Ergosphere: Faster-Than-Light in nature!!

en.wikipedia.org...

The ergosphere is a region located outside a rotating black hole. Its name is derived from the Greek word ergon, which means “work”. It received this name because it is theoretically possible to extract energy and mass from the black hole in this region.

The ergosphere is ellipsoidal in shape and is situated so that at the poles of rotating black hole it touches the event horizon and stretches out to a distance that is equal to the radius of the event horizon. Within the ergosphere spacetime is dragged along in the direction of the rotation of the black hole at a speed greater than the speed of light in relation to the rest of the universe

This simply means if you are stationary inside an ergosphere, you should be moving faster than light if observed far beyond this ergosphere while still obeying General Relativity... If this thing is for real, you can travel at speeds blindingly many times faster than light if you could only duplicate this field around your spacecraft..

I was too excited finding this out today on my continuing research on astrophysics...

S & F

I am not an expert in astrophysics, if I assume correctly the gravity from the black hole is causing this ? How was this first detected and how we came to the conslusion it is faster than the speed of light, is what I am interested in.

So you would need a black hole within your space craft? Or something that would provide an equivalent gravity well?? How would a person be able to travel within that craft?

Cool idea tho - thanks for puting it out there

the problem lies in the assertion that something traveling faster then light can be measured and thus proven. because of the limitations of the human mind, speculative assumptions is the closest we can get.

[edit on 21-5-2009 by jimmyx]

reply to post by ahnggk


Can you imagine the fretting over the calculations, getting your approach trajectory right ?

Do black holes spin clockwise or anticlockwise , what determines this ? Does it have a significant effect on your experience of time lines?

One more amateur question .....

Presumably ,a black hole is a three dimensional phenomenon* (time aside*) , can i ask , what would it look like from "behind" ...... does it tail off like a vortex found in a tornado .Do scientist have a guesstimate for the length of this phenomenon, if any exists ?

Cheers .
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit to add video:


I remembered this scientist from a time travel documentary featuring Dr. Michio Kaku . Thought you might be interested in it.

[edit on 21-5-2009 by UmbraSumus]

Originally posted by Now_Then
So you would need a black hole within your space craft? Or something that would provide an equivalent gravity well?? How would a person be able to travel within that craft?

if this could be ansered by anyone i don`t think thay would share the idea until thay had made some money from it it just shows it posible

edit for missed quote

[edit on 21-5-2009 by Aceofclubs]

ah yes this region around a black hole due to frame dragging would permit time travel. . . .

its the basis for the late great frank tipler's cylinder hypothesis

Tipler cylinder, also called a Tipler time machine, is a hypothetical object theorized to be a potential mode of time travel—an approach that is conceivably functional within humanity's current understanding of physics, specifically the theory of general relativity, although later results have shown that a Tipler cylinder could only allow time travel if its length were infinite (see the discussion of Hawking's conjecture below).

Frank J. Tipler showed in his 1974 paper, "Rotating Cylinders and the Possibility of Global Causality Violation" that in a spacetime containing a massive, infinitely long cylinder which was spinning along its longitudinal axis, the cylinder should create a frame-dragging effect. This frame-dragging effect warps spacetime in such a way that the light cones of objects in the cylinder's proximity become tilted, so that part of the light cone then points backwards along the time axis on a space time diagram. Therefore a spacecraft accelerating sufficiently in the appropriate direction can travel backwards through time along a closed timelike curve or CTC.[1]

CTC's are associated, in Lorentzian manifolds which are interpreted physically as spacetimes, with the possibility of causal anomalies such as going back in time and potentially shooting your own grandfather, although paradoxes might be avoided using some constraint such as the Novikov self-consistency principle. They have an unnerving habit of appearing in some of the most important exact solutions in general relativity, including the Kerr vacuum (which models a rotating black hole) and the van Stockum dust (which models a cylindrically symmetrical configuration of rotating pressureless fluid or dust).

An objection to the practicality of building a Tipler cylinder was discovered by Stephen Hawking, who posited a conjecture showing that according to general relativity it is impossible to build a time machine in any finite region that satisfies the weak energy condition, meaning that the region contains no exotic matter with negative energy. The Tipler cylinder, on the other hand, does not involve any negative energy. Tipler's original solution involved a cylinder of infinite length, which is easier to analyze mathematically, and although Tipler suggested that a finite cylinder might produce closed timelike curves if the rotation rate were fast enough,[2] he did not prove this. But Hawking argues that because of his conjecture, "it can't be done with positive energy density everywhere! I can prove that to build a finite time machine, you need negative energy."[3] This argument comes from Hawking's 1992 paper on the chronology protection conjecture, where he examines "the case that the causality violations appear in a finite region of spacetime without curvature singularities" and proves that "[t]here will be a Cauchy horizon that is compactly generated and that in general contains one or more closed null geodesics which will be incomplete. One can define geometrical quantities that measure the Lorentz boost and area increase on going round these closed null geodesics. If the causality violation developed from a noncompact initial surface, the averaged weak energy condition must be violated on the Cauchy horizon."[4]

en.wikipedia.org...

Google Video Link

[edit on 21-5-2009 by constantwonder]

My friend, the inventor, has invented a craft that relies on a singularity. It allows movement that would appear as FTL to those outside the craft.

Granted it is still only on paper, as he has no money to create a prototype, but he seems to have grasped something.

I did some illustrations of his idea and they are available here: www.frontsoft.com...

Anyway... Awesome OP. Thanks!

Ive read Dr. Michio Kaku's Hyperspace, and I thought time travel was already theoretically possible under the certain black hole requirements, or is this another twist on the theory that I don't understand yet?

Originally posted by devilruski
Ive read Dr. Michio Kaku's Hyperspace, and I thought time travel was already theoretically possible under the certain black hole requirements, or is this another twist on the theory that I don't understand yet?

this idea originated by frank tipler is theoreticaly possible but in practice its to dangerous and would be one hell of a feat of engineering and mind power just to get a craft that could withstand the tidal forces around the black hole. . . . maybe or something

sci-fi has been using this for a long time. It isn't hyperspace which is more based on wormhole theories but warp space as in Star Trek. The question that I wonder about is how you prevent the singularity that creates the static warp bubble from crushing everything within the event horizon.

It seems to me the singularity would have to travel along with you to maintain the bubble and so therefore would have to be contained within the vehicle.

Very cool find OP! I am swimming through all the links and videos now. IMHO this is the future of physics. Special and General Relativity theories are still flawed, but with new computer technology and space anomalies I think we are on the verge of the next great breakthrough. For some reason the greatest discoveries tend to happen almost simultaneously in several places around the world, and the turn of the century has historically been an active time for discovery. With disclosure ramping up, unidentified laser pulses from space, particle collider coming online again, and the 'coolest' sun we have experienced in modern times, this is an exciting time to be open-minded and scientifically curious. We may see a lot of history made in our lifetime!

Originally posted by sunny_2008ny
S & F

I am not an expert in astrophysics, if I assume correctly the gravity from the black hole is causing this ? How was this first detected and how we came to the conslusion it is faster than the speed of light, is what I am interested in.

This is how they derived the formula, this link is also available within the wiki article on Ergosphere.

en.wikipedia.org...

The links within there are also useful!

Originally posted by jimmyx

the problem lies in the assertion that something traveling faster then light can be measured and thus proven. because of the limitations of the human mind, speculative assumptions is the closest we can get.

Suspected FTL motion:
en.wikipedia.org...

Not true FTL but in my assumption, FTL objects would be invisible or emit light in highly unusual fashion, even severely red-shifted and can be mistaken for any 'sub-light-speed' object

Originally posted by Amaterasu

My friend, the inventor, has invented a craft that relies on a singularity. It allows movement that would appear as FTL to those outside the craft.

Granted it is still only on paper, as he has no money to create a prototype, but he seems to have grasped something.

I did some illustrations of his idea and they are available here: www.frontsoft.com...

He needs the LHC

Originally posted by constantwonder

this idea originated by frank tipler is theoreticaly possible but in practice its to dangerous and would be one hell of a feat of engineering and mind power just to get a craft that could withstand the tidal forces around the black hole. . . . maybe or something

A Supermassive Black Hole won't tear you apart even at the Event Horizon... Unfortunately, the nearest one is 26,000 light years away in Sagittarius A

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by damwel

It seems to me the singularity would have to travel along with you to maintain the bubble and so therefore would have to be contained within the vehicle.

That's why we may need to understand how gravity/gravitons are generated by matter.. If we can do it artificially without any real mass, then we don't need a singularity anymore, a huge amount of energy maybe.. Because small singularities are largely impractical due to insane tidal forces.

....And thanks for all the lively response and sharing your ideas!!

[edit on 21-5-2009 by ahnggk]

Originally posted by damwel
The question that I wonder about is how you prevent the singularity that creates the static warp bubble from crushing everything within the event horizon.

I've always wondered about that very thing... what happens to any matter caught in the event horizon? What happens when/if this matter collides? Would we see the mother of all explosions created by the mother of all particle accelerators? Or will everything, time and matter alike become infinitely small yet maintain the same aspect ratio relative to each other?

Pardon my ignorance... I am admittedly a rank amature!

IRM

would it then be possible to go back in time if the ergosphere had a counter clockwise rotation?

Ok I've posted this vid a couple times in a few time travel threads, but I think it is relevant for this thread. It was found that you could accelerate a particle to the speed of light using lasers arranged in a spiral pattern without breaking the laws of physics using this very same idea. This was actually on the discovery channel a while back, and I found it to be pretty interesting. This is also by Dr. Robert Mallett



This concept could feasibly be used for propulsion one day, however I think other methods of space / time bending and manipulation would be more practical.

I actually had a hypothesis for a while that gravity was a form of magnetism. We've seen in some superconductors the same lensing effect you see with gravity, which gives us a good hint that gravity is something other than what we think it is and perhaps is a connected force.

Our bodies and every piece of matter on earth is electronic in the sense that on the atomic level we all have polarity therefore we are all magnetic in a sense.(even though some materials are more reactive to magnetism) If our atomic structure adjusts to be of opposite polarity of the earth's magnetic field then you would see some sort of magnetic effect. (that all matter generates on some level) It's just a hypothesis, but the lensing effects of a superconductor give us a nice clue.

[edit on 21-5-2009 by DaMod]

Originally posted by DaMod
I actually had a hypothesis for a while that gravity was a form of magnetism. We've seen in some superconductors the same lensing effect you see with gravity, which gives us a good hint that gravity is something other than what we think it is and perhaps is a connected force.

I think this is what you're talking about:
en.wikipedia.org...

Unfortunately it still is not a 100% proven as the researchers claim it to be....

...But if it does, then gravity should easily fall into the realm of Quantum Mechanics, the realm of infinite probabilities I might say...

...It will also prove the existence of Ether that would consist of at least random particles or waves, vibrating or flying in space at any direction, and gravity is produced, whenever you put some order into the randomness....

I think it would be possible to transcend the speed of light in a vehicle. If you "shook off" the electromagnetic properties via resonancing beyond the speed of light, you would be uninhibited by mass. Trying to do so with your em properties intact just can't work.

I don't think blackholes have anything to do with the speed of light outside that fact that their gravitational pull conteracts its velocity.

Originally posted by ahnggk
en.wikipedia.org...

The ergosphere is a region located outside a rotating black hole. Its name is derived from the Greek word ergon, which means “work”. It received this name because it is theoretically possible to extract energy and mass from the black hole in this region.

The ergosphere is ellipsoidal in shape and is situated so that at the poles of rotating black hole it touches the event horizon and stretches out to a distance that is equal to the radius of the event horizon. Within the ergosphere spacetime is dragged along in the direction of the rotation of the black hole at a speed greater than the speed of light in relation to the rest of the universe

This simply means if you are stationary inside an ergosphere, you should be moving faster than light if observed far beyond this ergosphere while still obeying General Relativity... If this thing is for real, you can travel at speeds blindingly many times faster than light if you could only duplicate this field around your spacecraft..

I was too excited finding this out today on my continuing research on astrophysics...

Is that why we can only see the ships flying away really fast for a split second, because they are traveling faster than the light they produce that we would see so it looks like it dissapears but is just moving faster than the light it creates?

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85

Is that why we can only see the ships flying away really fast for a split second, because they are traveling faster than the light they produce that we would see so it looks like it dissapears but is just moving faster than the light it creates?

Same here. I was thinking the phenomenon might be similar to sonic shockwaves from supersonic aircraft. But instead of sonic shockwaves, an FTL starship may in some unique photonic reaction, create a photonic shock, a tiny fraction of a second burst of light when in the vicinity of a bright light source or when slowing down or turning - Bremsstrahlung or Cyclotron Radiation. Then 'piling' up of photons ahead of the spacecraft and propelled to the side of the craft.

This microsecond em burst may not be detected until the FTL starship has passed, making them nearly impossible to detect... Oh look, imagine if an alien race with FTL technology is poised to invade our planet, they would never be detected until it's too late..