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Originally posted by texastig
You should be a JW. Because what your believing goes against the scriptures. Do you attend a church? If you do, what's the name?
God was in Jesus reconciling the world back to Himself. God in Jesus was showing us how to get back to Him.
They say one thing, then say another, then they go back again to the first thing they said.
Originally posted by Bigwhammy
What you are advocating is what the gnostics believed ~ Christ was a spirit with no physical body. He rose in the flesh. Thomas even put his hand in the wound. I would abandon that position because the Bible has name for those who deny he came in the flesh...
Originally posted by Bigwhammy
A question for any Jehovah's Witness:
You believe and base many of your main doctrinal teachings on the fact that Christ returned in 1914, is that correct?
Originally posted by texastig
Ego Eimi means "I am"
In Greek, the words recorded in John 8:58 are "'prin abraam genesthai ego eimi." Literally, this is "Before Abraham was existing, I am." "Ego eimi" is literally, "I am." This is the present tense. To say "I have been" is to use the perfect tense. In Greek, his would have been "aemane." But Jesus didn't use it here. He used the present tense, "ego eimi" which is "I am."
Originally posted by miriam0566
you still didnt answer my question, why would the disciples need a sign of his presence?
Jesus’s disciples were interested in future developments. When Jesus pointed to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, they asked Him when that would happen and what would be the sign of His coming.
Fortunately they turned to Jesus who provides correct answers.
Originally posted by miriam0566lol, i already explained this to you but apparently you ignored my post
Originally posted by miriam0566
still doesnt answer my question. if jesus "presence" (as the greek puts it) was to be so obvious, why would they need a sign?
Originally posted by miriam0566
thats your answer to to list? that what im believing goes against bible?
Originally posted by miriam0566
sorry texas, but apparently you dont know how to read. john 17 ALONE smashes everything you just said.
Originally posted by miriam0566
im sorry, i honestly dont understand what you are saying, can you give an example?
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Bigwhammy
They say they lock up the "embarrassing" stuff she wrote in a vault.
These people who made this video are deceptive and why would you want to trust them.
Ellen White did not found the SDA church and was never considered the leader of it and no one considered her the authority over the church and she was actually kicked off the board of the church. She was a SDA person who wrote a bunch of books that were influential, peaking probably back in the fifties, mainly, and so what? Write your own books, anyone can do it. If your book becomes popular then woopty do for you. Why bash this woman with a third grade education who was a successful writer.
For example, I have been wrestling over Genesis 3:16. Did God curse Eve, or was he informing her to expect to have a lot of children? I pretty much came to the conclusion that it is a misinterpretation to say that God actively cursed her, from looking at the Hebrew. I did a search in Mrs. Whites writings an pulled up her stories about it and I felt somewhat vindicated to see that she does not buy into the curse thing at all. So, am I some kind of heretic to do that? Hardly!
" Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve." (1 Co 15:1-5)
"See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily," (Col 2:8-9)
θεότης thĕŏtēs, theh-ot´-ace; from 2316; divinity (abstr.):— godhead.
Strong, J. (1997, c1996). The new Strong's dictionary of Hebrew and Greek words (H8674). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
θεότης, ητος, ἡ as an abstract noun for θεός (god); divinity, deity, Godhead, divine nature (CO 2.9)
Friberg, T., Friberg, B., & Miller, N. F. (2000). Vol. 4: Analytical lexicon of the Greek New Testament. Baker's Greek New Testament library (196). Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books.
θεότης, ητος, ἡ (Plut., Mor. 415bc οὕτως ἐκ μὲν ἀνθρώπων εἰς ἥρωας, ἐκ δὲ ἡρώων εἰς δαίμονας αἱ βελτίονες ψυχαὶ τὴν μεταβολὴν λαμβάνουσιν. ἐκ δὲ δαιμόνων ὀλίγαι μὲν ἔτι χρόνῳ πολλῷ διʼ ἀρετῆς καθαρθεῖσαι παντάπασι θεότητος μετέσχον=so from humans into heroes and from heroes into demi-gods the better souls undergo their transition; and from demi-gods, a few, after a long period of purification, share totally in divinity
Thus it is intended to mean the state of being god, divine character/nature, deity, divinity
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature. "Based on Walter Bauer's Griechisch-deutsches Wr̲terbuch zu den Schriften des Neuen Testaments und der frhchristlichen [sic] Literatur, sixth edition, ed. Kurt Aland and Barbara Aland, with Viktor Reichmann and on previous English editions by W.F. Arndt, F.W. Gingrich, and F.W. Danker." (3rd ed.) (452). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
Originally posted by texastig
No one is going to loose their eternal life getting a blood transfusion. That's the most ridiculous doctrine they have. By them not letting their members get blood transfusions, the jw's have sent people to their deaths.
Originally posted by miriam0566
When someone really accepts Christ, they are immediately saved. God meets us where we are at. We don't have to goto the party.
Originally posted by miriam0566
jesus died for those that put faith in him. (john 3:16)
Wrong. Jesus died for everyone(john 3:16). Everyone who believes in Him receives eternal life.
Originally posted by miriam0566
those that put faith in god learn and each the truth (john 4:23,24)
those who put faith in god love one another (john 13:34,35)
those with faith back their faith with works (james 2: 18-20)
those with works follow jesus' command to preach (matt 28:19,20)
so yeah, if you as a christian were doing all these things then logically you would become a JW. no need to get all mad about it.
That doesn't mean you are a jw.
Originally posted by texastig
jmdewey60, Walter never said anything about basing your salvation on what kind of body Jesus had. Walter said that if Jesus wasn't resurrected then our faith is nothing. Can you watch it again to see?
Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Their spirits go to heaven instantly! Jesus said to the thief on the cross.
"And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”" (Lk 23:43)
Today (33 AD) - not in 1844.
Dangerous Cults like the Watchtower are more disgustingly vile than Satanism or Atheism because they actually fool people with good intentions into believing they are saved. But its a false gospel - with a false Christ and a bunch of false doctrines. So they are damned and believe they are saved. Its really sad.
Originally posted by texastig
Your explanation is not correct.
The Prestigious Greek Scholar Julius Mantey disagrees with you. Here's what he says and I'd believe him over anyone.
What Mantey has said about the New World Translation:
Did Jesus really say “I am?” Let us examine the context of John’s passage. The Jews questioned Jesus: “Then said the Jews to him, You are not yet fifty years old, and you have seen Abraham?” (John 8:57 KJV) This question was not about who Jesus was, but about how long he had been in existence. Jesus answered, “Before Abraham was, I have been.” In other words, “I existed before Abraham.” (This, too, is not a saying of the historical Jesus. John put it in Jesus’ mouth because he believed that Jesus pre-existed.) “I have been” is the proper translation. Why did the KJV translators rendered it “I am”? A peculiarity in the grammar of the Koine Greek presented the opportunity for the KJV translators to render this grammatically awkward phrase. The Koine Greek was a dialect inferior to the Attic Greek. In the 1st century CE, it was used mainly by non-Greeks. Being a secondary language to them, they compromised several of its grammatical rules. One of the compromises was the lack of perfect tense for the verb “to be” (“I have been”). John, like the rest of the New Testament writers, used the Koine Greek. He meant to write “I have been.” But because the Koine had no perfect tense, he had to use the present tense, “I am” (Gr. ego eimi). The English language, though, has a perfect tense to accommodate the meaning intended by the writer. However, the KJV translators declined to use the intended meaning of the phrase because by translating it as “I am” it sounds like the “I am” of Exodus 3:14. They used the similarity of these English words to promote the belief that Jesus is God. But this similarity is merely a play on words, created by translators. (The Hebrew word “haw-yaw” has nothing to do with the Greek words “ego eimi.”)
Originally posted by miriam0566
still doesnt answer my question. if jesus "presence" (as the greek puts it) was to be so obvious, why would they need a sign?
I guess I don't understand what your asking. I thought I answered your question.
lol, i already explained this to you but apparently you ignored my post in Koine, PRESENT PERFECT DOES [B][U]NOT[/B][/U] HAVE THE SAME SIGNIFICANCE AS PRESENT PERFECT IN MODERN GREEK.
"So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple." (Jn 8:57-59)
"but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.” Again they sought to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands." (Jn 10:38-39)
"And the scribes and the Pharisees began to question, saying, “Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”" (Lk 5:21)
"The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”" (Jn 10:33)
No I didn't. The SDA church did not exist until after 1844, so they did not set a date for Christ's return, that was Miller, who was not an SDA.
Actually your responses have been deceptive, defending the date setting - then claiming there was no date setting , then explaining it as meaning something different from the original prediction, then they weren't really part of your church - excuses ad infinitum!
There is a curse of sin, taken in a broader sense of the word. But God was not pronouncing a curse on Eve in particular in Genesis 3:16. It was being informed to her that she would have many offspring in her life, not spaced out through eternity, like would have happened if she had not fallen under the rule of sin.(I would like to invite you to argue against that, from the Hebrew.)
This is a prime example. You are completely deceived and her head injury induced Satanically inspired ramblings are only encouraging your apostasy.
If there was no curse - the cross was a waste if time. Because you are not under the curse of sin, so you should be able to achieve salvation entirely on your own. You don't need Jesus to remove what never existed. Good luck with that. Or better yet ...leave the cult and accept Christ as your savior.
"καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν, καὶ εἶπεν Οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ισραηλ Ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέν με πρὸς ὑμᾶς." (Ex 3:14)
Lexham LXX Interlinear | The Lexham Greek-English Interlinear Septuagint
"εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς· ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί." (Jn 8:58)
NA27 | Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament, 27th Edition
There is a curse of sin, taken in a broader sense of the word. But God was not pronouncing a curse on Eve in particular in Genesis 3:16. It was being informed to her that she would have many offspring in her life, not spaced out through eternity, like would have happened if she had not fallen under the rule of sin.
"To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”" (Ge 3:16)
This entire line of reasoning is a rather pointless bit of sophistry because the Pharisee's obviously understood it to be a claim to being God!
I think it's quite disturbing that you side with the Pharisees and not with Jesus.