Hello everyone. I've been meaning to post this for a long time. I am going to go into known physics to implications in quantum physics and so on and
so forth. This is going to be a very long thread, so please make sure to read the whole
thing before you reply.
Before I begin, I would like to set some boundaries so that we can get some real debate going on in this thread. I ask the following:
Forget that that any religion here on earth ever existed (including your own), and remember they do not apply to this conversation (other
than for implications in science as it applies to this thread)
Make sure that your replies are related to science, and therefore do not use words like "sky fairy" or any other name currently used in
any religion except "god" (which is a general label) so that we do not go into any current religion or belief / disbelief.
This is not a conversation about belief or disbelief in god, it is merely talking about god as a scientific concept. This way we do not get
into theological or political debate over that concept. Again remember this is a scientific debate.
I have put a ton of work into this. Please be mindful and respectful of that fact.
A big ball of matter!
Without a god there could not have been a beginning of time. Think about it! What would have been before that? More time right? If nothing created the
universe then it had no beginning and therefore has always been there.
The best theory still is a modification of the big bang theory. We have already noticed that the universe is expanding via red / blue shift
observations. We know that galaxies are moving relative to each other, and that they are getting further apart every single day. Not only that, but
the universe’s expansion is accelerating. (we don’t know much but some things we can observe). We can already see that the universe is
accelerating away from a point in space, and therefore at one point all matter was contained in a massive ball. This is the only real way to account
for the relative expansion of the universe. Now let make time run backwards! If we are located at a certain distance today, then yesterday we were
closer together. The day before that, we were still closer. Ultimately, where must all the galaxies have been? At a point! At the beginning! A big
ball of matter…
Some say the universe expands and then contracts back into a singularity, which is the only way really the universe could exist without time having a
beginning. If all matter was contained within a single ball forever then how long could it last? If there was no beginning of time (which is the only
way it could be without god creating it) then how did that singularity last so long without going sooner? There are some pretty unstable elements that
we know of. I’m sure there are many elements that we have not seen that can exist in certain environments. How could all these elements exist
together without violent chemical reactions occurring all the time? It was bound to blow as soon as it came into existence (which it would have never
came into existence because it would have always had to exist)… Why would it have lasted so long?
We know by the first law of conservation of matter that matter cannot be created nor destroyed. That matter would have always existed in form. So in
order for this to be able to work then the universe would have to expand then contract over and over again.
We know that the expansion of the universe is speeding up. If the expansion is speeding up then how could there have not been a beginning since the
unstable ball of matter would not have lasted very long and there was no beginning of time? And furthermore if it is expanding and accelerating then
how did that big ball come to be in the first place?
In 1999, it was discovered that the galaxies are accelerating in their expansion. Any notion that we live in an oscillating or pulsating universe has
been dispelled by this discovery. The universe is not slowing down, but speeding up in its motion. In other words, it is not contracting.
Lets talk about Hydrogen!!
This is the important part…
Hydrogen is the most abundant resource in the cosmos. Anyone who knows anything about spectrographs knows that certain elements only show light in a
certain frequency in the spectrum.
When light passes through a prism, it separates into the colors that make it up. White light changes to a swath of colors. This rainbow is called
a spectrum. You can make spectra (the plural of spectrum) in many ways: with a prism, with drops of water (as in a real rainbow), or with gratings
(like in the glasses you can get). Scientists build special instruments to separate light, usually with gratings. These instruments are called
It turns out that each element absorbs light of a particular frequency—a particular color. If that element is in the cool atmosphere of the
star, those atoms will absorb the light at that color and produce the line. Each element has a specific "signature"—a specific set of line.
Every star is a massive nuclear furnace constantly converting hydrogen (its fuel) into helium (its exhaust). The sun in fact has only used up about 2%
of it’s hydrogen since it came into existence (neat little factoid there). When a star runs out of hydrogen It eventual dies. The star’s death
might be violent and might be subtle but the fact remains when the hydrogen is gone the star is doomed. During a nuclear fusion reaction, two hydrogen
atoms fuze together and form one helium atom. That helium atom is eventually released into the vastness of space.
If there was no beginning of time, and matter cannot be created nor destroyed then there should be the same matter today as there ever was. Right?
What would eventually happen if you where to try to drive your car forever? Wouldn’t you eventually run out of gas?
If stars have been running on hydrogen forever, and thermonuclear fusion has been going on forever (since there is no beginning of time) then why
hasn’t the universe run out of gas?
In fact it’s not even close! Hydrogen is by far still the most abundant resource in the universe! Helium (the exaust) is very scarce. So in order
for this to actually work…… there would have had to be a beginning of time, but how could all of this exist and how could there be a beginning of
time if there wasn’t something there to put the ball into play? How could the universe exist without being created? It would have ran out of gas
[edit on 21-5-2009 by DaMod]