Atheist congregation meets every Sunday morning to discuss how they've rejected organized religion

reply to post by Hemisphere

This meetup is for Atheists to gather and socialize without having to defend themselves.

That is from this group mentioned in the article.meetup.com's athiest group
It is just strange, i have never seen an athiest in a position where he had to defend himself. I think it is more a meetup for atheists to gather and socialize without offending others.

I can understand why people of like mind and like situation would want to meet up. It's nice for the children and for the adults.

reply to post by The Mack

Indeed you are correct but one guy goes because:

The group, Harris said, provides him an opportunity to be himself. "You don't have to walk on eggshells," he said.

and although I am agnostic not strictly atheist I understand what he is saying here, I went to a catholic college in the UK and when certain people decided to talk about their religion I had to bite my tongue and consider their beliefs. I don't and didn't mind doing this but it did make me feel I couldn't be myself for fear of offending them and even though I am not inclined to hold religious beliefs I respect their right to do so.

If you wonder why I'd need to bite my tongue it's that my agnosticism formed after a lot of reading and contemplation on the subject of Gods and religious texts and ideally I'd like to talk about what I believe and don't believe and why and why not respectively just like my catholic associate freely did at college but its not really that welcome in most situations I've found myself in. Which is a real shame.

Some of those with faith find it hard when faced with people of no faith, especially when that persons life is so dependant on their faith and it can be awkward for those of no faith to be around those of faith for this reason. It's not nice to know your having this effect on people around you. Oh and its not just faith/no faith its also any belief/lack of that belief, vegetarianism for example or people of different religions.

As I've said I can understand why people would want to meet up with people who are like minded.

Here is my two cents:

Watcher already gave the definitions of religion and they bear repeating:

Religion: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe...a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects...something a person believes in and follows devotedly.- Webster’s

Many in atheism attempt to fit scientific research into their faith to support atheism. This is the very thing that upset Einstein so much and is upsetting so many scientists of today.

This is evident by Richard Dawkin's book: "The God Delusion."

"My dream is that this book may help people come out...the easier it will be for others to join them. There may be a critical mass for the initiation of a chain reaction." -Preface

"If this book works as I intend, religious readers who open it will be atheists when they put it down." Page 5

His peers have labeled him "The Pope" for his evangelizing of his atheistic faith. It is not an uncommon thought anymore that; atheism is now considered a religion. The fact that many here are refuting it, matters not at all. It is becoming a universal thought.

Add to this: religion does not call for a God to be distinguished as such. Look at Buddhism! It is a very established religion without the concept of God.

Here are characteristics that CAN define atheism as a religion:

Its doctrine: evolution.

Its scripture: the many skeptic magazines, online websites, and books.

Its churches: skeptic meetings.

Its prayer: chanting; "God does not exist!" "Prove that God exists!" Etc.

Its leaders: Many such as; Richard Dawkin's, Christopher Hitchens, Charles Darwin.

Its clergy: teachers in schools, and professors in colleges & universities.

It is a case where words take on new and different meanings and adapt with the age. It certainly is not changed by a few here on ATS that deny this reality.


Anyway you look at it, the world is filled with boxes, and very few get out of them.

reply to post by Darth Lumina

You're comparing Weight Watchers with any other religion, including Atheism? I think you're the one who's got something to think about.

I chose weight watches merely as an example of the fact that like-minded people can meet, discuss, and theorize on a subject.
Unlike say Alcoholics Anonymous or N.A, where people are at there weakest, subjected to domga, weoght watchers dont have the dogmatic, bow to a God element.
So, the simularity to WW and Atheists is they are 2 groups that dont have a set dogmatic regime, yet, both follow a common belief structure.
And following the precepts of what you have previously posted; If Atheism is designated a religion, well so should weight watchers then

reply to post by KRISKALI777

I chose weight watches merely as an example of the fact that like-minded people can meet, discuss, and theorize on a subject.

Although many things can be called a religion, this is a stretch!

How does WW relate to the cosmos and set belief systems?

AA & NA do not have set dogma but some can make a religion out of it by creating rules such as: do service work. Or "Do the next right thing."

Yes, God is a focus in those programs and it has worked well for more than 60 years. As a matter of fact, those who generally have the most difficult time staying clean and sober are those who cannot accept the concept of God.

reply to post by MatrixProphet

I chose weight watches merely as an example of the fact that like-minded people can meet, discuss, and theorize on a subject.

Although many things can be called a religion, this is a stretch! How does WW relate to the cosmos and set belief systems? AA & NA do not have set dogma but some can make a religion out of it by creating rules such as: do service work. Or "Do the next right thing." Yes, God is a focus in those programs and it has worked well for more than 60 years. As a matter of fact, those who generally have the most difficult time staying clean and sober are those who cannot accept the concept of God.

Matrix you've got me wrong. Nobody of sound mind could obviously call WW a religion.
I was simply drawing a comparison for DarkLumina, to show that essentially WW or a group of Athiests meeting with each others: do not automatically become religions.
These 2 groups are lacking dogmatic ideology, as well as ritual content ( as sacrement ).

well AA and NA are bad examples as they are not atheist friendly

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become
unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to
sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we
understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature
of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make
amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do
so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly
admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with
God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us
and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to
carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our
affairs.

See there is alot of god talk and i think Richard Dwakins is the only one allowed to talk about god.

and CuriosityStrikes im sorry but if you are not catholic and you go to a catholic school you have nobody to blame but yourself for feeling uncomfortable.

It was interesting there is a wiki called encyclopedia dramatica and they make fun of EVERYONE no exceptions, nothing is sacred on there. They have articles that make fun of every religion but the Atheist one has more "butthurt" editing than all the other religion pages combined. I think it is because the entire atheist way of thinking involves trolling others hard but going into a science induced rage whenever someone does it to them. Everyone know of Stalin,pol pot and Kim Jong-il? That is what happens when you let an atheist run a country.
Now for some funny Richard Dawkins quotes

This is historically a Christian country. I'm a cultural Christian in the same way many of my friends call themselves cultural Jews or cultural Muslims.

"Christmas and the celebration of Christmas in this country, though it is a religious festival, is one in which people who are of no religion - or other religions - can share."

Text

reply to post by The Mack

Everyone know of Stalin,pol pot and Kim Jong-il? That is what happens when you let an atheist run a country.

You left out Adolf Hitler!
Hitler had higher belief, Pol Pot was raised as Buddhist, and spent time as a monk cant speak for the other 2 though.
Anyway, you are quoting leaders whom where communist- not essentially Atheists. There's a big difference. because they followed the marxist political model for national ideology, does not mean that they didn't enjoy their own beliefs behind closed doors.

reply to post by KRISKALI777


Okay is this better for you

When you let an atheist run a country they normally follow the teachings of Karl Marx (who was also an atheist) and enjoy killing their own people. But don't get me wrong, im sure these guys were probably really into the jesus thing when they were not killing their own people.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by The Mack]

eh, they got a church already, it's called public school

sorry, but i couldn't help it. ever notice how nearly everything taught in public school is deliberately taught from the atheist perspective? the reason given is that to not do so, would isolate out groups that aren't from a religious perspective and make them feel unwelcome. so their solution is to isolate out all religious perspectives and make them feel uncomfortable. problem is, ecumenism is not the answer either because then, we end up with is a new religion composed of all the old ones put together, which would be totally unhistorical, not supported by archaeology or any other ancient history.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by undo]

reply to post by The Mack

But don't get me wrong, im sure these guys were probably really into the jesus thing when they were not killing their own people.

Well I suppose when you're killing infidels, as a penance to Church and God, as well as inforcing various inquisitions- that makes the Church the good guys
I seem to remember an event that happened in Waco Texas; where ATF officers executed a whole community because their religious leader was apparently a peadophile.
But I suppose that was Gods will?

Would it be less of an organized religion if they only met every other Sunday? Are they telling each other what else they should believe? do they threaten each other with eternal damnation if they don't conform? I honestly don't get the analogy. some of them meet every sunday or so, how does that make them an unacknowledged religion? My basketball club plays a game every wednesday. Does that make us a religion? Is the offense in their meeting on sunday? Hepl me out here.

reply to post by KRISKALI777

i was saying into the jesus thing because you said

because they followed the marxist political model for national ideology, does not mean that they didn't enjoy their own beliefs behind closed doors.

No it does not make them the good guys, i was just pointing out that the ratio is kinda 1 to 1 as far as athiests being horrible leaders of countries. what in the hell does waco have to do with this?

[edit on 22-5-2009 by The Mack]

reply to post by The Mack


You sarcastically quoted that communists, when not worshipping Jesus, were killing their own people.
My point was that you dont have to be communist to kill your own people....that was why I wrote of Waco Of coarse not on the same scale, but maybe a test-model.

reply to post by The Mack


waco is definitely a bad example to use.
those poor people. ugh. it was after reading the entire story, including the coroner's report, that i began to realize that religious freedom was alot more important than i had originally thought which drew my attention to the dilemma of the native american ritual using illegal substances, that apparently was also under fire...least they didn't end up with their reservations burnt to the ground.....with the kids still in the buildings.

Originally posted by Darth Lumina

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown
Atheism is not a religion. Even if it was what difference would it make really? You get to go to church and instead of just bashing atheists individually now you get to bash the "Religion" of atheism? Does that really seem worth all the fuss? This is an argument over semantics and it is completely useless.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by ExistenceUnknown]

Oh it doesn't actually make a difference, nor do I actually care. The title of the thread is hilarious and it is obviously ironic, not to mention, very "religious" of them. So I guess I decided to have a little bit of fun but still have a good discussion about it without hitting below the belt. My opinion really is that Atheism is a religion, regardless of what the dictionary definition of a religion is, and as I stated before, to me a religion doesn't need a god, nor any church, commandmants, etc. To me if it is in the category of religion or it is a religious issue (such as atheists trying to separate themselves from the god believers) and get together to discuss their beliefs, then to me it's a religion. As I said in an earlier post, I like conversating with Atheists more than I do any god religion.

That what most of you missing. These people do not get together to discuss their reliefs. The just hang out like a family and friends picnic. It is a community of like minded people, not a religion. Religions all worship something. atheists worship nothing.

I don't believe in god in a religous way. I do believe there is a higher powers in the universe. If the earth was created by some entity, then that entity was probalby also created by another entity. Somewhere there has to be a top dog entity. I just don't think that entity is very godly in the religous way. To advance, if we do advance, I think you need to have more socialistic views than the average religous person has.

reply to post by undo


Yea those guys got a bad deal, but that could be a whole thread by its self.

reply to post by undo

waco is definitely a bad example to use.

Hi Undo, it was actually me that used the example of Waco.
I just wanted Mack to see that democratic Governments are capable of slaughtering their own people also.

Interesting thread.......

In time there will probably be further meetings and then distant groups will communicate and someone will inevitably step forward to "organize" the meetings then ultimately chair them or lead them. I am sure religion starts similarly. Pamphlets, door to door, organizations etc etc etc.

The public school comment was interesting as I grew up in the public system and was taught evolution, science and all things you can see, feel and touch.

there was no mention of god or creationism or religion for that matter in a learned manner. Most lessons involving religion were historical references as the protestants did this or the catholics did that. Doctrine was never mentioned or taught.

reply to post by KRISKALI777


Yes because a botched ATF raid is soooooooooo much like a ruthless dictator with killing fields.

Atheists constantly piss and moan about how religious people say that they can't be moral. But if they don't believe in anything, why do they care about morality? Trying to prove this to an atheist will result in a 10-page rant about how morals are natural and are pre-programmed to keep us from murdering our families, friends and neighbors for their delicious cake. Nevertheless, the atheist will fail to realize that nobody cares, and will keep on ranting until the listener gets bored and walks off or stops reading. Those who aren't busy posting in threads about the deeper meanings in the lyrics of System of a Down also seem to like to vlog it up on the YouTube and cry about how they are being mistreated by the evil "xians". - Anonymous

[edit on 22-5-2009 by The Mack]