients in that region.
I speak to them daily and they all talk to me about how things are.

For example there was a drought in SC and the city told them not to use alot of water and told restaurants to only offer water to cliens if they asked. Then it rained and a fairly big crowd of people were claiming it was thanks to god lol.

So many other stories as well, you'd be surprised you'd think you were hearing about a village in a 3rd world country.

Having spent many years of my life in Oklahoma and Texas [the western part of the bible belt for those unfamiliar] I've experienced my fair share of religious fanatics. However, to imply that the entire mid-west to south eastern quadrant consisting of the bible belt in the U.S. would pose a serious threat to the government at this point in time would, as priorly mentioned by blueorder, be a bit of an exaggeration.

Where were these countless republican-christian-fundamentalists when McCain lost the election? I would think that they would have all gotten out to vote and over throw the government with how you appear to be painting America to be.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Unfortunately not

And this is not only about bible belt voters either

The mere fact that you don't oppose this bill yourself says alot
This is nothing more than a distraction

I agree that it is a distraction.

Also, I was wondering if you could show me the quote where blueorder said that they don't oppose the bill. I couldn't find it. I figured since you seem to have read it somewhere you could just quickly quote it for me.

Bunch

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 10:45 AM

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Originally posted by chise61

Can give a few specific examples of the "Christian beliefs" that they pander to ?

Now you got to be intellectually honest to have this kind of debate. You know by now that ALL politicians pander to the Christians for their vote, specially Republican politicians.

They USE christians and pander to them to then get into power and do things that no right minded christian would do. While they appease Christain's with meaningless things like the 10 commandment debate, and the gay rights debate and the abortion debate, and the creationism debate, they USE that same Christian vote to invade other countries, killing thousand upon thousand of innocent civilians, inflicting pain and suffering into hundred of thousand more.

Church should try to separate itself from government if you ask me, because they become pawns that get used to elect people that at their heart don't hold the same Christian values that those who gives them their vote have.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by Bunch]

[edit on 22-5-2009 by Bunch]

[edit on 22-5-2009 by Bunch]

ModernAcademia

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 10:49 AM

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Originally posted by lockeloli1848
However, to imply that the entire mid-west to south eastern quadrant consisting of the bible belt in the U.S. would pose a serious threat to the government at this point in time would, as priorly mentioned by blueorder, be a bit of an exaggeration.

I was wondering if you could show me the quote where I said that the ENTIRE bible belt is what i was referrencing as opposed to just "many people". I couldn't find it. I figured since you seem to have read it somewhere you could just quickly quote it for me.

Also I don't understand what you want me to point you towards, regarding what blueorder said or something?

blueorder

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 10:52 AM

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there will never EVER be a separation of church and state, because the state is made up of individuals from the state, many of whom happen to be religious, without even getting into the wider point that they will be nurtured in a civilisation (in the case of the west) which emerged from a Christian identity- like I say, fundamentalism is a bad thing, but so is dogmatic and unrealistic comments about religon evaporating from public life

ModernAcademia

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 10:59 AM

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Guys, take a look at this:

In the days surrounding the U.S. invasion of Iraq, cover sheets-like the ones in this exclusive GQ.com slideshow-began adorning top-secret intelligence briefings produced by Donald Runsfeld's Pentagon. The sheets juxtaposed war images with inspirational Bible quotes and were delivered by Runsfeld himself to the White House, where they were read by the man who, just after Septmeber 11, referred to America's war on terror as a "crusade."

Source: men.style.com...

Originally posted by blueorder
there will never EVER be a separation of church and state, because the state is made up of individuals from the state, many of whom happen to be religious, without even getting into the wider point that they will be nurtured in a civilisation (in the case of the west) which emerged from a Christian identity-

Whites become minority in Kansas county

FINNEY COUNTY, Kansas (CNN) -- U.S. communities are changing complexion as ethnic diversity grows in the American heartland.

Though not new in California, Arizona, Texas or Florida, the change of demographics is a bit more surprising in southwest Kansas.

www.cnn.com...

A wise man once said Never say Never!

Originally posted by blueorder
like I say, fundamentalism is a bad thing, but so is dogmatic and unrealistic comments about religon evaporating from public life

Who said religion should evaporate from public life?
Who said we should abolish sunday church?

All that i'm saying is that religion and politics do not mix.

But unfortunately it does mix, just not to your benefit.
It helps corrupt people get elected by distracting you.

blueorder

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 11:03 AM

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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Though not new in California, Arizona, Texas or Florida, the change of demographics is a bit more surprising in southwest Kansas.

A wise man once said Never say Never!

be careful what you wish for, those immigrants are not coming from secular societies, your "diversified" dream, may end up a nightmare

[edit on 22-5-2009 by blueorder]

ProtoplasmicTraveler

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 11:07 AM
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Though I am agnostic and do not believe that many of the Christians ideals or philosophies are particuarly sound ones I can definately see why they would want to make 2010 the official year of the Bible.

If I understand correctly how the majority of Christians practice the religion you can...lie, cheat, steal, committ acts of violence Monday through Saturday and if you go to Church on Sunday and say...

S-O-W-W-Y

It all better!

Sounds like most of our politicians to me.

blueorder

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
All that i'm saying is that religion and politics do not mix.

they will always mix, that is my point, to some degree or other

But unfortunately it does mix, just not to your benefit.
It helps corrupt people get elected by distracting you.

you promote the changing face of Arkansas as evidence this corruption will end- where are these immigrants coming from, and do you REALLY think the US is worse for corruption than the lands they came from

I don't think corruption is aided by Christianity, if people are Christian they will know that a corrupt politician is not actually pandering to Christian values.

Bunch

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by blueorder

You got a point there...specially if we talk about the hispanic population, I'm hispanic and I know for a fact that we tend to be more conservative and religious than the white christians here.

The thing is that Republicans haven't found a way YET to pander to this group. But once they learn the "how to" it could be even worse than now.

chise61

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

What's your point?
Let's be as absent-minded as those we condemn?
if they do it we should too?

No my point is that there are people in almost every walk of life that are guilty of voting for candidates simply because they identify with them, so if you're going to condemn one group for doing it then condemn all of them.

thinkprogress.org...

This link is not a specific example of politicians pandering to Christians, it is simply one politician attempting to justify his belief in the death penalty when asked about it.

liberalvaluesblog.com...

This link also is not a specific example of politicians pandering to Christians, it is simply an example of one politician stating his own personal belief that his God helped him gain favor with the voters.

what did Paulin say?

Pray for our military. Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right for this country - that our leaders, our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God," the Alaska governor said in her address

And just exactly how is this pandering to Christians

blueorder

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Though I am agnostic and do not believe that many of the Christians ideals or philosophies are particuarly sound ones I can definately see why they would want to make 2010 the official year of the Bible.

If I understand correctly how the majority of Christians practice the religion you can...lie, cheat, steal, committ acts of violence Monday through Saturday and if you go to Church on Sunday and say...

S-O-W-W-Y

It all better!

Sounds like most of our politicians to me.

I think that only works if you are genuinely repentant, and I don't think that applies to politicians..........

groingrinder

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by Tyler 720

I am all for a "White History Month" just to balance it out. No doubt Al Sharpton and other racists would have people up in arms about it though.

I am against a "Year of the Bible" Bible thumpers have their say all year long. Everywhere you look they are pushing their agenda of Armageddon on those of use who would prefer to live. They need no special year. We are all well aware of their suicidal beliefs.

blueorder

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by BunchYou got a point there...specially if we talk about the hispanic population, I'm hispanic and I know for a fact that we tend to be more conservative and religious than the white christians here.

The thing is that Republicans haven't found a way YET to pander to this group. But once they learn the "how to" it could be even worse than now.

thanks for picking up on it- I'm not using it as a stick to beat Hispanics with, just recognising, as you have, that they tend to be more conservative/religious than local white Christians.

The Democrats got into identity politics in the 1960s and have basically sewn the black vote up on the back of that, they currently have the Hispanic vote, but that could change if the conservatives could align themselves better with the hispanic religious/conservative tradition.

(not overly keen on talkin about people as "groups", but there are certain distinct trends)

lockeloli1848

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
I was wondering if you could show me the quote where I said that the ENTIRE bible belt is what i was referrencing as opposed to just "many people". I couldn't find it. I figured since you seem to have read it somewhere you could just quickly quote it for me.

Also I don't understand what you want me to point you towards, regarding what blueorder said or something?

I believe that I distinctly said:

Originally posted by lockeloli1848
However, to imply that the entire...bible belt
This time I made the important part bold. Note the difference between my saying something such as "to imply" and someone else saying something such as...

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Unfortunately not

And this is not only about bible belt voters either

The mere fact that you don't oppose this bill yourself says alot
This is nothing more than a distraction

I'll be more direct this time. In my original post I was simply trying to point out that I was unable to find any evidence of Blueorder [the person you were talking to in the above quote] stating that they were in favor of the bill. I suggested implication, you stated something to be a fact. I want the evidence of this alleged fact regarding Blueorder's position on The Bible Bill.

Edited segment:
Good night everyone, it's time for bed for me. I will try and check back here this evening. Feel free to message me in case this particular topic becomes overwhelmingly discussed and I somehow miss anyone's response to a post I may have made. Further discussion is ALWAYS welcome.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by lockeloli1848]

Soldat401

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 11:23 AM
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Just wanted to add my 2 cents. First of all, I guess I would consider myself a borderline atheist/agnostic. I'm not sure what to believe. I don't have a problem with the idea of god, I mean something had to kick this whole thing off. Even if you believe it all started with the big bang, what caused the big bang? You can only explain things through science up to a point.

Anyways, I'm getting off track. My problem with a bill like this is that our country should not be endorsing any one religion, even if the majority of people subscribe to it. The bible is just another book written by man, thousands of years ago. Nobody can prove it is true. Just like no one can prove that the beliefs of Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. are true. We're all just hoping that we believe the right thing so that we will be rewarded in the next life.

I think the President set a powerful example by celebrating National Prayer Day in private this year. Although many people may have a problem with this, people need only look back in history(or the current Middle East situation) to see the dangers of government-sponsored religion.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by Soldat401]

chise61

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by Bunch

I agree with your entire post, especially when you say that churches should seperate themselves from politics, because yes there are politicians that pray on certain beliefs only as a means to gain power.

I thank you for an intelligent reply.

I simply have a problem with those that seem to group all Christians together and attempt to paint a picture of them as bible thumping zealots who all hold the same extremist beliefs.

Just to be clear on this i do NOT support this bill or any other bill that attempts to bring any religion into politics, except for what is already there, ie the guarantee of religious freedom for all.

chise61

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Whites become minority in Kansas county

FINNEY COUNTY, Kansas (CNN) -- U.S. communities are changing complexion as ethnic diversity grows in the American heartland.

Though not new in California, Arizona, Texas or Florida, the change of demographics is a bit more surprising in southwest Kansas.

www.cnn.com...

A wise man once said Never say Never!

So what are you trying to say with this ? Are you saying that only whites are Christians ? Beacuse that sure is what it looks like.

ModernAcademia

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 11:44 AM
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who was that evangelist that endorsed Giuliani?
how many religious figures endorsed anti-war candidates?
Exactly!

One bad thing is to mix religion with politics
an even worse thing is if that religion is an abrahamic one!

All abrahamic religions were/are always about conquest
It's truly disgusting to say the least

Thinking needs to become popular again!!!

dreaken1993

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 12:07 PM
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this is straight unconstitutional and down right prejudice to have a country endorse a religion is the worst thing that can happen, a bible year, how stupid is dude why isnt there a torah or quaran day, religion should never mix with state or politics cause most likely the politicians use the peoples religious beliefs to get power then say # it and do exactly opposite of what those peoples beliefs are, this is more ignorant then black history month i see no reason for a certain group of people to half a certain amount of time, and oppose to popular belief many founding fathers werent even Christians

but you have to wonder what other bills are they trying to pass at this same time, you know distraction is usually the best way to pass stupid things look at the patriot act