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Obama's call on photos saved lives

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posted on May, 22 2009 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by HulaAnglers
 



Due to your showing of porn pics and trying to pass them off as real US Soldiers Rapping a women your crediblity is shot as well as any links your provide.

And this link you gave for the dead body count is also false; the Iraqi government gives another number, when you seek information to justify your views you are going to find it.

Of course the world knows that a handful of American Soldiers acted unprofessional and abused Iraqi prisoners. Those soldiers were punished, what part of that don’t you understand? The photos and videos in the governments possession is just more evidence of those soldiers and Iraqi military abusing detainees.

What really baffles me is I do not hear any of you speaking out against American POW civilian and military who were captured and executed. Were they not supposed to be giving the same rights? I doubt there stay in Terrorist custody wasn’t as pleasant as there stay in American Custody. Releasing those photos serves no purpose but to give terrorist leaders another propaganda tool to recruit.




posted on May, 22 2009 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by Chevalerous
 


Sir, I greatly appreciate your gesture, if you have something you would like to say you can U2U me, and we can discuss it that away. I am by no means pro government at all or anyway, I do however love my country and would die for the idea of it. The next war I will fight will be against any form of dictatorship that comes to my nations shores.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Chevalerous
 


The next war I will fight will be against any form of dictatorship that comes to my nations shores.


How many countries has the United States invaded since WW2?



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by HulaAnglers
 



.What does this have to do with the false pictures you have tried to float around as the truth? The topic of this thread is about Obama not releasing the pictures. Please stay on topic.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 02:22 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 03:07 PM
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Obama's call on photos saved lives...At the sad cost of many many more innocents every day.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by HulaAnglers
 


you are right he did save innocent lives, if he would have released those photos, you could have expected more car bombs going off, a resurgence of violence in Iraq, violence throught the middle east and heay muslim populated countries in Europe, and even possible another attack on American Soil.

I dont care to much for the President, I give him his respect when its do and this is one of those times. Good Job Lord Barry.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Chevalerous
 



On topic portion:

The pictures being censored will not save American/Allied Interest lives. Pulling out of those regions definitely will save lives. The leaders of these organizations have repeated this notion to, yes, MSM correspondents ever since we had the false flag to go ahead and invade. Don't get me wrong, Saddam was a psycho - anyone can agree. He killed soccer players for sucking. But who put him there in the first place? Who gave him the training he needed? Sad, but true. I really do think it's funny when anyone puts another in a position they can gain benefit from... then the opponent somehow has 9 pawns, or the pawn becomes the entire opponent. Definitely makes good comedy.

Censorship is rediculous in any way shape or form - yes parents of kids who watch 'too much' uneducational TV/listen to music you can cry now. It denies reality, which leads to ignorance - always. This is the first static concept of our reality which never fails. Those organizations in the Middle East don't kill us because we show the stuff we are doing there. They kill us because of the stuff we are doing there, and this does not pertain to any single scenario, ie torture... They kill us just because we are there. Plain and simple. This is not anti-anything. It is simple logic when someone tells you they will kill you because you are there that they would kill you because you are there, no? I mean, if a killer tells you why he killed someone, whether he had something wrong in his head or not, he probably wasn't lying to you about his beliefs.

Since your entire post was off topic, and demanding of others to be on topic, there you go. Heres the off topic portion, mostly directed to you:

1. Where does the constitution say that torture is acceptable? That cruel or unusual punishment is ok? Sure I have to take a waivering stance on this. I'm quite certain that cruel interrogation leads to more information garnered. But torture appears to me to be cruel, or at the very least unusual. Why hasn't 9/11 been even officially investigated since professors of physics, law officials, gov. officials, fire dept. officials, other nations, internet detectives, etc. have proven the original official investigation to be impossible on most accounts, let alone not torture those who are "deemed by us" to be 'potential terrorists' - such as the patriot act in conjunction with DHS lexicon(s) potentially can accomplish? Hence unusual punishment. Sorry.

2. Sometimes when, like now, groups of individuals (such as a party in power, etc.), who are in control, attempt to obtain more control. It is one of two static concepts discussed here that I have realized about reality we can count on. Documents, such as the Patriot Act, so contradict your assessment of Constitution = Law in America. Taking away guns, in any form, from Americans is just another.

3. I don't want to see my America fail. America can't fail, at least so long as 200-250 million citizens own guns - NO ONE will dare invade us and take from us which we supposedly (and I question this concept of the masses today) hold sacred: our Constitution.

America can lose, though. And yes, since pulling out would be a loss to the egotistical beings most of you are, and since loss = failure under the same egotistical observation... I guess you can make your egotistical assumptions of my intentions.

I want to see Big Fail businesses fail. But this won't happen because those who know what's best for us keep giving on a green paper platter your kids, my kids, my neighbor's kids to countries like China, France, Spain, etc. Unless I'm wrong, and they are just giving us to debt holders, and these businesses are still failing. That would be comedy.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by shanerz
 


1.) While pulling out will save lives Allied forces will not for atleast a few more year. So releaseing those photos will incite more violence. Look at when the Dutch released cartoon pictures of the prophet as well as when the Abu Garib pictures were released.

2.) Censorship is not riduclues when it has the abilty to save lives, in the future after troops our out of Iraq I am all for the release of those photos, but not while American and Allied Forces are at an all to critical point in Iraq, there is no need to incite more violence.

3.)We can debate the legality of the war all you want but the fact still remains that for the time being American Forces will stay put in Iraq and theres nothing anyone can do about. So why incite more violence with these attacks. Allied forces have the bad guys on the run lets not offer them a recruiting tool.

Congress (left and right), DOJ, and the Bush Adminstration said that waterboarding was not unconstitutional, It is now popular to attack it because the left is in charge. ( Nancy Pelosi being a good example.)
I find it hard to belive that a goverment that has bankrupted this nation is capable of being behind of the 9-11 attacks, they may have let it happen but I doubt there smart enough to plan and carry them out considring those plans would eventually been seen by eyes who may not be sympathic to there cause.

I to agree that the patriot act is a cancer on america as well as polotical parties. Dems and Repubs they only care about there pockets. I do not want to see my country run home with its tails between its legs like Vietnam because the goverment is to cowardice to continue the fight, I will agree with you that there needs to be a major change in America and not the type obama and the dems or the repubs say they will bring to us.


I love this country with all my heart, soul, and being. If you try to harm it I will get you as well as millions of other Americans just like me, we can agree on this. This is a message to anyone who wants to destroy America and our Beloved constitution, " Come get it"



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 06:10 PM
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Listen my dear friend and brother in arms!

Censorship in any way is totally wrong!

If you can't grasp this basic part of human democracy you're doomed!



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by Chevalerous
 


Would you allow your children to veiw porn? Would you allow them to view and watch things that can and will be harmful to them? And this is not a democracy this is A repubulic



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by Chevalerous
 




Double post please delete.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by poedxsoldiervet]



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Chevalerous
 


Would you allow your children to veiw porn? Would you allow them to view and watch things that can and will be harmful to them? And this is not a democracy this is A repubulic


No pal!

Of course not! chlidren should never see what their fathers have seen!


But I also think *shrugh* this information need to get through!

There's no need to show thesepictures to whole the world in public as long we are workinig with the work of Law here.

No one in the public need to see these awful pictures!

But we! the world citizens can't have peace in our minds before we see some trials rolling!

All they have to do is to start a trial with observers from Asia - Eu and the rest of the blood-suckers!

Then we have fair play!

Isn't this what America is about?


[edit on 23-5-2009 by Chevalerous]



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by Chevalerous
 


As much as that would be nice it isnt going to happen, you know as well as I do the rich and powerful protect each other. Its been that way since moses was in diapers.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by sunny_2008ny

Obama's call on photos saved lives


www.cnn.com

The president's decision last week to fight the release of dozens of photographs depicting the alleged abuse of prisoners in detention facilities in Afghanistan and Iraq was more than just a political decision. It was a decision that saved lives.

By fighting the release, President Obama put the safety of our troops before the demands of an activist agenda, and Americans should thank him for it.

When photos surfaced of abuse at Abu Ghraib in April 2004, violence dramatically spiked in Iraq
(visit the link for the full news article)



Just to clarify.
What this says is that it's important to cover up crimes to avoid repricussions of said crimes.

The photos WILL get out at some point and everyone knows that.

If obama really wants change, he will first release the photos, then REQUIRE investigations into anyone involved.

The photos will not cost lives. Let's put blame where it lies.
1. Those who instructed the abuses to take place, are the ones responsible for costing lives.
2. Failure to investigate these abuses will also cost lives.
3. Finally, failing to convict those responsible will also cost lives.

Put the blame where it lies, not with pictures as the pictures did not abuse anyone.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


In case you dont know, the idiots who commited these crimes have been or soon will be in jail, there is no need to make this pictures public. If tehy decide to use them in a court of law or military court to convict one of these Idoits then do it in the court not on TV and for god sake do not allow the world to see them until our troops are out of harms way. Regardless of popular opinion here on ATS these will kill soldiers who had nothing to do with it, if some of you are willingly to risk soldiers lives over this, then why dont you pick up a rifle and take shots at them eh?



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Chevalerous
 


As much as that would be nice it isnt going to happen, you know as well as I do the rich and powerful protect each other. Its been that way since moses was in diapers.


Oh my dear young friend!

No one keep your safe in the battle field , but yourself!

Sorry for asking this, but how old are you my friend?

[edit on 22-5-2009 by Chevalerous]



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 08:03 PM
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reply to post by Chevalerous
 


I am 27 years old, I spent 7 years in the miltary where I spent 5 years in combat areas.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 09:29 PM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by shanerz
 




The old Abu Ghraib photos were released to the public on April 28 of 2004.news.bbc.co.uk...


Index of Casualties of Iraq war:
icasualties.org...

According to this, deaths of US soldiers in April, 2004 were at 135. But is this a result of photo exposure?

January = 47 deaths
February = 20
March = 52
April = 135
May = 80
June = 42

Yet between March 26, 2004 and April 26, 2004
Total deaths: 266
Hostile death: 122

Between April 26, 2004 and May 26, 2004
Total deaths: 83
Hostile deaths: 68

(Following references are in .PDF)
March:www.globalsecurity.org...
April:www.globalsecurity.org...
May:www.globalsecurity.org...

In fact, as you see, the numbers suggest that the increase in violence happens before the release of the photos. If you want to speculate based on these numbers, you can say people declined to fight against the US after the pictures were released. But I'm sure it was used as propaganda, yes... But the numbers show that this propaganda wasn't needed, and was, as I - a non-professional on this kind of thing - believe, over powered by the societal- and psychological-environmental influences on youth of that region.


September 20, 2004: Judge rules 87 unseen pictures of Iraqi inmates abused by US troops should be released.

Aug: 54
Sep: 66
Oct: 80
Nov: 137

Now this Nov uprising is followed by 78 deaths in Dec. and 107 in Jan. After which, numbers fall back more into line. I dont know, but I'm willing to bet on Religious purposes for a hike in violence. Don't know what muslims got for that time, but Christains have... well, Christmas. Again, don't quote, I'm no expert.


Feb 15, 2006: Australia's SBS TV broadcasts previously unpublished images.

Jan, 2006: 62 deaths
Feb, 2006: 55
Mar, 2006: 31
Apr, 2006: 76

Again, it appears we have no real initial increase in violence due to new photo exposure. I did not correspond the dates of the "prophet" scenario, maybe someone else might want to substantiate their claims?

My conclusion: I really do not see a huge overall advance in violence further down the line, due to photo exposure. Yearly violence seems to stay the same from 2004-2007, then we see a down turn in violence. Enemy numbers wearing thin? Now you can say that they will be desperate and use more photos as propaganda, but as you will see, the effects of the initial photo exposure is not substantial proof of increased violence in the Iraqi struggle.

Off topic: Determined individuals losing their army? Kinda interesting to see what will happen in the next couple years. My advice, pull out. Take our losses, get over the fact we "failed" to take out a person killing his 'subjects'. We "failed" to take out a lot of psychopathic individuals. "Failed" to set up a place where people can vote for their leaders. After all, we have Israel to make sure nothing goes terribly wrong right? We have satellites, we have stealth bombers, etc. We can keep the nuclear facilities safe. The Iraqi police we trained, by the way, are meant to defend it's citizens - that's not where our tax cash is going to. It went to the establishment of that new society, and rightfully so, imo. And it is also my opinion that after 6 years and a monthish, those police forces should be able to hold their own. Give em guns, ammo, give all the voting citizens guns, and let them decide what they want, etc..

I'm glad you decided to relax a bit, calling names and such gets us nowhere. And maybe I am wrong, like I said - I'm no expert.

*Edit for bad paragraph location.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by shanerz]



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Chevalerous
 


I am 27 years old, I spent 7 years in the miltary where I spent 5 years in combat areas.


Well this explains some things for me , I have almost forgot how I was at 27.


Yeah! age do a lot of things to a man!

[edit on 23-5-2009 by Chevalerous]




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