Why I became the REAL Pro-Choice...Pro-Eugenics

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posted on May, 21 2009 @ 03:06 PM
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Ahhh see...thats where the problem comes.

One person making the ultimate choice for another person.

You deciding who lives or dies. Or any person deciding who would be better off living or dead.

Of course thats likely your whole point to this thread...hopefully.

Its not just Eugenics, its also;
Abortion
Death Penalty
insert any other action that involves one person taking another persons life.

You are taking away another persons ability to decide for themselves for the sake of your own personal desires. Its too hard for YOU so who cares what they want or think. Unless I have missed something thats what I hear from you.

What about if one of your children decided that you were no longer happy and it would be better for them to put you down. Thats ok then?




posted on May, 21 2009 @ 03:07 PM
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rather than developing ways to terminate unwanted people

we should send them to mars as our first settlers or something productive like that

and in the meantime lets focus on having a decent farming agriculture, that way we can expand our population cap and fend off the problems associated with overpopulation

similar to the way that the invention of refrigeration allowed the population cap of developed nations to increase comfortably to much higher levels, we must continue the trek of science and develop newer ways to increase our pop cap

rather than killing people off, lets educate them to help improve our world faster with more ideas and fresh thinking



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


I like your idea of just sending them off to Mars. That would then free people from the guilt that they may have actually had someone murdered, not that I think it should be viewed that way but you know some people will. My only problem with it is the expense of flying to Mars. That could be really bad for society.

Plus, just think how bad it would be on a spacecraft full of old sick people, retards, mentaly ill, abusers, alcoholics, etc... that place would be a disaster and noisy as all get out. I mean if you get a few turrets people on there, a couple of schizophrenics, and a few self soilers, you have a real mess on your hands.

As far as advancing science so we can extend the number of humans. I think that is a good idea, but just remember we will be having some open slots if we can just change the laws.


[edit on 5/21/2009 by justsomeboreddude]



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Wow, your views a a little askew friend.


twisted? planned parenthood was founded by a eugenicist.


It IS wrong to murder your child, abortion is not murder.


the purposeful killing of innocent human life can also be referred to as a form of murder.


These people are the only gift from God there has ever been , how dare you call them burdends. You ask any real parent of a handicapped child if they think they are a burden and you will find that they love those children MORE because of what they are.


arguably scores more of an inconvenience than an unborn human.


As far as your pro-choice stance goes, I commend you, it is a women's right to choose wether or not to abort a child, but it should have nothing to do with being a burden.


does the living, unborn human get a say in this "choice"? no?

interesting how humans who survived abortion are all for it....


If you terminate your pregnancy simply because you don't want to be bothered to raise a child, then you have done so for the wrong reasons.


and the prevalently most popular reasons unborn humans are killed, you seem to forget.


That is a selfish way of thinking.


ironic, isnt it? slurping out your unborn baby piece by piece because you dont want to ruin your figure is of course, 'constitutionally guaranteed' and not selfish at all...


It should have everything to do with circumstance. Rape victims, crack heads and extremely young teens, those are the good reasons for abortion. The reasons you have given are a cop out.


yes, its the unborn living humans fault that a rape occurred and must be killed for it. punish the baby.


Since I came to trully realize the burden of a mother carrying an unwanted child for 9 months, I began to think through all of the burdens that a family could face by an unwanted family member. For instance, we all know people who trully regretted having a certain child because of personality conflicts, high maintenance, post partum depression, etc.


women are designed and equipped to carry children, its where humans come from.

unwanted humans are okay to kill? they are worth nothing? thats a miserable outlook.



I have read alot of shocking things on ATS, but this...wow my friend, you really need to re-think what you have just posted. Especially your kill instead of cure ideas, I mean, ARE YOU SERIOUS!

I will tell people to visit this thread, not to support this idea, but to stand in awe at the sheer ammount of moral injustice.


no one was more insistent on safe access to abortion than the eugenics minded founder of planned parenthood...

she knew what to do when life became "inconvenient"....

and undesirable...


How Planned Parenthood Duped America



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


See this is where you misunderstand me. Sure some handicapped people can be an added benefit to society. That is why I leave it to the parents to decide if they want to raise this kid until they are 80. We may benefit to a degree by watching this handicapped person, but we arent the ones suffering on a daily basis to take care of them.


Sure, just look at Dr. Stephen Hawking, I think we can all say that he's a benefit to society.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by Finalized
 


Yeah Hawking is a benefit to society and nobody is probably going to terminate him because of that. You know its just like abortion. People who want to have babies will and they will live and people who dont want to dont have them. Its all about the choice and the personal power and the freedom to choose.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by justsomeboreddude
 




Nice. Not quite Johnathon Swift, but amusing nontheless. Maybe you could try being a little less heavy-handed in your satire in the future? because you could make a nice little buck from it, I think



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
reply to post by Finalized
 


Yeah Hawking is a benefit to society and nobody is probably going to terminate him because of that. You know its just like abortion. People who want to have babies will and they will live and people who dont want to dont have them. Its all about the choice and the personal power and the freedom to choose.


right, like the freedom to choose who you might kill...

serial killers are just exercising their right to "choose" arent they?

say, i bet you're all for allowing americans to vote on the abortion issue!

am i right?

i mean, its all about "choice", isnt it?

no?



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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My posts last night were at the end of a twelve hour day in the office and probably inappropriate.

Even though I am a person of Faith, my views on this topic are based in logic.

From the moment the sperm meets egg all of the components of the growing Human are present. Nobody can say, even if it is known the child will be born handicapped, what that child's life will be like and what importance that life may have to society or our futures.

It does not matter who the Father or Mother are, or how the pregnancy came about; we are talking about a separate individual who should have the same rights as you or me.

I see no difference between the woman who dumps a living breathing child into a dumpster and someone who has an abortion at any point in the pregnancy.

Even though I feel it is in fact murder, I also recognize that it is based on an aspect of morality. Due to that I fall partially into the Pro-Choice camp.

Government should have zero involvement in this issue unless they are willing to write laws making it what it is; which is murder. If not, they should have no involvement in the funding of or the support of Abortion in any way or manner.

If our Government believes it is not a criminal matter then by what logic should they be involved and how could they justify funding anything to do with it?

As far as Eugenics goes, if for no other reason than the fact most people find it unpalatable; the very idea of it should be shunned by society. It is no different than radical Islamist's concept that non-Muslims are less than human or the Nazi's concept of a Supreme Race.


Of what value are the less than perfect in our society?
1. Sarah Bernhardt: French actress (1844-1923) Disabled by a knee injury, her leg amputated in 1914, she continued starring on stage until just before her death. She is regarded as France's greatest actress -- "The Divine Sarah".

2. Beethoven: Composer: Was deaf when he composed his 9th symphony.

3. Winston Churchill: had a learning disability.

4. Walt Disney: had a learning disability.

5. Edison: Had a learning disability. He couldn't read until he was twelve years old and had a very difficult time writing even when he was older.

6. Albert Einstein: Mathematician/Physicist: Had a learning disability and did not speak until age 3. He had a very difficult time doing math in school. It was very hard for him to express himself through writing.

7. Goya: Spanish painter (1746-1828): At age 46, an illness left him deaf. He went on to create the most famous Spanish art of the 19th century.

8. Alexander Graham Bell: had a learning disability.

9. Stephen Hawking: physicist/mathematician has Lou Gehrigs Disease and is in a wheelchair. He needs a computer to speak.

10. Milton: English Author/poet (1608-1674): He became blind at age 43. He went on to create his most famous epic, Paradise Lost.

11. George Patton: This World War II General had a learning disability.

12. Nelson Rockfeller: former Vice President: had a learning disability: dyslexia.

13. President Roosevelt: At age 39, his legs were paralyzed by polio. He became governor of New York state and was elected president four times.


14. Harriett Tubman: Abolitionist (1830-1913): As a child she was struck by an overseer. The blow fractured her skull and resulted in narcolepsy for the rest of her life. She rescued hundreds of slaves on the underground railroad.

15. Werner Von Braun: had a learning disability and often flunked his math tests in high school.

16. George Washington: Had a learning disability. He could barely write and had very poor grammar skills.

17. Woodrow Wilson: U.S. President from 1913-1921. Had a learning disability -- was severely dyslexic.

18. Robert M. Hensel: Disability Advocate,Poet & 2x World record holder was born with Spina bifida



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


Its not satire. Dont try that disinfo tactic of minimizing my beliefs.

Think of the benefit to society.
1. Less people would probably get abortions because they would have the option to terminate if they decided they didnt like what they got. So that would make the pro-lifers happy
2. Less children could be a product of divorce. Say for example the husband doesnt love his wife because she is a flaming biatch to him and the children. He could just get the majority of kids to join his side and then they could just terminate the mother. Then they wouldnt be victims of divorce, but children of a deceased mother. Think how that would improve divorce statistics.
3. But mostly, no more wasting your life taking care of your screwed up relatives. Now you are truly free to live life just as you had planned.


[edit on 5/21/2009 by justsomeboreddude]



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by justsomeboreddude
 


Of course it's not.


No, don't let me rain on the amusement you're no doubt getting from this. I'll just stand in quiet awe at the people who are eating from your spoon.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by DohBama
yes, its the unborn living humans fault that a rape occurred and must be killed for it. punish the baby.



So its the mother who should suffer? This what you are saying? She had NO choice in the rape so therefore she must have no choice to its ultimate outcome as well? Do you not see how it would be too far for some women?

You are right, its not the babies fault. But its also not the mothers fault either. When I chose to have my child it NEVER occured to me that my rapist also had rights to the child I was FORCED to get pregnant with. It never occured to me that for the next 18 years I would HAVE to deal with him. I wouldnt go back and change keeping her, but if abortion had not been a choice.. I would have felt RAPED by the system.

I am not attacking you, I am trying to point out the flaw in thinking that a rape victim should be forced into a situation that is not of her making.




posted on May, 21 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
Let me start off by telling you a little about myself. Until recently, I was an ardent Pro-Life supporter, but I recently came to learn that Pro-Choice was better for all involved. It was hearing the arguments of the other side that made me realize my error. I am sure you know what they are... a woman should have control of her body, carrying an unwanted fetus for 9 months could be considered torture, the child and mother would both be better off in the long run, the child could become a financial burden to society, etc.

I have always viewed abortion as a form of murder. This may seem extreme to some, but in the end it became a positive attribute in my transition. Once I overcame the idea that it was wrong to "murder" your child, it was easy to realize the true benefits to letting go of this pro-life way of thinking. Now I was free of my own predjudices and able to find Eugenics.

I believe the best way to describe this is intra-family eugenics, meaning to only give the rights to the family of the individual that needs to be terminated for the good of the family and/or society.

Since I came to trully realize the burden of a mother carrying an unwanted child for 9 months, I began to think through all of the burdens that a family could face by an unwanted family member. For instance, we all know people who trully regretted having a certain child because of personality conflicts, high maintenance, post partum depression, etc.

Also, there are the handicapped and mentally ill individuals whose burden on their parents is sometimes overwhelming, the emotional, the feelings of failure, the financial because of medical bills, and the fact that many of them never become independent so you are responsible for them for the rest of their lives.

In addition there are the elderly and the sick...the cancer and heart patients, alcoholics, drug addicts, etc. All of these people are a potential burden to the family and/or society.

Just think of the economic savings to our society if we just terminate these burdens to society instead of trying to cure them. For instance, imagine your elderly parents who have saved their whole lives. Why should a person allow that money be used up to keep them in a rest home, when we could just terminate their lives. Wouldnt they be just as happy dead as rotting away in an overpriced nursing home?

So I say now is the time to change the laws to give people a real freedom of choice so they can have the freedom they deserve and live their lives the way they wanted to, before the tradgedy of these burdensome people entered their lives. It leaves us with a better, more healthy, more wanted group of people with the desired genetics to pass to the future. I mean wouldnt you have killed a child Hitler if you had the chance?

I envision it as taking these people to the doctor. Having the doctor administer a drug to knock them out and then proceed to terminate them through lethal injection or poison gas. Its quick its painless and they are none the wiser.

I hope you all will join me in this personal crusade to make the world a better place.


[edit on 5/20/2009 by justsomeboreddude]

[edit on 5/21/2009 by justsomeboreddude]


Switch to smaller bait. I can't get my mouth around that spoon,...

Wouldn't hurt to troll a little slower too,....

Just sayin.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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I am sorry, but nothing could ever make me PRO CHOICE.

Maybe it hits a little close to home for me.

I was days away from being "aborted" days away from never living my life.

My mother, the woman who adopted me saved my life.

There are many more like my mother who would love to have a child if these woman who are so careless with protecting themselves then they deserve to have the "torture" of a living fetus in them and should swallow their pride and take responsibility for their actions and do the right thing.
Find a loving home that they can not give that baby, I'd say that's a small enough sacrifice to make for the life of a living being that they so carelessly created.

I am NOT a financial burden for society.
People who are born from a planned pregnancy have the same chance of becoming a burden by society.
You'll actually find more people like me, who have been through the things I have, have been given a sort of drive a thirst for life and empathy, empathy that most could never achieve and use it to do more good in this world then most "average" people.

I have been a great productive member of society and have helped many many of people in my years of being a counselor and have actually saved the lives of un born babies and have had the birth mothers practically get on their knees and thank me for helping them not make that mistake.

So many babies are being killed that could have become such great intelligence world changing people.

The sad thing is, most of those who support abortions would have probably been abortions if it wasn't seen as such a stigma at least from those in my age range, and then the Christians of the 50's same goes for them.

Imagine that, your existence wiped out from underneath you before you had a chance to even exist.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by ImzadiDax

So its the mother who should suffer? This what you are saying? She had NO choice in the rape so therefore she must have no choice to its ultimate outcome as well? Do you not see how it would be too far for some women?


every friend of min who had a baby loved being pregnant, oh, there were some rough spots, hormone fluctuation, some vomiting, but nothing to kill a baby over.

"i dont want a stretch mark. i'm afraid i'm going to have to have you torn apart and sucked out, sorry pal."

even a product of rape (a fine tradition back in the old days, read your world history) is a valuable human with all the potential to love, be loved, contribute, grow old and die like everyone else.

there are many of us who are likely descendent's of "reproduction by rape" at some point in our family trees.

but hey, sure, stick a fork in the back of their head and suck their brains out instead.

its all good, yo!

right?



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
rather than developing ways to terminate unwanted people

we should send them to mars as our first settlers or something productive like that


I love this idea - if you have read Douglas Adams, then in his book this is the origin of humanity. I think their planet was exploding or something, so they sent all the scientists and engineers, doctors etc on ahead - and then they sent all the hairdressers, cross-dressers, janitors etc off to an entirely different planet (earth) to get rid of them. When they arrived on earth the just figured that the rest would turn up and save them at some point - pretty funny. They used leaves for money - inflation was outrageous and they deforested the area killing off the other hominid species that was evolving.

Of course your not likely to see a very successful colony composed of the mentally retarded, blind, quadraplegic's and sociopaths - but I'm sure the scorching heat and blistering cold and complete lack of oxygen would have them all dead within a few minutes anyway.

Very amusing idea - keep up the pure genius



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by DohBama


every friend of min who had a baby loved being pregnant, oh, there were some rough spots, hormone fluctuation, some vomiting, but nothing to kill a baby over.

"i dont want a stretch mark. i'm afraid i'm going to have to have you torn apart and sucked out, sorry pal."

even a product of rape (a fine tradition back in the old days, read your world history) is a valuable human with all the potential to love, be loved, contribute, grow old and die like everyone else.

there are many of us who are likely descendent's of "reproduction by rape" at some point in our family trees.

but hey, sure, stick a fork in the back of their head and suck their brains out instead.

its all good, yo!

right?


I cant even muster a response to this. You praise rape as being a fine tradition? I cant... Im sorry but ...

outta here.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by Finalized

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


See this is where you misunderstand me. Sure some handicapped people can be an added benefit to society. That is why I leave it to the parents to decide if they want to raise this kid until they are 80. We may benefit to a degree by watching this handicapped person, but we arent the ones suffering on a daily basis to take care of them.


Sure, just look at Dr. Stephen Hawking, I think we can all say that he's a benefit to society.


I bet Hawking would rather be completely normal in every other respect and have the same mind. If we proceed with a program of eugenics to select against such diseases then people will be born who are just as gifted, but won't have the handicap.

Once people are around - deal with it - before they are around we can start using our brains to stop children from being born into tragedy.

Eugenics is necessary at some point - either that or stop using any kind of medication for disease and just let people freaking die so they can't breed and perpetuate their sickness on innocent children because of their own selfish desire to propagate themselves.

Why would anyone want to be born handicapped in any way - people who were never born don't complain about it.

Life is suffering, the dead don't suffer, neither do those who never were (because the parents decided to adopt or something because they carry genetic flaws).

I certainly believe people can be morally killed for certain reasons - and abortion is certainly killing, but having a child who is not loved is a worse crime.

People have this stuck in their head that killing is bad - then those same people say "SEND TROOPS TO IRAQ!" " SEND TROOPS TO AFGHANISTAN". Then off those guys go - and kill millions of perfectly healthy people, creating untold human misery - for the profit of a few.

Then if you ever say anything bad about the US military - they will jump on you like you told the Pope to go fk himself. When is it complicity? When are you not responsible for endorsing or carrying out acts to promote human suffering? When you are told its protecting your country, and your too brain-dead and brainwashed to realize the truth?

People should have a good think about their values and try for some consistency. Their are good reasons for killing some people - but you might want to have a think about what makes a good reason.

A reason to kill is to prevent human suffering - by killing a sociopath who has shown a record of causing human suffering (like the secret controllers), or killing an unborn child if it is going to be born in suffering, or killing someone who is already suffering and wants to die.

These are all moral reasons to kill. Killing an unwanted baby may sound selfish - but abandoning a child, or mistreating it is worse - better that it dies before it suffers needlessly. You can't legally enforce love and affection.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by Amagnon
You can't legally enforce love and affection.


There is a workaround however. There are long lines of loving Parents just waiting to adopt infants. You would kill a child simply to avoid the bother of the Adoption process?



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


Not to get off track, but in one of your earlier posts you mentioned soilent green. I thought you were making fun of me, but then I thought about how to make this a valuabe process. Not so much soilent green, but we could harvest the orgrans out of the people after they are terminated or right before.. however it works best.





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