Why I became the REAL Pro-Choice...Pro-Eugenics

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posted on May, 21 2009 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by ldyserenity
 


Thanks for sharing. I do understand now where you stand. I think we see things pretty similar just a few areas where we disagree. I understand where you are coming from and I respect your opinion and appreciate your input.




posted on May, 21 2009 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


I'm glad that I wouldn't have to ask a doctor to put me down if I had cancer, I can do it myself by my knowledge of herbs. And yes If I had lung cancer, I would put myself down, because I have no medical insurance and would surely be a burden on society and my loved ones, but that would be My choice. So it's personal responsibilty.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by justsomeboreddude
 


So, you're saying Euthanasia is a good thing?

Are you Dr. Jack Kevorkian?

Who are we as humans to say one person is worth less than a group?


No I am not Dr. Kevorkian, but really he was just trying to help people to avoid suffering much like myself and the rest of the people who believe in Pro-Choice. Shouldnt people have a choice to die if they want.

I am not saying we say one person is less than a group. I am saying we should give that choice to their families just like we give choice to women who are pregnant to have an abortion. We let them choose because they are the ones who must deal with the negative impact of these peoples lives.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 12:13 AM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


Yes it was very well supported before the Nazi's abused the idea. Really things like abortion are just a subform of Eugenics. Part of the Eugenics movement back in the day was to allow people to not have children that would be deemed to add to the people that are considered negative to society, like the poor and welfare recipients and the like.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 12:14 AM
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reply to post by justsomeboreddude
 


I hope you noticed I edited that so it wasn't inflammatory towards you.

I re-read it and saw how it could be perceived as an attack in derogatory form.

If you don't mind me asking, just how old are you?

Feel free to U2U it to me if you don't want to post it here.

I am 35 myself and focused on history all of my life, specifically warfare and the Art of War.

I see war as only a means of population control on a massive scale and abhor it and violence.


[edit on 21-5-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by justsomeboreddude
 


I hope you noticed I edited that so it wasn't inflammatory towards you.

I re-read it and saw how it could be perceived as an attack in derogatory form.

If you don't mind me asking, just how old are you?

Feel free to U2U it to me if you don't want to post it here.

I am 35 myself and focused on history all of my life, specifically warfare and the Art of War.

I see war as only a mean of population control on a massive scale and abhor it and violence.


Dont worry about attacking me it doesnt bother me at all. I am 41. I also see war as a means of population control. I see it as an unfortunate necessary means to an end.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 12:22 AM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


I just want you to know that I have children and they are great kids and I would never decide to terminate them. I just think we should give people the choice to do what they need to in order to have a good life and be able to succeed financially. Really I am just like most other people who are pro-choice. Many of them dont think abortion is right for them, but they think others should have the choice. You know, like a woman who doesnt have the finances to support a child, or wants to finish college, or wants to be married first, or is abused by her boyfriend. Things like that. So really what I am saying is that I am no different then most of the other people who are pro-choice. I feel like you think I am a monster but I am really no different than most people.

Also there is a view that it is better to abort a child then have it be raised in a family where it is not loved. This is the same thing. You run out of love for that handicapped child because they have stripped you of so much and so it is better for them to be terminated than suffer with their illness and the fact that you dont really love them anymore. So you just take them to the doctor. He gives them a little dose of something to knock them out and then you let their body roll on into the crematorium and walk out with the ashes.

[edit on 5/21/2009 by justsomeboreddude]



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 09:01 AM
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The best way to ease the burden on global society is to eliminate the American middle class. There should only be two classes in that country. Rich and poor.

And oh, the UK, too.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 09:46 AM
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reply to post by justsomeboreddude
 



I love the sarcastic remarks in your post, wonderful, although I don’t think the liberals here will find your post amusing.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
I love the sarcastic remarks in your post, wonderful, although I don’t think the liberals here will find your post amusing.


I hate the term "liberal" and "republican".... it is just a way for them to keep us divided and bickering amongst ourselves. The real fight is between an individualist and collective mindset in my opinion, everything else is just a label.

Justsomeboreddude, you're making sense, if someone is pro-choice, then they really need to embrace the whole spectrum of pro-choice ideas. I, for one, applaud you for embracing this difficult topic.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 10:33 AM
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Strangely enough, no pro-choice people seem to agree with the caricatural points you are trying to make by mascarading as one of them. Maybe this means that you misunderstand their positions and arguments, and therefore this little experiment is only going to prove something about you. You can't understand other people, because your brain keeps taking short-cuts and coming to A+B= Z type conclusions. Not trying to be hurtful, here.

(edit because I can't spell)

[edit on 21-5-2009 by Ismail]



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 10:38 AM
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Hello there justsomeboreddude.

I have found you and your post very progressive and well thought out since I have started coming here to ATS. I must commend you on your open mindedness and willingness to see the other side. So on to your post...

I too am pro-choice, I am also for 'dying with dignity'. We should never really see abortion as an option out of convienience or thru lack of proper responsibility. (no birth control being used is what I mean) However, it is a bi-product. There are people who use abortion as a form of birth control, and no I dont think it should be that way... but thats the rub, innit?... where the pro-choice comes from. Because how I feel should not affect you or your body.

There are women in the world, very strong women, who can carry to term and then have the baby put into the adoption system. Those women are to be commended. But by no means is abortion an easy choice. And those women should be helped in any way it is possible. To some people it seems that abortion is the 'easy' choice. But its not! It is prolly one of the hardest decision ever made.

I will put in on a personal note... It was a hard 'choice' to have my daughter who is a product of rape. It was even harder to see her taken away from me by the man who raped me. Yes, thats right, I lost her to my rapist. I thought I was a strong woman, I thought having her (dont get me wrong I wouldnt trade her for the world!!!!) was the strong choice. I thought my rights would be protected. They were not. So looking back.. I still would have had her. But I thank my higher power and the gov. for giving me that 'choice'.

I think it should also apply to persons with life altering diseases. I think people should be allowed to die with dignity. I think THEY should choose when 'enough is enough'. But I dont think we should end live ad-hoc.

I commend you for changing your views. It is what makes this country strong. The ability to change your mind and opinions. So, I stand and applaud you,


Dax



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 10:44 AM
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I just have to say I think it's hysterical how many folks don't seem to get the OP.

It's interesting to see how they respond to what they think they are responding to.

Flag for that alone.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by Finalized
 


I eat meat. Therefore I am also a cannibal.

I know that 1+1=2. I should be able to rewrite Ensteins theory of relativity because I know maths.

I am me. Other people could hurt me. I must kill everyone else.

Just a few examples to say that maybe things don't have to be as black and white as you seem to think they are. I can eat meat and not eat "all" kinds of meat. I know maths, but only basic maths. Etc... You get the point. Jumping to such manicheistic positions is plain silly.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by justsomeboreddude
 



I love the sarcastic remarks in your post, wonderful, although I don’t think the liberals here will find your post amusing.


Completely agree.

The real key to being pro choice is convincing one's self that ending the life of a "fetus" at any time prior to birth is not murder. Once that moral dilemma is overcome the door is opened for a plethora of choices that would have a positive impact on society.

Take Africa for example. How many millions of people die there from AIDS and starvation every year? How many billions of dollars go to regions in Africa to fight a losing battle? The elimination of those regions would save the suffering of millions and the money wasted there could be used for more efficient purposes.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 11:01 AM
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I can see the OP has thought this out, and done some soul searching to come to conclusions he has come to, I can respect that.

I am pro choice, pro- end of life freedom of choice ( control over your own death ), however I am not in anyway supportive of Eugenics. There are two reasons for this.

Firstly, There is no one trustworthy, moral and pure enough to make the determination of who is worthy enough of life and procreation.

Secondly, Eugenics is a program with which I am intimatley familiar. My mother was a victim of a program called " Kinder Der Landstrasse". It started in the early 20th century - The Swiss had a problem with their Gypsies - They just didn't want to settle down and be like everyone else. Studies were done and it was determined that it was due to a genetic disposition to thievery, sexual promiscuity, and mental illness. Their solution was to stop the most offensive and strong genetic lines. My family was singled out as having a especially virile gene and marked for elimination.

My mother and all her siblings were taken away and raised in "homes". They were studied. They were experimented on. I have a report which was written when my mother was three years old - In it, Professor Sigreid determined that " Even at such a young age the subject exhibits sexual perversion and mental processes which differ fundamentally from a normal child"

She was three.

Many of the "kinder der Landstrasse" were sterilized in the hopes that thier genetic lines would be extingushed - Luckily, my mother escaped that fate, but many did not.


The program was eventually disbanded in 1973. It's one of Switzerland's dirty secrets.

Please, before you take the flag of Eugenics to heart and wave it, I ask that you research some of the history of Eugenics.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
Let me start off by telling you a little about myself. Until recently, I was an ardent Pro-Life supporter, but I recently came to learn that Pro-Choice was better for all involved. It was hearing the arguments of the other side that made me realize my error. I am sure you know what they are... a woman should have control of her body, carrying an unwanted fetus for 9 months could be considered torture, the child and mother would both be better off in the long run, the child could become a financial burden to society, etc.

I have always viewed abortion as a form of murder. This may seem extreme to some, but in the end it became a positive attribute in my transition. Once I overcame the idea that it was wrong to "murder" your child, it was easy to realize the true benefits to letting go of this pro-life way of thinking. Now I was free of my own predjudices and able to find Eugenics.

I believe the best way to describe this is intra-family eugenics, meaning to only give the rights to the family of the individual that needs to be terminated for the good of the family and/or society.

Since I came to trully realize the burden of a mother carrying an unwanted child for 9 months, I began to think through all of the burdens that a family could face by an unwanted family member. For instance, we all know people who trully regretted having a certain child because of personality conflicts, high maintenance, post partum depression, etc.

Also, there are the handicapped and mentally ill individuals whose burden on their parents is sometimes overwhelming, the emotional, the feelings of failure, the financial because of medical bills, and the fact that many of them never become independent so you are responsible for them for the rest of their lives.

In addition there are the elderly and the sick...the cancer and heart patients, alcoholics, drug addicts, etc. All of these people are a potential burden to the family and/or society.

Just think of the economic savings to our society if we just terminate these burdens to society instead of trying to cure them. For instance, imagine your elderly parents who have saved their whole lives. Why should a person allow that money be used up to keep them in a rest home, when we could just terminate their lives. Wouldnt they be just as happy dead as rotting away in an overpriced nursing home?

So I say now is the time to change the laws to give people a real freedom of choice so they can have the freedom they deserve and live their lives the way they wanted to, before the tradgedy of these burdensome people entered their lives. It leaves us with a better, more healthy, more wanted group of people with the desired genetics to pass to the future. I mean wouldnt you have killed a child Hitler if you had the chance?

I envision it as taking these people to the doctor. Having the doctor administer a drug to knock them out and then proceed to terminate them through lethal injection or poison gas. Its quick its painless and they are none the wiser.

I hope you all will join me in this personal crusade to make the world a better place.


[edit on 5/20/2009 by justsomeboreddude]

[edit on 5/21/2009 by justsomeboreddude]


It makes me laugh that people have actually taken the nonsense above seriously lol



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by ImzadiDax
 


Well thanks for your post. I think everyone whether they be pro-choice or pro-life applauds you for the decision to carry your baby full term. I am sorry you had it taken away. I cant imagine how tough that was, and you should be commended for making a tough choice.

Obviously since I was formally a pro-lifer I agree that terminating one of our fellow humans should never be taken lightly. That is why I have tried to leave it to the families of the individual. Also, maybe we will have to regulate it a bit more, like a two week waiting period like they do for hand guns. That way we dont have to worry about someone being extinguished just because he upset the rest of the family.... you know like a cooling off period.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by Merigold
 


All I can say is that I am sorry that your mother was put through that. That is terrible and a prime example why it is wrong to put eugenics in the hands of governments. This is why I only want it to be an intra family choice.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by jjkenobi

Completely agree.

The real key to being pro choice is convincing one's self that ending the life of a "fetus" at any time prior to birth is not murder. Once that moral dilemma is overcome the door is opened for a plethora of choices that would have a positive impact on society.

Take Africa for example. How many millions of people die there from AIDS and starvation every year? How many billions of dollars go to regions in Africa to fight a losing battle? The elimination of those regions would save the suffering of millions and the money wasted there could be used for more efficient purposes.


You are right. Once you accept that a person can be terminated for the good of another then it frees you up to all kinds of options to make the world better.

Your Africa example is a prime example. We could just use that money we are spending to feed them to pay them or their families to terminate one another. Then each year its less money, because its less people to feed.

I mean we all know it must be better to be dead than be hungry with flies landing on you all day. I bet if we gave them the means they would run to the doctor to be terminated.

Maybe we could do it like Operation Smile where they take that jet around the world and operate on kids. Maybe there could be a jet with a crematorium on it and they could line up to have a chance to be next. Then when the Operation Hope (i am just making up a name) doctors were done they could spread the ashes as the plane ascended out of there.

[edit on 5/21/2009 by justsomeboreddude]





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