The best way to ease the burden on global society is to eliminate the American middle class. There should only be two classes in that country. Rich and poor.

And oh, the UK, too.

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
I love the sarcastic remarks in your post, wonderful, although I don’t think the liberals here will find your post amusing.

I hate the term "liberal" and "republican".... it is just a way for them to keep us divided and bickering amongst ourselves. The real fight is between an individualist and collective mindset in my opinion, everything else is just a label.

Justsomeboreddude, you're making sense, if someone is pro-choice, then they really need to embrace the whole spectrum of pro-choice ideas. I, for one, applaud you for embracing this difficult topic.

Strangely enough, no pro-choice people seem to agree with the caricatural points you are trying to make by mascarading as one of them. Maybe this means that you misunderstand their positions and arguments, and therefore this little experiment is only going to prove something about you. You can't understand other people, because your brain keeps taking short-cuts and coming to A+B= Z type conclusions. Not trying to be hurtful, here.

(edit because I can't spell)

[edit on 21-5-2009 by Ismail]

Hello there justsomeboreddude.

I have found you and your post very progressive and well thought out since I have started coming here to ATS. I must commend you on your open mindedness and willingness to see the other side. So on to your post...

I too am pro-choice, I am also for 'dying with dignity'. We should never really see abortion as an option out of convienience or thru lack of proper responsibility. (no birth control being used is what I mean) However, it is a bi-product. There are people who use abortion as a form of birth control, and no I dont think it should be that way... but thats the rub, innit?... where the pro-choice comes from. Because how I feel should not affect you or your body.

There are women in the world, very strong women, who can carry to term and then have the baby put into the adoption system. Those women are to be commended. But by no means is abortion an easy choice. And those women should be helped in any way it is possible. To some people it seems that abortion is the 'easy' choice. But its not! It is prolly one of the hardest decision ever made.

I will put in on a personal note... It was a hard 'choice' to have my daughter who is a product of rape. It was even harder to see her taken away from me by the man who raped me. Yes, thats right, I lost her to my rapist. I thought I was a strong woman, I thought having her (dont get me wrong I wouldnt trade her for the world!!!!) was the strong choice. I thought my rights would be protected. They were not. So looking back.. I still would have had her. But I thank my higher power and the gov. for giving me that 'choice'.

I think it should also apply to persons with life altering diseases. I think people should be allowed to die with dignity. I think THEY should choose when 'enough is enough'. But I dont think we should end live ad-hoc.

I commend you for changing your views. It is what makes this country strong. The ability to change your mind and opinions. So, I stand and applaud you,

♥
Dax

I just have to say I think it's hysterical how many folks don't seem to get the OP.

It's interesting to see how they respond to what they think they are responding to.

Flag for that alone.

I can see the OP has thought this out, and done some soul searching to come to conclusions he has come to, I can respect that.

I am pro choice, pro- end of life freedom of choice ( control over your own death ), however I am not in anyway supportive of Eugenics. There are two reasons for this.

Firstly, There is no one trustworthy, moral and pure enough to make the determination of who is worthy enough of life and procreation.

Secondly, Eugenics is a program with which I am intimatley familiar. My mother was a victim of a program called " Kinder Der Landstrasse". It started in the early 20th century - The Swiss had a problem with their Gypsies - They just didn't want to settle down and be like everyone else. Studies were done and it was determined that it was due to a genetic disposition to thievery, sexual promiscuity, and mental illness. Their solution was to stop the most offensive and strong genetic lines. My family was singled out as having a especially virile gene and marked for elimination.

My mother and all her siblings were taken away and raised in "homes". They were studied. They were experimented on. I have a report which was written when my mother was three years old - In it, Professor Sigreid determined that " Even at such a young age the subject exhibits sexual perversion and mental processes which differ fundamentally from a normal child"

She was three.

Many of the "kinder der Landstrasse" were sterilized in the hopes that thier genetic lines would be extingushed - Luckily, my mother escaped that fate, but many did not.


The program was eventually disbanded in 1973. It's one of Switzerland's dirty secrets.

Please, before you take the flag of Eugenics to heart and wave it, I ask that you research some of the history of Eugenics.

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
Let me start off by telling you a little about myself. Until recently, I was an ardent Pro-Life supporter, but I recently came to learn that Pro-Choice was better for all involved. It was hearing the arguments of the other side that made me realize my error. I am sure you know what they are... a woman should have control of her body, carrying an unwanted fetus for 9 months could be considered torture, the child and mother would both be better off in the long run, the child could become a financial burden to society, etc.

I have always viewed abortion as a form of murder. This may seem extreme to some, but in the end it became a positive attribute in my transition. Once I overcame the idea that it was wrong to "murder" your child, it was easy to realize the true benefits to letting go of this pro-life way of thinking. Now I was free of my own predjudices and able to find Eugenics.

I believe the best way to describe this is intra-family eugenics, meaning to only give the rights to the family of the individual that needs to be terminated for the good of the family and/or society.

Since I came to trully realize the burden of a mother carrying an unwanted child for 9 months, I began to think through all of the burdens that a family could face by an unwanted family member. For instance, we all know people who trully regretted having a certain child because of personality conflicts, high maintenance, post partum depression, etc.

Also, there are the handicapped and mentally ill individuals whose burden on their parents is sometimes overwhelming, the emotional, the feelings of failure, the financial because of medical bills, and the fact that many of them never become independent so you are responsible for them for the rest of their lives.

In addition there are the elderly and the sick...the cancer and heart patients, alcoholics, drug addicts, etc. All of these people are a potential burden to the family and/or society.

Just think of the economic savings to our society if we just terminate these burdens to society instead of trying to cure them. For instance, imagine your elderly parents who have saved their whole lives. Why should a person allow that money be used up to keep them in a rest home, when we could just terminate their lives. Wouldnt they be just as happy dead as rotting away in an overpriced nursing home?

So I say now is the time to change the laws to give people a real freedom of choice so they can have the freedom they deserve and live their lives the way they wanted to, before the tradgedy of these burdensome people entered their lives. It leaves us with a better, more healthy, more wanted group of people with the desired genetics to pass to the future. I mean wouldnt you have killed a child Hitler if you had the chance?

I envision it as taking these people to the doctor. Having the doctor administer a drug to knock them out and then proceed to terminate them through lethal injection or poison gas. Its quick its painless and they are none the wiser.

I hope you all will join me in this personal crusade to make the world a better place.


[edit on 5/20/2009 by justsomeboreddude]

[edit on 5/21/2009 by justsomeboreddude]

It makes me laugh that people have actually taken the nonsense above seriously lol

Originally posted by jjkenobi

Completely agree.

The real key to being pro choice is convincing one's self that ending the life of a "fetus" at any time prior to birth is not murder. Once that moral dilemma is overcome the door is opened for a plethora of choices that would have a positive impact on society.

Take Africa for example. How many millions of people die there from AIDS and starvation every year? How many billions of dollars go to regions in Africa to fight a losing battle? The elimination of those regions would save the suffering of millions and the money wasted there could be used for more efficient purposes.

You are right. Once you accept that a person can be terminated for the good of another then it frees you up to all kinds of options to make the world better.

Your Africa example is a prime example. We could just use that money we are spending to feed them to pay them or their families to terminate one another. Then each year its less money, because its less people to feed.

I mean we all know it must be better to be dead than be hungry with flies landing on you all day. I bet if we gave them the means they would run to the doctor to be terminated.

Maybe we could do it like Operation Smile where they take that jet around the world and operate on kids. Maybe there could be a jet with a crematorium on it and they could line up to have a chance to be next. Then when the Operation Hope (i am just making up a name) doctors were done they could spread the ashes as the plane ascended out of there.

[edit on 5/21/2009 by justsomeboreddude]