The Final and Most Powerful Deciever of All.

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

 

unless we build this thing, Earth will become completely inhabitable soon enough to leave the human life nonexistant.

I don't think we're going to need to build the new Jerusalem. Revelation says it descends out of the sky.

Where did you read that idea that there are 1000 levels in the New Jerusalem? That's kinda interesting. The shear size of it is mind boggling to me.

There are many systems devised up through the ages about the physical properties of Heaven. You've heared people say phrases like "in the seventh heaven" or "on cloud nine" etc. I used the number thousand as a rough estimate, based on Enoch and the Gnostic scriptures. An aeon is an age or a civilisation. Throughout the Gnostic manuscripts time and space is divided into aeons, heavens, dominions etc. and they are numbered. Basically there seems to be 72 high princes or divine princes of aeons, meaning time-space is basically divided into 72 dimentional continuums or complexes. This is basically a closed system, or like I theorise a floor or an age within the New Jerusalem. The physical world is limited to evolution and decay, and time is linear. But in the spiritual realm, where things like soul and conciousness is defined, time is more or less nonexistant or subject to manipulation. The supreme spiritual being is the Existing One; God who calls himself "I am", or the Existing Being. Like Elohim means the Forces of the Universe, and the Kabbalistic JHVH meaning Time-Space, showing the geometric power grid of the universe, or what holds reality together.

Originally posted by octotom
It is true that "antichrist" is anyone who is against Christ. That's what the prefix "anti" would indicate. In the Bible, the character that we call "Antichrist" has something like 31 names. Antichrist just happens to be the one that we use in general, and it's also probably not the best. A better name would be "pseudo-Christ" because based on Revelation, that's the role that the lawless one truly takes--a false Christ, not an "anti" one.

I'm just responding to the OP's stated topic. If you have information about the false Christ, don't hesitate offering it. My point was a literal Antichrist with a capital A is not prophesied in the bible. And to look for one is unscriptural.

John's gospel was written between AD90 and 95--nearly 300 years before the council at Nicea. Colossians was written before that. I bring this up because both of these books indicate that Jesus was God before he became man.

The letters say Jesus was God? Does it? Where?

Throughout the New Testament, it's more or less presented that man needs to make a decision to believe in Christ. The purpose of Jesus' coming to Earth was to die for our sins so that we could regain paradise with God. Where is Scripture is it taught that we need to obtain "Christ-consciousness"? It simply isn't. One can say all sorts of things, such as, "the Church is keeping it hidden" or "they burned all the books that went against them having control!" but that doesn't make it true. Before Constantine and before the Roman Catholic Church, there were members of the early church that wrote about what was taught and, for the most part, what many Protestant Christians practice today lines up with that.

Matthew 5:48
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Christ demonstrated a model example of what a true human being is. And that is to be perfect as God is perfect.

Mark 10:15
I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.

Purity of heart is necessary.

Luke 9:23
If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it.

A Christ-Consciousness is required.

Matthew 10:37
Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Harsh demands.

The purpose of Christ's coming was for us to believe in him and to model ourselves after his words and examples. The only reason he was crucified was because nobody understood his teaching. The cross did not bring forgiveness of sins. Jesus forgave many while he lived.

Christianity is founded on inaccurate extrapolations deduced by imperfect minds. It's imperfect perception was the basis for what was decreed as truth in the many councils of the church, including what was to be acceptable, inspired Christian texts. (Canon)

Jesus has a high expectation of Christians. Unfortunately it's been watered down. And so we need a scapegoat to shift the blame for the mess the world is in. Rather than understanding "I am the problem," we want to blame an "antichrist" or "false prophet."

As Pogo said: I've seen the enemy and it is us.

Originally posted by Matrix1111

Originally posted by octotom
John's gospel was written between AD90 and 95--nearly 300 years before the council at Nicea. Colossians was written before that. I bring this up because both of these books indicate that Jesus was God before he became man.

The letters say Jesus was God? Does it? Where?

The Gospel of John starts with the phrace: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God". It then explains further how this Word (the name of God, the mystical JHVH which when uttered correctly envokes God himself) which was the name and genetic makeup of the Godhead, the Lord and Creator of Adam, -- becomes the Light (the Spark of Heaven or divine knowledge of creation) that brings light to the darkness. This Word contains the secret of Life itself and is the origin of life, the universe and all so to speak.

The Word of God is the Name of God, a hidden code which turned into every living thing, which Light is rejected by non-believers. Back in the earliest days, when Adam was still alive, the son of Seth made an idol containing the Word or Name of God, which they worshipped. This is the first example of idolworship and speaking the Name of God in vain, though most Christians claim it was a good thing.

What if New Jerusalem is a pyramid, and not a cube.

It would keep the same dimentions.

Another question . . . wouldn't this new HUGE addition to the surface of the earth throw the earth's balance off-kilter?

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
The Gospel of John starts with the phrace: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God". It then explains further how this Word (the name of God, the mystical JHVH which when uttered correctly envokes God himself) which was the name and genetic makeup of the Godhead, the Lord and Creator of Adam, -- becomes the Light (the Spark of Heaven or divine knowledge of creation) that brings light to the darkness. This Word contains the secret of Life itself and is the origin of life, the universe and all so to speak.

The Word of God is the Name of God, a hidden code which turned into every living thing, which Light is rejected by non-believers. Back in the earliest days, when Adam was still alive, the son of Seth made an idol containing the Word or Name of God, which they worshipped. This is the first example of idolworship and speaking the Name of God in vain, though most Christians claim it was a good thing.

That's a lot of extrapolating to conclude Jesus is God. The passage could just as easily mean that in the beginning was the paradigm of a true man, Adam. Adam didn't keep his position, so Jesus became the first true man made in the perfect image (Word) as designed by God. Afterwards, we all have the potential to be transformed into Christ Consciousness through the Word/Paradigm.

Originally posted by xxpigxx
What if New Jerusalem is a pyramid, and not a cube.

It would keep the same dimentions.

It is explaines as a square building where it measures 2220 kilometers in each direction, height width and depth, and that each of it's squared sides are exactly the same.. That's a cube

Another question . . . wouldn't this new HUGE addition to the surface of the earth throw the earth's balance off-kilter?

Like I explained in my earlier post here, my calculations say that this construction will have giant impacts of the Earth. The size of the thing will stop Earth spinning around it's axis and the Earth will act with the Sun then as the Moon does now in relation to Earth, with one side always pointing to the Sun, while the oposite side, where the New Jerusalem would be is cold and frozen. The land under the constant Sun will be like a burning furnace, and this is the Sea of Fire where Satan eventually will be cast into. One will be able to land ships in zero gravity on top of the building, and standing outside looking at the walls of the building, one would be struck by an optical illusion of the walls leaning inwards. This is because of it's size and the fact that Earth is a globe. Adding all this weight to one side of the Earth will have great impact on life outside indeed, so pray you will keep your act together and be allowed inside to live there. The mas of the city will probably be from the Moon, and I see robots building this thing in orbit, and when it's finished in a bout 1000 years, it will be lifted down uppon the earth. I strongly believe that it will be built by robots designed by humans, using the matter of the Moon to make concrete, giant crystals and pearls etc.

My guess is that in the beginning of the Peace Millennium, we will establish computer communication with the future, enabling us to make quantum leaps in science and knowledge. We will use this link to transfer plots and designs, calculations and so on, enabling us to make unseen things using technology not yet understood. The answers will come to us before we have even had time to ask the questions.... God, I love the paradoxes of timetravel....

[edit on 21/5/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

reply to post by Dark Ghost


I thought the punch line to your thread title was going to be "yourself," but I was wrong.

Each of us individually are our own greatest deceivers, though we don't like to see or admit it, and though we're helped along the whole way out of the rabbit hole by society and our peers around us who are equally confused.

[edit on 21-5-2009 by bsbray11]

Originally posted by bsbray11
reply to post by Dark Ghost

 

I thought the punch line to your thread title was going to be "yourself," but I was wrong.

Each of us individually are our own greatest deceivers, though we don't like to see or admit it, and though we're helped along the whole way out of the rabbit hole by society and our peers around us who are equally confused.

[edit on 21-5-2009 by bsbray11]

I can assure you that I am not the Antichrist. Unless of course the true deceiver is lazy, unpunctual, drowsy, demotivated, disinterested, unambitious and addicted to the internet, then yeah guilty as charged

There is some truth to what you are saying though, sometimes we ourselves can be our toughest critics which results in a negative outlook on life.

"The Gospel of John starts with the phrace: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God". It then explains further how this Word (the name of God, the mystical JHVH which when uttered correctly envokes God himself) which was the name and genetic makeup of the Godhead, the Lord and Creator of Adam, -- becomes the Light (the Spark of Heaven or divine knowledge of creation) that brings light to the darkness. This Word contains the secret of Life itself and is the origin of life, the universe and all so to speak. "


This is reference to the greek word LOGOS. In this context logos refers to action, or a state of being. It is not an actual word, it is an act or physical manifestation. We do not know if this refers to jesus, the holy spirit, or to god. Jesus never claimed to be god, this is attributed to the gospel writers decades later.

Personally i think the Bible is a collection of sacred writings corrupted by people long after the fact. Too bad we have so many commentaries by people written decades later, but so little of what jesus actually did and said, and 18 entire years missing.
something is seriously amiss

reply to post by Hallberg Rassy

This is reference to the greek word LOGOS. In this context logos refers to action, or a state of being. It is not an actual word, it is an act or physical manifestation. We do not know if this refers to jesus, the holy spirit, or to god.

When one reads the first two chapters of John [even the first alone will do], it is apparent that the Word is Jesus. This is because the word became flesh and dwelt among men and John's Gospel is about Jesus. This is obvious with just a simple reading.

Jesus never claimed to be god, this is attributed to the gospel writers decades later.

According to John's Gospel, Jesus did claim to be God. When talking to the Pharisee's, Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM". This was Jesus refering to himself as God in a very Jewish way. I AM was what YHWH called himself in Exodus to Moses. By saying this, Jesus made himself God. The Jews realized what he was saying too because immediately after Jesus said this, they wanted to stone him, which was the penalty for blasphemy. Caiaphus also said during Jesus' trial, "you, being a man, make yourself out to be God!" Jesus' claiming to be God is essentially what got him crucified.

Saying that the Gospel writers added that later is hard to say, especially since no modern person was there.

Personally i think the Bible is a collection of sacred writings corrupted by people long after the fact. Too bad we have so many commentaries by people written decades later, but so little of what jesus actually did and said, and 18 entire years missing.
something is seriously amiss

Did you know that all the manu.fragments of the Bible that we have have an amazing consistency? They're more consistent amongst themselves than works of antiquity that "scholars" today regard as completely valid. The oldest manuscripts that we have are closer to the events described therein than all those accepted works. Even older than actual manuscripts are quotes from the manuscripts that make up the Bible by the early church fathers--they range in the millions--and are on point with the complete manuscripts that we have today. It's been said that if all the manuscripts were to disappear, we could write the whole Bible just on quotations from the early church!

What I'm getting at is that the manuscripts haven't been altered like has been perported for years.

As for the 18 years of Jesus' life that are missing--why does that matter? Jesus' ministry started when he was 30ish. That is all that mattered. We don't get bent out of shape with other historical figures' missing years do we?

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

Back in the earliest days, when Adam was still alive, the son of Seth made an idol containing the Word or Name of God, which they worshipped. This is the first example of idolworship and speaking the Name of God in vain,

I heard about this once before. I heard a Bible teacher say that after Cain murdered Abel, he actually cleaned up his act and this is evidenced by the names he gave his children, and they actually became more godly than Seth's line. He also said that in Genesis, it's actually a mistranslation when it says, "and men began worshipping God in those days" and that it should actually read, "and man began to profane God in those days". Very interesting I think. Something that I want to dig into one day.

though most Christians claim it was a good thing.

What do you mean by this? I haven't met a Christian that thinks that idol worship is a good thing. Perhaps I'm missing something?

Originally posted by octotom
What I'm getting at is that the manuscripts haven't been altered like has been perported for years.

The majority do not have manuscripts. They have Bibles, which have most certainly been altered.

As for the 18 years of Jesus' life that are missing--why does that matter? Jesus' ministry started when he was 30ish. That is all that mattered. We don't get bent out of shape with other historical figures' missing years do we?

Only when they profess to be God.

reply to post by Matrix1111

I'm just responding to the OP's stated topic. If you have information about the false Christ, don't hesitate offering it. My point was a literal Antichrist with a capital A is not prophesied in the bible. And to look for one is unscriptural.

No, the Bible does speak of one lawless one, the Antichrist if you will, that will rise to power before Christ returns. As I've said before, "Antichrist" probably isn't the best name for him because he's referred to by some 31 names throughout the Old and New Testaments. Among them are "beast", "lawless one", and "the Assyrian".

Matthew 5:48
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Christ demonstrated a model example of what a true human being is. And that is to be perfect as God is perfect.

Christ did model what perfection is, but perfection isn't something that we humans can obtain while were in our fleshly bodies. When one makes a decision to accept Christ as savior, God sees us as perfect due to the blood of Christ which washes us clean.

The cross did not bring forgiveness of sins.

No one said that the cross brought forgiveness for sins. With Jesus' death on the cross, atonment for sins was provided. Read Hebrews. This talks about this in depth.

It's imperfect perception was the basis for what was decreed as truth in the many councils of the church, including what was to be acceptable, inspired Christian texts.

The church councils didn't deem what was true. Many of them clarified more what Christian belief was or how things should be. I love how people always bring up Nicea. When the Council of Nicea happened, the church didn't "decide what books were God's Word" like is always spouted. Whatever was God's word is God's Word inherently--no human decree can change that or make that. When the Council convened, 22 of the 27 New Testament books had alread been accepted by Christians as a whole--only 2/3 John, Hebrews, 2 Peter, and Jude [I think] were in dispute. The council also dicussed whether a couple other books were God's Word--such as the Shepherd of Hermas. The attendees discussed their reasonings as to why the books should be included or excluded, and when it was all said and done, the NT canon was deemed complete.

One must remember to that the attendees to the council were God fearing men and they only wanted to do God's will. They took their work very seriously. This is evident from their writings. They weren't going to frivolously through a book out because it didn't meet their agenda.

Jesus has a high expectation of Christians. Unfortunately it's been watered down. And so we need a scapegoat to shift the blame for the mess the world is in. Rather than understanding "I am the problem," we want to blame an "antichrist" or "false prophet."

While, sadly, it's true that many Christians don't accept the blame for their own shortcomings [which is human nature], the Antichrist isn't the one who gets the blame. We don't sin because of Antichrist. Antichrist will come as the false prophet to deceive the world.

reply to post by UrsusMajor

The majority do not have manuscripts. They have Bibles, which have most certainly been altered.

That's not true. Many of the manuscripts that we have date from before the time that books and codecies were produced.

There are three main text familes when concerning New Testament manuscripts, from three different areas of the world. Apart from minor spelling variations, like the difference between flavor and flavour, they're in complete agreement. If someone was chaning something, it would be obvious due to these families.

Only when they profess to be God

Many of the Roman Emperors claimed diety but we don't fret when we have a gap of time in their life.

[edit on 5/22/2009 by octotom]

History repeats itself, so I think just as in the days before Jesus was born, so it will be before the antichrist is revealed. The scribes and pharisees were looking for a king with wealth and riches to be the coming messiah. But did not recognize Jesus when he came as the awaited messiah. Or did not want to accept Jesus as the promised messiah rather because he did not fit into their idea of who they thought the messiah would be. So I believe that in a way we are like that today when we look for the antichrist to be revealed. We have been taught through the ages he will be this and that and come from a certain place. At least that is how I was brought up being taught and I never questioned it because I was taught that in church. I think that is a great deception by satan to throw everyone off track, so that when the antichrist does rise to power, he will have done so without most people even being aware that it was him. I now believe the antichrist is the islamic religion. If you take the scriptures that describe the antichrist, they do not necessarily have to describe a man but they also describe the islamic religion and all that they stand for and believe. And look how fast islam is taking over the world in just the past few years. And the teachings of the Quran parallel the teachings of the bible regarding the antichrist. I mean, what the Quran teaches about their coming messiah parallels what our bible teaches about the coming antichrist.
If you want to think outside the box, then look at the antichrist from a different perspective other than it being a man.

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

 

the son of Seth made an idol containing the Word or Name of God, which they worshipped.

"and men began worshipping God in those days" and that it should actually read, "and man began to profane God in those days".

though most Christians claim it was a good thing.

What do you mean by this? I haven't met a Christian that thinks that idol worship is a good thing. Perhaps I'm missing something?

Like you said Christian transltions of the bible translates this passage incorrectly, and it is possibly connected to bad concious due to the fact that you won't find a single church without some altarpieces or other art depicting everything from God himself to black Madonnas. These are idols. And if you put esoteric and profound meaning in a cross and wear it round your neck, kissing it before the big game for instance... That's an idol too...

Here's a simple experiment. Take the ten commandments, and find one particular aspect of -- or a happening within the history of the Catholic Church which per definition breaks the given commandment. You will find that these things are so deeply rooted in Catholic dogma and faith that it has become the typical example of how to knowingly and categoricalle and thoroughly break the most important commandments in the Bible. Not that Protestants or Mprmons are any better.

It seems to me like in order to survive as an organised religion you must completely deny your own god categorically through masses and incomprehencible speaches, force and torture your followers and so on. When knowledge becomes myth and then religion, religion itself doesn't recognise itself when what they originally witnessed arrives hundreds or even thousands of years later.

The time is now my friends, from this generation on, I hope we leave this Game to the machines. Macines that cannot love and hate, fear and suffer.

reply to post by Marle

I now believe the antichrist is the islamic religion.

I used to believe that the Antichrist would be Muslim as well and that Islam would be the one world religion, but after looking at some prophecies in Ezekiel, I changed my mind. This happened because, it seems that all of what we call the Muslim countries get wiped out, leaving Islam virtually adherentless. I suppose though that it is entirely possible that the Antichrist could be Muslim, of the secular/cultural varieity, but I don't think Islam will be the world religion. It will have a unique purpose in starting the Tribulation though, in my opinion.

And the teachings of the Quran parallel the teachings of the bible regarding the antichrist. I mean, what the Quran teaches about their coming messiah parallels what our bible teaches about the coming antichrist.

This is something that I've always found intriging. That alone makes me think that Islam was only created to be a mirror of sorts of Christianity.

If you want to think outside the box, then look at the antichrist from a different perspective other than it being a man.

In my opinion, that's kinda hard to do since the Antichrist is described several times as being a human being--his head was wounded, he gets a solid black eye, he is tossed into the Lake of Fire--this are things that are hard to to attribute to a religious system.

There are so many misconceptions in the bible...mostly due to translation errors from greek and hebrew into english.

When jesus says " I AM", in the book of john, he says eigo eimi, which is not the same as the grand " I AM THAT I AM" spoken by God. The pphrase spoken by jesus in the book of john is not the same words as attributed to God, but are translated into english as the same. It is a translation error, one of many.

And if this is the only example of jesus stating he is god, why wouldnt the other 3 gospels mention it..? they do not because it is not what has been purported.


The word becoming flesh refers to the act of creation, not to jesus specifically. ( LOGOS ), please read the Bible in original Greek or Hebrew, in some cases both, to understand the context of a particular word or phrase. Logos cannot be considered a person, it is an ACT as used in this context.



There is nothing Jesus says that can be attributed to his being God. It is people that wrote decades laters, decided by people that lived hundreds to thousands of years later that decided who jesus was. He himself never states what so many others feel is somehow required to validate his teachings.
The Bible is just a book, it is not sacred nor holy. I have a sneeking suspicion jesus would not approve of the manner a book has been elevated to become more important than the teachings contained within. It has always been a curious point that less than 1% of the bible is what Jesus actually says or does, but 99% intrepretation. I imagine there are books somewhere that contain the missing 18 years of his life, but they do not jibe with the personae that the organized church wishes to portray jesus.

reply to post by octotom


One posibility of the fatal head wound referring to the islamic religion and not to an actual man could be a fatal wound to the head of an empire or kingdom, like say to its governing body. In March of 1924, the Office of Calif, the governing body of the Islamic Empire for over 1400 years, was officially abolished. This could be the fatal head wound. And in the past few years, more and more muslim groups are calling for the revival of the the islamic caliphate. That could be the miraculous recovery of the fatal head wound. Just an idea.

It doesnt necessarily have to be someone alive right now. It could be someone who is already dead - actually the Bible passages seem to support this -

Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.