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New Archbishop engulfed in Catholic abuse row for praising 'courage' of guilty clerg

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posted on May, 21 2009 @ 04:10 PM
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]New Archbishop engulfed in Catholic abuse row for praising 'courage' of guilty clerg

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New Archbishop engulfed in Catholic abuse row for praising 'courage' of guilty clergy
www.dailymail.co.uk...
By Daily Mail Reporter Last updated at 2:38 PM on 21st May 2009

Victims of child abuse in Ireland's state and church-run institutions today blasted the new leader of Catholics in England and Wales for praising the courage of clergy who came clean.

The Archbishop of Westminster, the Most Rev Vincent Nichols, who was formally installed at a ceremony in London, said a harrowing catalogue of sexual, physical and emotional torture, uncovered in a nine-year inquiry, should not be allowed to overshadow the good work of priests and nuns.

He also angered victims by calling for abusers to be charged - even though the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse was founded on the basis of immunity.

The Irish Survivors of Child Abuse (Soca) branded the Archbishop's remarks outrageous and demanded he back a Vatican inquiry into the Irish abuse.
Most Rev Vincent Nichols

Praise for guilty clergy: The Most Rev Vincent Nichols, center, arrives at the Westminster Cathedral in London for a service to be installed as the 11th Archbishop of Westminster today

Soca spokesman John Kelly said: "That is the challenge today on his installation as Archbishop of Westminster - will he advance the cause of justice and help bring closure to this appalling scandal?"

The Ryan Inquiry detailed the abuse of thousands of children by religious orders from the 1940s until as recently as 1995, when one of the last institutions closed.

It implicated 800 priests and nuns in systematic rapes, beatings and neglect - none will be prosecuted.

Responding to the report yesterday, Archbishop Vincent Nichols said it was distressing and disturbing but praised the courage of orders and some clergy in Dublin for examining the abuse.

Only one order, the Rosminians, was praised by Commission chairman Judge Sean Ryan for its work in attempting to understand the abuse as well as document it.


Quote:
More...
* Child abuse brought home: The 80-year-old whose only happy memory was being given a glass of milk
www.dailymail.co.uk...
* Revealed, six decades of 'ritual' child abuse: Catholic schools and orphanages damned in report
www.dailymail.co.uk...
* 'I told a lie and the nun beat me repeatedly with scissors': Child abuse victim reveals his horror past
www.dailymail.co.uk...

* Betrayed by us all: Sustained abuses at nine religious orders exposed
www.dailymail.co.uk...

The Christian Brothers, which ran the largest number of institutes, only agreed to drop legal challenges and give evidence to the Commission after a deal was done not to name and shame the abusive clerics.

Mr Kelly said: "It is an outrageous statement to make, suggesting that the Christian Brothers were very brave in coming forward. That will cause more hurt to victims.

"The Religious Orders ran to the safety and sanctuary of the Ryan Inquiry knowing full well that their guilty evidence was granted privilege and immunity."
John Kelly, from the group Survivors of Child Abuse, protests at not being allowed into the hotel for the launch today

John Kelly, from the group Survivors of Child Abuse, protests at not being allowed into the hotel for the launch yesterday

A spokesman for Archbishop Nichols responded to the criticism from victims.

"Archbishop Nichols has unequivocally condemned all abuse. He said his heart went out to all those who had been abused and that the perpetrators of abuse should be held to account," the spokesman said.

"He clearly said that where offences demand such action, the perpetrators should face legal and police processes."

He added: "The really courageous thing is for the victims to stand up and tell their stories which will require them to relive that pain. That is the truly courageous action."

Soca called for Pope Benedict to convene a special Consistory in Rome to investigate the abuse and deal with the perpetrators.

President Mary McAleese praised the victims for having the courage to tell their stories, describing their suffering as an atrocious betrayal of love.

Children at work in one of the notorious Magdalen asylum, earlier this summer

Please find below the URL for an organisation called SNAP = Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests. It contains harrowing details of the global nature of this kind of abuse


snapsurvivorsnetwork.yuku.com...

The main site is below

www.snapnetwork.org...

ALSO READ
www.oneinfour.org...

My god we have Bishops denying the Holocaust, Jesuit Priests doubling as Nazis, Bishops praising child abusers is it any wonder people have no trust for this Abomination?




posted on May, 21 2009 @ 06:50 PM
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Is there a conspiracy in here somewhere, or is this just another of your 'slam the Catholic Church' threads?

Either way, could you please provide the direct quote where he praises the courage of the perpetrators of the injustice?

And am I reading this right in that you are offended that he believes that legal action should be taken against the offenders?

Eric

[edit on 21-5-2009 by EricD]



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by EricD
Is there a conspiracy in here somewhere, or is this just another of your 'slam the Catholic Church' threads?

Either way, could you please provide the direct quote where he praises the courage of the perpetrators of the injustice?

And am I reading this right in that you are offended that he believes that legal action should be taken against the offenders?

Eric

[edit on 21-5-2009 by EricD]


It certtainly is a conspiracy when their will be no one brought to justice!
The Bishop priased men who abused children for god sake saying they were courageous.

Maybe they could have been even more corageous and handed themselves into the authoritys rather than hiding behind their evil deeds!

I wonder if the children that were abused would call their abusers courageous or use other more stronger words.

The Bishop should have been condemming them but you expect this behaviour from Roman Catholic Clergy they are looking after their own after all and not for the first time.

Why do you post against me are you trying to defend the indefensible?


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news.bbc.co.uk...

Irish abused 'cheated of justice'

Victims spokesman John Kelly gives his reaction to the report
Victims of "endemic" child abuse at Catholic institutions in Ireland have expressed anger that a damning report will not bring about prosecutions.

The report, nine years in the making and covering a period of six decades, found thousands of boys and girls were terrorised by priests and nuns.
__________________


[edit on 22-5-2009 by orangeman dave]



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave
The Bishop priased men who abused children for god sake saying they were courageous.


.... courageous for coming forward and admitting to what they had done in order to try to make some sort of restitution (impossible) and to take the punishment that is owed them.

You forgot that part.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by orangeman dave
The Bishop priased men who abused children for god sake saying they were courageous.


.... courageous for coming forward and admitting to what they had done in order to try to make some sort of restitution (impossible) and to take the punishment that is owed them.

You forgot that part.



So that makes everything ok? Why did they not admit to the Police when they done it and showed some real courage! Their is no punishment comming to them read my above thread that the victims will not see their abusers convicted its their in black and white.

You must have forgot to read that part!



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave
So that makes everything ok?

I never said it was. I was just showing that you only posted what you want others to see ... and not the entire story.

BTW .. interesting anti-Catholic signature you have.
And it's in all caps as well. YELLING your anti-Catholicism.
How interesting ...



"OUR CLERGY PERSECUTED AND OUR PROTESTANT CHURCHES DESECRATED ALSO OUR PROTESTANT PEOPLE KILLED IN THEIR THOUSANDS" OLIVER CROMWELL

"CATHOLOCISM IS MORE THAN A RELIGION IT IS A POLITICAL POWER THEREFORE IM LED TO BELIEVE THAT THERE WILL BE NO PEACE IN THE LAND UNTIL THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS CRUSHED" OLIVER CROMWELL


As an anti-catholic protestant you should know that protestant clergy also abuse children and those in their parishes as well, AND that children in public schools are many more times likely to be abused then those in Catholic schools.

Keep that in mind next time you are on an anti-Catholic rant.

Or is that an inconvenient truth for ya'??



[edit on 5/22/2009 by FlyersFan]



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by orangeman dave


Why do you post against me are you trying to defend the indefensible?
[edit on 22-5-2009 by orangeman dave]


So, asking you to actually provide the quote in question is me trying to defend the indefensible? Interesting argumentative!


Once again, can you please provide the actual quote?

Eric



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
BTW .. interesting anti-Catholic signature you have.
And it's in all caps as well. YELLING your anti-Catholicism.
How interesting ...


Interesting deflection,....

Any rules against this? Anything to do with the thread? Are you a "Christian Brother" yourself?

How interesting,...


As an anti-catholic protestant you should know that protestant clergy also abuse children and those in their parishes as well,


Sad, but true. The Catholics are by far the leaders in this category however, and the OP is discussing a current event which is most certainly related to Catholics. Face the facts. Pedophiles in the Catholic Priesthood, never heard that before, no precedent here,... [sarcasm]


AND that children in public schools are many more times likely to be abused then those in Catholic schools.


OK I call BS on this one, I need sources for this outright lie. Wow, pull those blinders on tight!



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 03:01 PM
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My signature is telling of the crimes the Catholic Church comminted hundreds of years ago by killing Protestants by burning our Churches and Burning people at the stake.

The same Church today is still comminting attrocities and covering them up today.

When someone posts the heinous deeds the Roman Catholics always comeback and say Anti-Catholic this that and the next, quite sad really that you can't condemm them for their wicked deeds but rather focus on deflecting attention away by calling me Anti-Catholic. Or by saying it happens in all Church's yeah maybe some isolated cases but not to the extent of the Rc Church plus i dont think the offenders get sent to other parishes to continue with their abuse and it gets swept under the carpet!

This shows that the Catholic Church is the biggest Paedophile ring in the world if you want me to show some statistics i will?

The top of the Church should be accountable as with the rest of the hierachy.

I'm not Anti Catholic indeed i have never said anything about Catholics i have mearly highlighted whats going on if im Anti-Catholic what are the Priests and their Masters?



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 04:01 PM
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I'm always concerned when I comment on a thread such as this. Let me start out by saying that any abuse of a child anywhere at any time is wrong. Categorically.

The priests who have molested children should have been defrocked and castrated. I can't be any more clear than that. The shuffling of the accused and obfuscation by those in the hierarchy was (and is) shameful.

That being said:

1) The OP states that child abuse doesn't happen at the same rate in other churches. In actuality, it may be a significantly greater problem in Protestant church's.

In an authoritative study by Penn State professor Philip Jenkins, Pedophiles and Priests, it was determined that between .2 and 1.7 percent of priests are pedophiles. The figure among the Protestant clergy ranges between 2 and 3 percent

Philip Jenkins, Pedophiles and Priests (New York: Oxford University Press), pp. 50 and 81.

“Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers.”

Mark Clayton, “Sex Abuse Spans Spectrum of Churches,” Christian Science Monitor, April 5, 2002, p. 1.

2) I still haven't seen the actual quote in question. I'm waiting for the OP to present it.

3) The OP seems to take umbrage at the title of 'anti-Catholic' and seems to equate people asking for direct attribution and clarification to defending what he believes to be the indefensible.

Of the 10 most recent threads the OP has created, 7 are anti-Catholic. The other three may contain anti-Catholic sentiments, but I couldn't be bothered to read them. There were no other religious groups discussed. No Buddhist threads, no Hindu threads, no Mormon threads. Telling, isn't it?


Eric



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by EricD
Of the 10 most recent threads the OP has created, 7 are anti-Catholic. The other three may contain anti-Catholic sentiments, but I couldn't be bothered to read them. There were no other religious groups discussed. No Buddhist threads, no Hindu threads, no Mormon threads. Telling, isn't it?


Telling indeed. Telling me his research has led to similiar conclusions to my own.

Telling me he sees the RC Church as the same Cesspool I see.

To put it in the nicest possible way, I am not interested in the Catholic faith anymore.
I am not a fan of Mel Gibson, Mother Teresa, or the current Nazi Pope.

It is all about being in control of the masses. Now carry on with Telling your damage control.

Sorry to get in the way. I hope these monsters pay the ultimate price, but it is unlikely they will ever face justice. That is not the Catholic way. History proves me correct.

[edit] for clarity

[edit on 22-5-2009 by UrsusMajor]

[edit on 22-5-2009 by UrsusMajor]



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 05:05 PM
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EricD and Flyers, the OPs anti-catholic credentials are manifest in not only his signature but his nickname. You may be unfamiliar with British politics but "orangeman dave" is undoubtedly one of those members of the Orange Institution who's raison d'etre is to ensure Queen and Country remians free from the influence of popery. Cromwell is a great hero as his campaign of genocide in Ireland insured good protestant planters had some land to move onto once they'd finished slaughtering their fellow English men and a multitude of bonnie scots.

Alas I fear this thread and others is not out of a concern for the victims but is a further abuse of their names and stories in the cause of villifying the Catholic Church. The "I'm not anti-Catholic" line is a familiar one usually soon followed by "I have friends who are Catholic" and "it's not Catholics I object to its the institutional Church."

We might ask Orangeman Dave how welcome some of these victims would be in certain parts of Glasgow wearing an Irish football shirt and speaking with an Irish accent?

Of course the scandal of clerical child abuse is an offense against nature which cries out to heaven for vengeance, that in these cases it was against orphans. As the Catholic Catechism reminds us:


The catechetical tradition also recalls that there are "sins that cry to heaven": the blood of Abel, the sin of the Sodomites, the cry of the people oppressed in Egypt, the cry of the foreigner, the widow, and the orphan, injustice to the wage earner.


The Irish Church should have been better prepared to deal with such crimes given the experience of the Kincora Boys Home in the 1970's which was run by Loyalist leaders as a "brothel" for pederasts.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by UrsusMajor
Interesting deflection,....

Actually YOU are deflecting. I addressed his entire post and therefore my 'BTW' comment was completely appropriate.


Any rules against this?

It's not against the rules to tell another member that they may be breaking the rules. And the OP COULD be by having a signature that is hate-speech in all caps.


Are you a "Christian Brother" yourself?

Sister. Not brother. And that's irrelevant anyways.


The Catholics are by far the leaders in this category

Wrong. Public schools are the leaders BY FAR in this category.


Pedophiles in the Catholic Priesthood,

Good. You said it correctly. Pedophiles in the Catholic Priesthood and not priests who are pedophiles. There is a difference. Pedophiles see good hunting grounds and enter the priesthood, the ministery, the public school systems, etc ... they use these things as cover to go hunting.


OK I call BS on this one, I need sources for this outright lie. Wow, pull those blinders on tight!

Tsk tsk tsk .. you really shouldn't call others liars ... especially when they are right. Wanna' apologize? You definately owe me one.

Sex Abuse by Teachers Worse Than Catholic Church


According to a draft report commissioned by the U.S. Department of Education, in compliance with the 2002 "No Child Left Behind" act signed into law by President Bush, between 6 percent and 10 percent of public school children across the country have been sexually abused or harassed by school employees and teachers.

"So we think the Catholic Church has a problem?" she told industry newspaper Education Week in a March 10 interview.

To support her contention, Shakeshaft compared the priest abuse data with data collected in a national survey for the American Association of University Women Educational Foundation in 2000. Extrapolating data from the latter, she estimated roughly 290,000 students experienced some sort of physical sexual abuse by a school employee from a single decade—1991-2000. That compares with about five decades of cases of abusive priests.

Such figures led her to contend "the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests."


Abuse in Public School Ignored


“[I]n both actual numbers and percentages, sexual abuse of children by teachers, coaches, and employees in public schools exceeds anything that occurred in Catholic institutions,” they continued, claiming that sexual abuse of children in public schools is still occurring in “significant numbers,” in contrast to Catholic institutions.

According to the Nussbaums, expert Prof. Carol Shakeshaft told Education Week magazine “The physical sexual abuse of students in [public] schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests.”


Sexual Abuse Statistics


Originally posted by orangeman dave
My signature is telling of the crimes the Catholic Church comminted hundreds of years ago by killing Protestants by burning our Churches and Burning people at the stake.

Yes .. hundreds of years ago. You really might want to live in the present time - 2009 - and not hundreds of years ago. But since you seem to want to ... it would be best if you learned that the Protestants mass murdered Catholics, burned their churches, and burned people at the stake as well. That door opens in both directions.


Originally posted by orangeman dave
quite sad really that you can't condemm them for their wicked deeds

Wrong. I have and I continue to condemn the GUILTY .. those priests and bishops who were part of this. But I don't condemn an entire faith and an entire 1 billion people based upon the actions of a VERY FEW in the church. To do so would be just ignorant bigotry.


his shows that the Catholic Church is the biggest Paedophile ring in the world if you want me to show some statistics i will?

Wrong.

immediate edit to fix quote

[edit on 5/22/2009 by FlyersFan]



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