SCEPCOP ~ Debunking pseudo-sceptics., page 3
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 19 times


reply posted on 23-10-2009 @ 09:17 PM by converge
Originally posted by Skeptical Ed
However, it is also a fact that a lot of testimony has been proven false.


And I would never argue the opposite. And I didn't.

I was merely pointing out, once again, your double standards. You consider the possibility of testimony being false... when it's a, let's call it, "pro-UFO/alien" testimony. Point in case:

Originally posted by Skeptical Ed
There is no sign of any irrefutable evidence connected with claims connected with aliens. Testimony is hearsay.


Testimony is not hearsay only when it's a "pro-UFO/alien" testimony, it's hearsay either way. And yet, you're quick to accept all and any testimony that claims that nothing extraordinary happened or is happening.

I'm not arguing that somehow the "pro-UFO/alien" testimony has more weight, on the contrary - I'm pointing out that both claims, when using the same logic, have exactly the same weight.

If you throw out any conclusion of potential unexplained phenomena because there is only testimony to support it, then you have to throw out any conclusion that claims these events have an ordinary and mundane explanations based on testimony alone.

Personally, I don't advocate throwing out any case, regardless of the hypothesis being presented, until we've examined, unbiasedly the available evidence, circumstances and every aspect of a case, or a group of cases. And I most certainly won't jump to any conclusion in such a premature stage of dealing with whatever this phenomenon is.

Like what a real, worthy of the name, skeptic would do


Irrefutable testimony is what it is otherwise it would not be called irrefutable, only evidence.


Testimony only becomes irrefutable when it's supported by evidence. And the only way to do that is to actually look at the evidence.


[edit on 23-10-2009 by converge]


reply posted on 23-10-2009 @ 11:52 PM by nightmare_david
Originally posted by converge
Tell me, what irrefutable evidence does the footage of one of your alleged solid sightings provide?


You'll never get the answer to that question.

Keep in mind he has photographic and video evidence of it (six solid sightings for those who don't know) as he has said a few times, but has never shown it because he "doesn't know how to upload the stuff".

He has nothing and he's never debunked anything as he also claims. Another thing he never shows evidence of. He just likes talking about it like it's the greatest thing to ever happen in ufology, but never says what/who it was he apparently debunked. Here's proof of that:

Originally posted by Skeptical Ed
I was skeptical of certain claims being made by a UFO "personality" and my debunking him was successful. But not all skeptics are debunkers, they may just remain critical of unsubstantiated claims.


Notice that he says "ufo personality"? It's someone all of us here would most likely know of. He has also said in another thread that's it's something that would change the minds of believers. Implying that's it's something huge. Now why not say what it is and WHO he told this to? Because he knows very well we could easily look into it and verify it and prove him wrong.

Seen this other comment of his?

Originally posted by Skeptical Ed
I have not seen any examples of debunking on this forum. I have read many critical posts and replies, including mine. But debunking is another activity that results from skepticism. Debunking starts out by a skeptic smelling something wrong and and finding out why it smells.


Now that's just hilarious. Clear proof that he's never really looked through ATS.

[edit on 23-10-2009 by nightmare_david]


reply posted on 26-10-2009 @ 03:28 PM by karl 12
Originally posted by JimOberg
..which shows him to be a pompous egomaniac



Coming from you Jim,I find that somewhat ironic.


Heres another interesting statement:

“The undeniable reality is that there are a substantial number of multi-sensor UFO cases backed by thousands of credible witnesses. In the physical domain there are many photos, videos, radar tracking, satellite sensor reports, landing traces including depressions and anomalous residual radiation, electromagnetic interference, and confirmed physiological effects. Personal observations have been made both day and night, often under excellent visibility with some at close range. Included are reports from multiple independent witnesses to the same event. Psychological testing of some observers has confirmed their mentally competence. Why is none of this considered evidence?


There are over 3000 cases reported by pilots, some of which include interference with flight controls. On numerous occasions air traffic controllers and other radar operators have noted unexplained objects on their scopes. So too have several astronomers and other competent scientists reported their personal observations. Many military officials from several countries have confirmed multi-sensor observations of UFOs. The most senior air defense officers of Russia, Brazil, Belgium and recently a former Chief of Naval Operations in Chile all have stated that UFOs are real. These cases and comments are a miniscule fraction of the total body of evidence.


Of course they do not constitute irrefutable proof. However, to state there is no evidence suggestive of intelligent extraterrestrial life simply belies the facts. Decades in duration and global in nature, there are too many hard sensor data-points and millions of eyewitnesses to ignore. We certainly can debate the significance of specific data and question whether or not it establishes a causal relationship between the observations and extraterrestrial life.However, it is only through ignorance or pomposity that one can say no evidence exists.”

John B. Alexander,Ph.D.



reply posted on 29-11-2009 @ 06:24 PM by karl 12
reply to post by vance



Vance,thanks for your reply -if you click through the thread there are quite a few definitions of pseudo-scepticism for you to read.

Once you get a good understanding of the concept then I'd be quite happy to discuss why UFO cynics have got an awful lot of explaining to do when it comes to certain UFO incidents.

I'd also be interested in your opinions on this video - it would be painfully naive to think this kind of stuff doesn't go on but do you think it occurs in relation to discussion of the UFO subject and if not, why not?



Cheers.
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