Jesus sounds too amazing

reply to post by spellbound

Matthew 15

7Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Jesus is not Christianity. Christianity is all about the commandments of men.

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers

A riddle inside a paradox inside a something else that's hard to figure out

"It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma." - Sir Winston Churchill

Jesus would not need to exist , were it not for the existence of sin. Sin is what happens to that invisible part of you, the soul, ( when people die, they lose 21 ounces on average of weight, no they don't puke, look it up, Physics has yet to explain this!!) So he even goes on to describe how there are different things that make up a person into what they are, he describes them as animals. When we lose some of ourselves from whatever damage or sin does to wear the soul down, or when we grow in a bad way to make bad decisions, he is the one who heals us, who gives us a new perfect body and mind when we die, taking only the best of what is inside us. Jesus does not look like any of the statues made of him, the best image of him is on the Shroud of Turin. He implied that heaven is not for the cynics, it is for those who want to believe!
If you need proof of God or Jesus before you will accept him, you have already proven yourself unworthy to his cause.

reply to post by MatrixProphet

I too think that there is just so much story behind the story, so to speak. I think we are on a precipice of new knowledge. I call this the real age of enlightenment. Rather than the forerunner of a couple of centuries ago

.

It seems (to me at least) that there is a thread within a thread within a thread.

I get this uncanny (illogical?) feeling that within the jesus story there is a very deep hidden message tucked away cleverly within the contolling dogma.

There is no question these days as to the parallels between jesus, krishna dyonisis et al, but what is this message ? Is it hidden in plain sight because it's so simple yet it's simplicity allows it to be, obvuscated by those with power who would keep it to themselves?

I cannot help but see a similarity beween elements of Jesus' cosmic
description, and what physicists are proposing in relation to the strange characteristics of particles.

When I first saw the latest star wars movies I was struck by the words of the character Quai Gon Jin addressing the young Anakin--

"Your focus determines your reality" he advised

How different are these words from the Jesus charcters words- -

"Whatever you should ask believing it it will be granted" or from what has been learned about the wird tendancy of particles to be affected by the observer.

Has the same message been reiterated for thousands of years, a very simple but powerful message one that would strike fear into the hearts that would seek control us ?

If we just for one minute dropped our critical thinking just like religious followers and accpeted that our focus determines our reality as truth> What do we see around us that our focus is dtermining, what are we focused on what is our conciousnes creating?

Fear, and division ?

If there is any element of truth in what I am proposing then xtianity is doing the very oposite of what the Jesus character (whether real or not) was implying.

In my humble opinion if we as a species are to continue, we must before all else rid ourselves of religions particularliy the abrahamic religions along with the way we hand over the reins of our lives to governments.

Well that's my 10 cents for today lol

reply to post by badmedia


How can you say Jesus is not about anything - that is His name, Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by badmedia

 

How can you say Jesus is not about anything - that is His name, Jesus Christ.

I didn't say Jesus is not about anything. I said Christianity isn't really about Jesus, and Jesus would never go along with Christianity.

There is a difference in the religion of Jesus, where one follows and acts as Jesus does, and the religon about Jesus, which is focused on "Jesus" the person/idol and merely gives lip service.

When I look at the history of Christianity, I see a bunch of people doing things on the path of death and destruction in the name of Jesus. But their actions/fruits have nothing to do with Jesus.

Christianity as a whole can expect to hear Matthew 7. Obviously there are exceptions and I'd even say most are generally good people. After all, you don't need to deceive bad people in order to get them to do bad things, only good people.

It is pretty clear when you do as is said and look at peoples fruits rather than the name they do things in. Also in Matthew 7.

reply to post by moocowman

It seems (to me at least) that there is a thread within a thread within a thread.

I get this uncanny (illogical?) feeling that within the jesus story there is a very deep hidden message tucked away cleverly within the contolling dogma.

This is exactly what I believe. Suppose there is a Game going on and it is one that we have a hard time defining. It is not a game in a deviate sense but one that The Gods can determine where people will go with their beliefs.

It is my firm conviction (you may be aware of them because of my threads are an indicator, hehehe) that The Gods, or God, set man up to fail with religion to see if he would again fall into the trap. Man did with Moses, and all the rules, why not again?

I don't think that Jesus approved of Paul at all, and that Paul was an unknowing trap in the whole scheme and was in reality a conman. Here is my thread for anyone who is interested in seeing a different side to the whole Jesus, Judas and Paul story...Was Judas the Traitor a Good Guy While Paul a Bad One?

There is no question these days as to the parallels between jesus, krishna dyonisis et al, but what is this message ? Is it hidden in plain sight because it's so simple yet it's simplicity allows it to be, obvuscated by those with power who would keep it to themselves?

If there is a heavenly congress "Game" going on, I think it helps us to understand The Gods in a different light, and not one, of our former religious understanding. This is why I believe the light is greater now than in the past. Ironically, the Bible uses the term; "contest" regarding what humans would be going through. It is one of the "clues" I have found in the Bible that makes the Bible so fascinating.

So yes, there are clues or messages in front of our faces but we cannot see them through the fog. We must rid ourselves of the fog, or filters, first.

I cannot help but see a similarity beween elements of Jesus' cosmic
description, and what physicists are proposing in relation to the strange characteristics of particles.

When I first saw the latest star wars movies I was struck by the words of the character Quai Gon Jin addressing the young Anakin--

"Your focus determines your reality" he advised

How true! There were also many messages in Babylon 5, and Star Trek The Next Generation.

How different are these words from the Jesus charcters words- -

"Whatever you should ask believing it it will be granted" or from what has been learned about the wird tendancy of particles to be affected by the observer.

Has the same message been reiterated for thousands of years, a very simple but powerful message one that would strike fear into the hearts that would seek control us ?

If we just for one minute dropped our critical thinking just like religious followers and accpeted that our focus determines our reality as truth> What do we see around us that our focus is dtermining, what are we focused on what is our conciousnes creating?

I would love for you to expand on this further!

Supposing The Gods are not cruel, but are "playing" indifferent? Here is where free will comes in. They won't alter our consciousness, but are putting messages out there for those of us who are transcending man's beliefs, and structures, to explore higher levels of understanding? The Gnostic's believed this, but with some hindrance because of structured beliefs, but the principle is there.

Fear, and division ?

If there is any element of truth in what I am proposing then xtianity is doing the very oposite of what the Jesus character (whether real or not) was implying.

Control!!! Organized religion has its control issues as does politics.

Paul took control of Christianity and invented it! He rarely included Jesus into the scheme. Man fell for the trap! They had an opportunity after Jesus lived to explore life HIS way, but knowing that they wouldn't. It was all part of the Game.

In my humble opinion if we as a species are to continue, we must before all else rid ourselves of religions particularliy the abrahamic religions along with the way we hand over the reins of our lives to governments.

We need to transcend the NEED for controllers in our lives. I absolutely believe that we have entered a significant time in history. The answer isn't as atheists believe; get rid of God! HE isn't the problem! How man DEFINES God, is the problem.

I have a feeling that we are going to be more acquainted with HIM now and in the future. All will become more evident.

Well that's my 10 cents for today lol

Ditto!!

Didn't read through all the pages, so this may be redundant.....

Ok here goes. If Jesus has so little proof of existing then who wrote the story of Jesus?

They would have to be one amazing author to write such things.

Jesus' life is told be several authors. Remember, the Bible is a collection of books by several authors (Book of Luke, Book of John, Book of Matthew, etc., etc.) Also, the Roman historian Josephus' mentioned him.

What an amazing human being they describe. Healing sick people, kicking over money changing tables at a temple, questioning religious figures, caring for the poorest of the poor and creating food and water from thin air. Walking on water, communing with god directly, actually being a part of god I guess. He is so freaking HUMBLE and CARING. Going up to a group of people stoning a person to death and saying "he who casts the first stone..." I mean freaking WOW!

I think if there WERE a God and he DID send his son down to Earth I would want it to be THIS GUY!

Well, you wouldn't exactly write about the bad parts if you were one of his followers, now would you? I mean, you're not going to see a Jim and Tammy Baker fan write a story about the affair that brought down their church, are you?

What kind of an Author would piece together all of the things found throughout the history of religion to describe someone like this?

Who created the idea of Jesus? Who penned it? Was it more than one person who came up with the idea? Certainly no one in power would want to describe the son of god like this. Telling people NOT to give money to a church, telling people to not even GO to church.

As mentioned, many different authors, all trying to espouse how great their leader was. The people who described him weren't in power. You also have to remember, Jesus started (according to the Gospels) as a Jewish Rabbi...he was seeking to reform the church, so of course he'd encourage non-attendance.

What would be the POINT of creating this story? How could someone benefit from doing it? Are there more parts to the story being kept hidden by the church? What happened during the time he disappeared for ten years in the desert?

There are many books left out of the Bible...specifically, any not supporting his divine nature (and specifically any mention of his other family members). Remember, the divinity of Jesus was decided at the Council of Nicea, it wasn't a concensus previously, amongst religious leaders. Many other books were not included in the Bible, by group decisions.

Surely any author who was writing this story would write some wicked sick section to insert here? Help me out here fellow information seekers. Too many questions I do not understand.

Nothing that couldn't be solved with just a little research into the subject...the tales of Jesus are told by those who idolized him, and made the effort to record their impressions in the written word.

Did he exist? Who knows. I think he did. Did he really do all the things attributed to him? I doubt it, probably more like a tall tale that kept growing with time (and likely from the efforts of his mother, Mary). My general impressions from all of the books (and not just the Bible) are that he was somewhat of a reluctant leader, and was pushed more into it due to his charisma and effect on those around him. In the end, it simply got too big to reign back, so he was already on the train and had to ride it... (all just my own perception on it, of course)

reply to post by MatrixProphet





It seems (to me at least) that there is a thread within a thread within a thread.

I get this uncanny (illogical?) feeling that within the jesus story there is a very deep hidden message tucked away cleverly within the contolling dogma.

This is exactly what I believe. Suppose there is a Game going on and it is one that we have a hard time defining. It is not a game in a deviate sense but one that The Gods can determine where people will go with their beliefs.

Perhaps a game is all we are experiencing, perhaps it is we who are the gods subdivisions of of a single source experiencing in itself (ourselves) in the drama we call life on earth.

It is my firm conviction (you may be aware of them because of my threads are an indicator, hehehe) that The Gods, or God, set man up to fail with religion to see if he would again fall into the trap. Man did with Moses, and all the rules, why not again?

Here I can't relate at the moment, if I am to accept that there is a god IE a single source creator of all that there is. Then my reasoning doesn't allow me to conclude that it would find it necessary to test and such as this requires a judging creator. To me at least, a judging creator would seem illogical, if we are to accept that any creator is pure compassion.


My reasoning takes me to the same place every time, IE there is no creator and all that there is, is much as described by the proponents of evolution.

Or; there is a creator, and all that there is is the creation of this creator, logically then all that there is, is in fact the creator itself. The created cannot be separate from the creator, as this would imply something else, something other than the creator which would be impossible if the creator is the source of all that there is.

Logically (well my strange logic at least) if we are to accept that there is a creator (a god) then the creator cannot be judgmental, this would be impossible because, if the creator is all that there is, then this would imply it judging itself.

For the creator to be self critical, then this would imply a lack of perfection and a lack of anything would then imply the creator not being all that there is.


It would appear then that, the only traps that are set are the traps we set for ourselves to experience the drama we call life on earth.

I often watch my son (ok I play too lol) play Star Wars on his x box now let's pretend for a moment he actually wrote the game program for this game he loves so much.

My son has now created an imaginary world with imaginary characters, he can guide and control any of a multitude of characters and and equipment with a multitude of outcomes.

He could probably play the game for the rest of his life and never experience the exact same battle, as there are far too many variables in the game.

But what if my son lived for eternity ? He would soon get bored of this game in a short time, however time would have no meaning to him as he is eternal there would be just now, the moment.

So, what if my son could actually take an emotionally part of himself and implant it in the game. He could then experience all that the characters experience, he could see through their eyes hear what they hear touch what they touch and so on.

This indeed would be truly amazing, however there is a flaw with this experience. Being the writer of the game he's always aware of the illusion he created he would not be able to truly appreciate the experiences he created for himself.

He could wipe out an entire droid army in no time without feeling any fear at all, after all, what has he to fear it is a game an illusion.

Here's the what if - What if mys son wrote the game so that, when he injects a portion of himself into it, he allows that portion of himself to forget who he really is, IE the programmer.

He can now truly experience the fear and such through a portion of himself that's forgotten all the "cheats" or how to kill Darth Vader the easy way.

No battle would be the same no level would be the same, an eternal variety of situations with multitudes of experiences on and on until he decides to leave the game and be complete with himself again.

Now we have a creator (god) which is (allegedly) pure compassion, how does that which is pure compassion experience what it is not (fear/hate etc)?

Is it possible that we the created, are that portion of the creator like that of my son, injected into the game with temporary amnesia so as to experience the game in its' fullest for all eternity ?

I don't think that Jesus approved of Paul at all, and that Paul was an unknowing trap in the whole scheme and was in reality a conman. Here is my thread for anyone who is interested in seeing a different side to the whole Jesus, Judas and Paul story...Was Judas the Traitor a Good Guy While Paul a Bad One?

I imagine that , in all probability paul is a fictitious character . If there is any truth to his reality then it is plain to see that this guy was out to make a name for himself.


If there is any reality to Judas then he was doing what he was created to do if one accepts that jesus is god god.

reply to post by moocowman

Perhaps a game is all we are experiencing, perhaps it is we who are the gods subdivisions of of a single source experiencing in itself (ourselves) in the drama we call life on earth.

For a game to be a game, you have to have certain restrictions on resources. Not all pieces are all powerful or all important in themselves.
If we are in a game, we are the very lowest valued ones, of many. We are not the players, who have only so much that they can focus on each piece.
The definition of a game seems to preclude that from being a possibility.
The storm is coming and it is getting dark. The farmer has opened the barn door and is walking out with a lantern and calling for his livestock to come in for shelter. Those who know his voice will hear him and enter in.



[edit on 29-5-2009 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by jmdewey60

For a game to be a game, you have to have certain restrictions on resources. Not all pieces are all powerful or all important in themselves.

I used the game as analogy, perhaps I would have better described my thoughts with "Play". I would have to disagree with any restrictions on resources If I read you correctly) if god is the creator of all that there is (assuming that there is a creator) then there can be nothing that god is not.

Thus, it is impossible for there to be any limitations on resources as this would imply that god is not omniscient. In the "Play" any restrictions are imaginary constructs designed/created, for the creator/god to experience (through us) that which it is not.

This situation I see being adequately described by the jesus character (regardless of weather his was real or not) in the division of the loaves and fish.

If we are in a game, we are the very lowest valued ones, of many. We are not the players, who have only so much that they can focus on each piece.

A game is just a game, it is played for entertainment value winners and losers are irrelevant, their just a means to an end. A sport requires winners and losers for a very different reason.

In this game/play there are no losers as losing is impossible because there is only one of us in the game/play, but has imagined an adversary in order to experience the adverse effects which are that which it is not.

The storm is coming and it is getting dark. The farmer has opened the barn door and is walking out with a lantern and calling for his livestock to come in for shelter. Those who know his voice will hear him and enter in.

That which is light cannot be dark, but it can create the illusion of darkness, however for it to experience blindness it allocates a portion of it's unlimited self to the form of a blind man.

The livestock cannot go home as they never went anywhere there is nowhere to go but everywhere to be. They cannot escape the light there is nowhere to go from it, but they can escape the darkness by simply flipping the light switch. The Darkness is but an illusion they created/co created in order to experience that which they love,IE the drama of the play/game.

It is impossible not to know the voice of the farmer because it is impossible to be separate from the farmer. The farmer is all that there is there is nothing that is not the farmer the farmer and the flock are one.

reply to post by moocowman

They cannot escape the light there is nowhere to go from it, but they can escape the darkness by simply flipping the light switch. The Darkness is but an illusion they created/co created in order to experience that which they love,IE the drama of the play/game.

What if the storm knocks down the power-lines and all of a sudden the switch does nothing?
Or to say it differently, what if the entire universe, tomorrow, ceased to exist? I mean everything. No material, or spiritual. No light, no darkness.

reply to post by moocowman

Now we have a creator (god) which is (allegedly) pure compassion, how does that which is pure compassion experience what it is not (fear/hate etc)?

Is it possible that we the created, are that portion of the creator like that of my son, injected into the game with temporary amnesia so as to experience the game in its' fullest for all eternity ?

I actually have wondered similar things myself for many years. I also questioned his love, compassion and meanness. There was something missing, hence, when I discovered The Game!

I am talking of a Game that is more of a scientific experiment. The Gods goal being: to literally through many eons, and density shifts, to create the master race.

By all history and experience, it appears that God is cruel, or really indifferent. Or that he has a set of stringent religious laws for man to be controlled by. I no longer believe any of this.

We may be at the very bottom level in human experience and consciousness. There may be many levels above us and ones that other humans have penetrated, or will penetrate. Aliens may fit in here also.

Religion is a start to acquaint us with these entities, but being in the lowest level of consciousness, and perhaps even the lowest of universes, or densities, it hasn't evolved the way it should. Or perhaps the Gods knowingly allowed religion to take over, knowing that many would have the opportunity to transcend, or move beyond them.

I put all religion (incl. atheism) on the most bottom level of human experience. Both are starting points, but not at the evolved level of understanding that The Gods want us to be.

So people have the opportunity to grow beyond mans teachings, and this means letting go of the many systems of belief. Who knows what man is capable of doing? Very little is understood of the human consciousness.

If we take the human element out of God and view him as a scientist, everything makes a lot more sense. God is science, and science is God, with consciousness thrown in.

If there are layers to the universe we can maybe assume that there is with God also. Perhaps this is what Jesus was really trying to show? How many times have The Gods put individuals onto the earth to show us a better way? How belligerent is man?

But it is all okay, as we individually, and in our own pace, can recycle over and over, till we each grow to higher levels of consciousness. Our actions and conscience are on us, and The Gods may not actually care so much about how much we whore, drink and lie, as they know that everyone has chance upon chance in this universe, or another. They allow karma to take place, but with a happy ending, so to speak.

I do not think there is a purpose in The Gods being real judgmental. They just are scientists that are working with their experiment and moving us around to create the best. Man learns, man moves up. Those that don't, get another chance.

This is where our DNA, retina and thumb print come in (impossible IMO without God to intervene in evolution - too much fairy dust to be by chance). They are memory tags for the Gods to rebirth us into another chance, or life after ours, to refine us, to achieve their ends in creating a master race.

Heady, I know. But it is my life to make sense of something so meaningless as life tends to be, and so destructive. There IS more to it, IMO.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Or to say it differently, what if the entire universe, tomorrow, ceased to exist? I mean everything. No material, or spiritual. No light, no darkness.

Then the only response to that my friend has to be, So what ?

However, seeing as we are but one of many universes then then there doesn't appear to be much chance of existence becoming non existence.

reply to post by moocowman


lol, you are much much closer than you think when you talked about your son creating a program, putting himself into it and then forgetting everything.

That is actually the truth of the matter as I was shown. If you hear people talk about they have an experience and in it there is a point they can not go beyond, it's generally because the limited perception and knowledge required to experience this reality would be lost. Then you could no longer exist in this reality. So if they go beyond that point, they can not come back.

Because if you have more memories etc, then the experience itself changes. You then have the experience plus the perspective, and it would be a completely different experience in itself.

Take a topic like reincarnation. If it was true, then whatever the new incarnation would be, it would have to not have any previous memory. If it doesn't have previous memory, then it becomes that experience + the past experiences. Which isn't "bad" if it was true or happened, it would just be a completely different experience. If you died and was reincarnated as a bird for example, if you remembered your life as a human, then you wouldn't really be a bird, or having the experiences of a bird. You would be a human in a birds body. I don't really get into reincarnation topic much, as we are all incarnations of the same spirit in the first place, so whats the difference?

But based on past discussions with you, it seems like you are starting to understand the difference between consciousness/soul and creation/physical.

Other things you mention. God not being judgemental, it would be just judging yourself. This is exactly true. When you judge others, then you are judging yourself. Not to be confused with using good judgment, which is wisdom and good.

As for what is perfect. The father perspective(ie the programmer before reducing knowledge for the experience) is the only thing complete, aka perfect. Knowing all and so forth. It is our imperfections that make us unique, and that make each experience unique. It's really just a matter of being someone who can live peacefully and among others peacefully as far as how you can be "perfect".

But what you say about injecting into the game with temporary amnesia, that is the case. That is the father/son relationship. Father = programmer/creator. Son = individual soul/consciousness within the creation. Father is much greater than son, knows all and so forth. Son is that which experiences it.

However, you mentioned a thread within a thread, within a thread. How about a game, within a game, within a game? This is why I no longer have any desires to create ai that is actually intelligent. At some point I have to add my consciousness into it, at which point I realize I am only doing something that is already done. If I had continued, and by some odd miracle I was successful, then I would have created yet another game within the game, within the game and so on.

If you were to go by the bible, it suggests a game within a game, within a game. Current game being gaining knowledge of good vs evil. Little less scary when you realize in the end, you will be fine. Just kind of worry about bad experiences etc.

I find it amusing (evidence of humans in his region at that time) he looked nothing like he is depicted. Tall, skinny, glowing white skin, angelic flowing long hair, blue eyes, etc. When in reality he was a short black dude with pubic like curly hair and scruffy black beard. The marketing behind Jesus is every ad agencies dream success story.

[edit on 30-5-2009 by contemplator]

Originally posted by contemplator
I find it amusing (evidence of humans in his region at that time) he looked nothing like he is depicted. Tall, skinny, glowing white skin, angelic flowing long hair, blue eyes, etc. When in reality he was a short black dude with pubic like curly hair and scruffy black beard. The marketing behind Jesus is every ad agencies dream success story.

Looks don't make a person, their actions do. What he looked like isn't even close to be important. It really doesn't even matter if he was real or not. Such things are hardly the point.

And yes, that says alot about the people who would change his looks and those who worry about his image. But lets said you went on and did some things that people thought was good and to be followed. Would it be your fault if people went around doing crazy things in your name, and changed what you looked like to meet their standards? And would you be to blame when they did things in your name that were completely against what you stood for?

Well, think on it this way:

God, or The Gods, would have the ability to tweak our DNA after death rather than one being born with previous experiences, etc. Scientists will add to, and take away, from experiments that which they know no longer works, or inhibits the test. Anything is possible.

We want to reason on "WHY" do we each have not only our own DNA, but also; retina and thumb identification? God wanted, or needed to have the ability to remember us both in our corporeal bodies but perhaps after, also.

I was raised in believing that God would willingly not "Know" everything in advance. That he would be part of mans life, but would not know & would not prevent obstacles from hurting us (unless it went directly against his will). But this thinking has bothered me for decades of my life. So I decided to put that aside and to look at other alternatives.

Plus, I think that Jesus message was much different than has been passed down. I don't feel it had as much to do with a sacrificial - fulfilling of mans sins, as more of a message as to; "what NOT to do!"

reply to post by MatrixProphet

I was raised in believing that God would willingly not "Know" everything in advance. That he would be part of mans life, but would not know & would not prevent obstacles from hurting us (unless it went directly against his will).

I happen to think that God can do plenty without having things fixed and impossible to deviate from. He does not do this to have an excuse for not helping people. The universe was set up to normally operate with a certain amount of randomness, otherwise free-will would be impossible, even for God.
Now, this does not mean I have free will. Adam and Eve sold mankind's free will to the serpent in the garden in exchange for knowledge, or something like that.

reply to post by jmdewey60

I happen to think that God can do plenty without having things fixed and impossible to deviate from. He does not do this to have an excuse for not helping people. The universe was set up to normally operate with a certain amount of randomness, otherwise free-will would be impossible, even for God.
Now, this does not mean I have free will. Adam and Eve sold mankind's free will to the serpent in the garden in exchange for knowledge, or something like that.

Yes, this is familiar to me in my former religion also. It just wasn't enough to my way of thinking. There were too many unanswered questions with this view. I lived with the idea that they would never be answered but then I started viewing all of it through different eyes.

I too, feel that the more one grows spiritually, the less free will one has.