Originally posted by emsed1
I am finding out some amazing things in Freemasonry that were never revealed to me in my progress through the Craft. It's not because they were being withheld, but because they have been forgotten.

Thank you, sir. Your post caught my attention. Excellent post.

Originally posted by emsed1
I am also starting to understand the arguments about Pike and the inner/outer, higher/lower aspects of Freemasonry and it makes perfect sense, but not in the way conspiracists would have you believe.

The conspiracists have distorted essential principles? I'd never believe that.

Originally posted by emsed1
There is no high level cabal that exists to hand over the mysteries of time and universe. The mysteries ARE THERE though, but they cannot be given, only sought.

Sought? Sought within? If that is what you mean it is another common theme. From a Maban-ish perspective, I'd say we're pre-loaded with hidden software that we have to learn how to activate.

Originally posted by emsed1
Here are some common ideas.

1 - People have spirits or souls

Do people have spirits or souls or are we spirits/souls inhabiting, polar, temporal nature and bodies are a tool of animal nature?

Originally posted by emsed1
2 - We have been separated from an omnipresent benevolent force and we long to return

Some are literally afraid to return. Guess who they are (no, not Remnants, silly).

Originally posted by emsed1
3 - We have ability far beyond what we commonly perceive

Sure. What is the true meaning of "ability" in this context?

Originally posted by emsed1
4 - We have (either by choice or tragedy) 'lost' the information that will allow us to return to our true nature

If it is 'lost', we're hosed and cannot return to our true nature. This makes seeking futile. However, 'Lost' may mean 'concealed'. 'Concealed' may mean 'out in the open'. 'Out in the open' may mean 'within'.

Originally posted by emsed1
5 - It is inherent in our nature to create, learn and be kind

This is very true. Many rebel out of fear of returning. It is perceived as annihilation. Indidividuality is held in highest regard. Conflict preserves individuality (thus duality).

Originally posted by emsed1
6 - Groups of men have given up on searching for what is lost and now desire to control what is temporal.

Lazy buggers. I am guessing they never found it because it would remain hidden in plain sight, hidden by their own lust for power. I guess that is why it cannot be given, only sought. I think there is a blinder program running for protection.

Originally posted by emsed1
7 - What was lost has been guarded throughout our history by stewards so that it might not be used nefariously.

I think many searching indeed had plans to do so and were deceiving themselves. Unfortunately, it multiplies the difficulty of the quest for those who really care for understanding more than power.

Originally posted by emsed1
8 - our ultimate survival depends on our ability to turn this world into a peaceful, vibrant civilization.

Not much to say here in this context other than to say that many wish to continue the loop in a stagnant repitition of old. I have obtained a glimpse of the future, what it really means and how things shift. I think we'll be alright.

One thing I would like to ask Maban about is the language of the birds. It was supposed to be the language of the angels and was a language that was a true reflection of reality that would reveal the most hidden truths. I happened to catch The Exodus Decoded and noticed that the image of what could be the Ark of the Covenant along with the sacrifical alter in a head-on perspective had birds on it rather than the usual kerubim.

Maban said the Enlighten Ones evolved from birds and that their language was almost a reflection of reality itself.

Mathematics is imbued with the reflective (precision analog) property but it still seems an incomplete description.

Then again, we're supposed to strip away the myths, right? Even Maban's?

I am finding out some amazing things in Freemasonry that were never revealed to me in my progress through the Craft. It's not because they were being withheld, but because they have been forgotten.

Hmmm, this sounds interesting. Do I have to be a Freemason to obtain the same information? A little guidance would be appreciated.

I am also starting to understand the arguments about Pike and the inner/outer, higher/lower aspects of Freemasonry and it makes perfect sense, but not in the way conspiracists would have you believe.

In my earlier years his comments about such things disturbed me. If a person is looking for something, with a certain mind set they will find it. Yet they failed to read the rest of the book seemingly.

The way I see it now is Pike was speaking of a Mason's leveling of understanding. There will be those who treat Freemasonry has a nice place to get a beer and hang out with there buddies. While there are others who are there to grow, seek knowledge, ect. So the end result will be some who have a greater understanding, greater growth because of the effort they put into it.

This is a non-Mason point of view, but that is my understanding.

There is no high level cabal that exists to hand over the mysteries of time and universe. The mysteries ARE THERE though, but they cannot be given, only sought.

Ah yes, this is very true.

I remember reading somewhere on this forum that it is not necessary to join Freemasonry to grasp the same understanding as a Mason but it makes your trip a hell of a lot easier. That Freemasonry is essentially like a college, that you are around other like minded individuals so seeking out such things is much easier.

I am kind of bent on the whole issue, it's still up in the air if I'll join one day or not.

Maban talked about three original truths. I believe these are the same three truths given mankind at the beginning of our history. He said we would not be able to handle them at our stage of human development and our world and our society would collapse. I know now (a small bit) of why this is true.

I suspect one of these truths would be something along the lines that would essentially be in direct conflict with just about every major religion out there. I mean that's the way that I took it. My theory is that one of these truths is the idea that we were created/manipulated genetically from aliens or we originated from another part of the universe.

What else would be so drastic, such a revelation which a group or groups would fear it would collapse society.

Such ideas have been around for some time and this idea is nothing new for me at least.

In some versions of history the "knowledge/gnosis/word/logos/truth/light" is LOST and our purpose as living beings on this world, above all else, is to find it.

Yes, we were created for a reason and these comments really resonated with me. I can only speak for my self but I have a big suspicion the same feelings exist in every person.

I suspect this is why so many people live seemingly without a purpose and direction. There is a void in there lives because they are not doing what they were made to do. This applies to a pour man to a rich man. It's not a materialistic goal and for many it's very difficult to ever reach a conclusion to what it is they are looking for because they are using the wrong set of eyes.

In the other common version of history the "truth/light/gnosis" etc. was not lost, rather it was HIDDEN due to an uprising in mankind that would wreak havoc, evil and destruction were they to obtain it.

I think I have an idea what your speaking about, I let this comment play out and see where it goes.


[edit on 21-9-2009 by oconnection]

Originally posted by oconnection
The way I see it now is Pike was speaking of a Mason's leveling of understanding. There will be those who treat Freemasonry has a nice place to get a beer and hang out with there buddies. While there are others who are there to grow, seek knowledge, ect. So the end result will be some who have a greater understanding, greater growth because of the effort they put into it.

This is a non-Mason point of view, but that is my understanding.

I have entertained a similar understanding in the recent past. The former are the "low-level" Masons and the latter are the "high-level" Masons. Those low-level guys really don't know who the high-level one's are and those high-level guys really do know how to control those in the lower eschelons of the pyrimid. The excessively mundane interpretation of the conspiracy crowd is accurate but on a profane level of understanding.

Originally posted by oconnection
I am kind of bent on the whole issue, it's still up in the air if I'll join one day or not.

I'll never join if I were to be in any way restricted by oath from discussing knowledge with those "outside". The rituals I wouldn't care about as that is personal business. However, the knowledge therein is for all. The only barrier I am comfortable with is myself, working with my own sense of conscience. If anything is going to pretend to be above me and control me like that, I will graciously decline regardless of how much I am "accelerated".

Originally posted by oconnection
I suspect one of these truths would be something along the lines that would essentially be in direct conflict with just about every major religion out there.

I'm both fundamentally in conflict and fundamentally at peace with every major religion out there. It's because they don't really matter.

(I'm happy to see you and emsed1 helped to get this thread get resuscitated.)

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
I have entertained a similar understanding in the recent past. The former are the "low-level" Masons and the latter are the "high-level" Masons. Those low-level guys really don't know who the high-level one's are and those high-level guys really do know how to control those in the lower eschelons of the pyrimid. The excessively mundane interpretation of the conspiracy crowd is accurate but on a profane level of understanding.

Like with all good conspiracy theories there are usually lines of truth here and there.

I'll never join if I were to be in any way restricted by oath from discussing knowledge with those "outside". The rituals I wouldn't care about as that is personal business. However, the knowledge therein is for all. The only barrier I am comfortable with is myself, working with my own sense of conscience. If anything is going to pretend to be above me and control me like that, I will graciously decline regardless of how much I am "accelerated".

I thought you were a Mason, I guess I got my facts mixed up in some way. Either way it doesn't matter.

I'm both fundamentally in conflict and fundamentally at peace with every major religion out there. It's because they don't really matter.

I believe they matter because they are important to so many. I've learned over the years that when you are speaking about a person's religion or set of beliefs you are in close contact with there feelings. At the same point it's difficult to have a conversation with such types because they tend to be rather closed minded when it comes to "spiritual topics"

When countless numbers have lost there lives over religion it is obviously one of the greatest forces at the same time, sadly it can be one of the greatest of evils.

I'm on the same page, they don't matter to me personally but rather they matter to those around me.

(I'm happy to see you and emsed1 helped to get this thread get resuscitated.)

I'm also happy, I was sad to see this thread die off for a bit. I hope we can have some of the old characters get involved and of course any new comers are welcome!

Originally posted by oconnection
I thought you were a Mason, I guess I got my facts mixed up in some way. Either way it doesn't matter.

You aren't the first to wonder. I don't know exactly what gives me the Masony touch to the non-Masons. I have received U2U's asking me to give answers about the meaning of Masonic regalia and other things but I have to disappoint them. No actual Masons have wondered to my knowledge since I'm sure it's obvious to them like a genuineness of some claiming to be a veteran is obvious to those who have served in the armed forces, the difference being that I never even claimed anything.

Originally posted by oconnection
When countless numbers have lost there lives over religion it is obviously one of the greatest forces at the same time, sadly it can be one of the greatest of evils.

So all the death and destruction is seen as an investment awaiting a return? I'd say it's time to cut the losses and get out of that failing market. If it could only be made clear to all what they could be investing in that will yield steady and sure gains over the long term rather than holding onto a Ponzi scheme.

Here's a thought to ponder:

What if we ARE God? Not just people with pieces of God inside us, but what if we are collectively the creators? Perhaps we made this puzzling world to experiment in and gave up our true nature for a while to come down and play in the sandbox?

One account, by Edward Carpenter, an author: (forgive large quote)

There is in every man a local consciousness connected with his quite external body. That we know. Is there not also in every man the making of a universal consciousness? That there are in us phases of consciousness which transcend the limit of the bodily senses is a matter of daily
experience. That we perceive and know things which are not conveyed to us by the bodily eyes and heard by our bodily ears is certain. That there arise in us waves of consciousness from those around us, from the people, the race to which we belong, is also certain.

May there not then be in us the makings of a perception and knowledge which shall not be relative to this body which is here and now, but which shall be good for all time and everywhere? Does there not exist in truth,
as we have already hinted, an inner illumination of which what we call light in the outer world is the partial expression and manifestation, by which we can ultimately see things as they are, beholding all creation, not by any local act of perception, but by a cosmical intuition and prescience, identifying ourselves with what we see? Does there not exist a perfected sense of hearing as of the morning stars singing together, an understanding of the words that are spoken all through the universe, the hidden meaning of all things, a profound and far-pervading sense of which our ordinary sense of sound is only the first novitiate and intuition?

Mr. Carpenter refers elsewhere to "that inner vision which transcends sight as far as sight transcends touch" and to "a consciousness in which the contrast between the ego and the external world and the distinction between subject and object fall away." These are surely the words of one who has himself undergone this experience. Carpenter, however, is careful to warn
us that we are not to suppose that people who have this experience are in any way to be regarded as infallible as to its exact meaning. "In many cases indeed" he remarks, "the very novelty and strangeness of the experience may give rise to phantasmal trains of delusive
speculation"

[edit on 9/22/09 by emsed1]

Originally posted by emsed1
Here's a thought to ponder:

What if we ARE God? Not just people with pieces of God inside us, but what if we are collectively the creators? Perhaps we made this puzzling world to experiment in and gave up our true nature for a while to come down and play in the sandbox?

We are told in Jewish faith as well as the Christian that we were created in the image of God. While I believe we have divine properties, I personally have difficulty accepting that I am God. I have far too many flaws to even speculate that I personally could be God as well as those around me.

To me this idea sounds similar to the ideas of Satanism. But I could be wrong, ill informed, ect.

I personally believe like I said above, that we in fact were created from God in his image. With that said we do have much influence on above as well as below.

I fail to see how mass starvation, wars, sickness, ect is in any way as a form of "playing" in the sandbox. If we came here by choice, is all suffering a product of coming down to Earth? This idea is troublesome indeed.

I've heard this idea before, please elaborate further so I can understand a bit more.

In my experience in the last few years in American Masonry we have become much more of the charitable social club and much less about learning whatever truths are hidden there.

I'm really sad to hear that, a once great organization turned into a "charitable social club". Is this due to lack of members, the scrutiny from the public, loss of interest?

[edit on 22-9-2009 by oconnection]

Originally posted by emsed1
Here's a thought to ponder:

What if we ARE God? Not just people with pieces of God inside us, but what if we are collectively the creators? Perhaps we made this puzzling world to experiment in and gave up our true nature for a while to come down and play in the sandbox?

I always felt I royally botched the whole thing! Sorry! My bad!

But, it's an idea that had been with me for a long time before I found those special types of philosophy heretical enough to be a good match to my thinking over the years.

However, as Atkinson had put it, to declare one's self THE God is like the cell calling itself the man. It is delusional yet partly correct.

One's true divinity may be fully realizable but it is an abomination to deny the same of others. As such, we are collectively the creator, creating through him, by him and for him. Some manifestations have been caught up in the material to such a degree that all sense of connection and shared consequence has been lost to them. They stand squarely in opposition to their true nature, wishing to remain entangled at all costs, some realize and then consider themselves and everyone a god rather than collectively the one.

And so, truely it is a finer line between Satanism and the opposite than most would like to admit. It is no absolute, either/or scenario. What it ends up being is whatever the seeker becomes after the realization.

What we seem to be nearing/in is a period of burn out of certain forms of experience and will be moving on to new ones. Like during meditation, when certain thoughts arise in the mind, in order to learn the greatest lesson, you hold them, grok them, experience them in many ways and let them go, often painfully-- purification.

Ah the conversations we have on ATS are unlike any I have in the real world.

This whole idea perplexes me to say the least, I'm a bit speechless and I'm having difficulty responding. I've had some crazy experiences, yet this idea has never come to thought. It's strange and if enough people believed it, it would have an extreme affect on society. So I think the idea is up there for one of the Three Secrets.

1) We are God
Man I hope we don't have the extreme religious types around these parts, there eyes may bleed.

2) Any ideas?

You'll have to excuse my skepticism but I think most people would be skeptical to the truth of "We are God". I will put forth my efforts to do my best to consider the possibility. Emsed1, more posting, less silence. =)

[edit on 24-9-2009 by oconnection]

Originally posted by oconnection
Ah the conversations we have on ATS are unlike any I have in the real world.

Back in the day, we'd all have to deal with the Church on the matter. The subject hardly seems taboo around here. The metaphysics forum should be interesting. The message comes in many forms.

1) We are God
Man I hope we don't have the extreme religious types around these parts, there eyes may bleed.

Well, you know, if as an expression of God, the ALL, etc. they wish to have that response they are welcome to it. I am grateful we can have this discussion and not be burned at the stake. That is tangible progress.

What happens when they find out that their own religions actually tell them that? Yeah, never mind, the hopelessly stuck will resist waking up to their new level of understanding and declare deception by Satanists. Heresy!

Ok, fine but that sort of vehement denial really is of the same nature as staying involved in polarity and declaring one's self as God. It may be quite a shocker to certain people to wake up to which end of the balance they really give weight.

Ultimately it depends upon one's actions, even without full awareness in the matter.

Such realizations of truth are antithetical to the power of oppressive institutions, thus suppressed. We know why secret mystery schools and societies exist.

2) Any ideas?

You'll have to excuse my skepticism but I think most people would be skeptical to the truth of "We are God".

What should be clear is that there really is no alternative. If there were something "other than" God, then there would be something greater (God+other). I am not quite entirely certain what that really means for any particular human or other kind of entity in a divided world though I still seem to be in denial about much.

Generally, I don't use "God" or other names. It connotes some kind of anthropomorphic entity that makes stuff. I think that fits Jesus better than "God". He knew he and the father were one but the father still greater (did I get that right?).


[edit on 9/24/2009 by EnlightenUp]

Yes, in the sense we can speak freely about such things and not have to worry about being burned to ash is progress indeed! Some will view conversations such as these a step backwards but I doubt they were around during the Inquisition when they formed there opinions.

I personally feel I've come a long way, being raised in a very religious Christian home. Anything "pagan", out of the body experiences, meditation , ect was considered "devil worship. So I feel it's been a long road since my younger years and I've grown both mentally but very much spiritually.

Maybe one day I'll come to the realization, my mind and heart are open to new ideas and new truths. I just personally haven't achieved any type of understanding in that sense. Not that your wrong in any way, it's just my path has not brought me there.

I've calmed down my ambitions after my one "lucid dream" which I shared early in this thread. To tell you honestly It scared the crap out of me. But at the same point I feel as though I have a gift or an extra sensitivity to what's going on beyond my normal 5 senses.

When I was a child and to this day I can not watch a horror movie because to me it's not a bunch of made up characters, to me I've seen many things that are represented in such movies.

So I guess you can say my fears have hampered my progress. I guess you can say my concerns are about being possessed. So as of late it's been meditation, dreams, and visions.

I don't know how this relates to the conversation but I felt an urge to share for some reason.

Generally, I don't use "God" or other names. It connotes some kind of anthropomorphic entity that makes stuff. I think that fits Jesus better than "God". He knew he and the father were one but the father still greater (did I get that right?).

I don't know if it is believed that Jesus was less than God the Father, rather separate entities. In Christianity it is believed that God has three identities which is known as the Holy Trinity; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. It is believed that each has it's purpose, God the Father, the creator of the universe, God the Son, died for our sins so there would not be separation from God, and God the Spirit is manifested with his presence.

Yep sorry for the sermon but you asked and I went to a lot of church when I was younger.

Originally posted by oconnection
Anything "pagan", out of the body experiences, meditation , ect was considered "devil worship. So I feel it's been a long road since my younger years and I've grown both mentally but very much spiritually.

Maybe one day I'll come to the realization, my mind and heart are open to new ideas and new truths. I just personally haven't achieved any type of understanding in that sense. Not that your wrong in any way, it's just my path has not brought me there.

I do understand the cautions given regarding these subject as certain knowledge can lead one to extreme delusions, thus a diverting to a very dark path. Be ready to humble yourself. Maintain kindness and compassion instead thinking you are better than anyone else just because you got a glimpse behind a veil. Most likely you still have much to learn. Don't fall to the dark temptations.

The labelling also discourages seeking by making people afraid of the esoteric. Mind control is all that is, as usually expressed. I have a suspicion the admonitions were rewritten in stronger and stronger language, from being a fair caution to being a utterly taboo, over time for the purpose of enslavement.

Do you really think the institutions want a world full of self-realized humans? One Christ was enough to deal with already. Imagine billions of them. The banks and governments wouldn't stand a chance; I think you know that.

I've calmed down my ambitions after my one "lucid dream" which I shared early in this thread. To tell you honestly It scared the crap out of me. But at the same point I feel as though I have a gift or an extra sensitivity to what's going on beyond my normal 5 senses.

You properly ascertained it could lead you astray. Know that it is quite within your power to stay with the light. The simplest guage really is: Is it of evolution of one or involution in multiplicity?

When I was a child and to this day I can not watch a horror movie because to me it's not a bunch of made up characters, to me I've seen many things that are represented in such movies.

So I guess you can say my fears have hampered my progress. I guess you can say my concerns are about being possessed. So as of late it's been meditation, dreams, and visions.

I'm not terribly concerned about what I see or about possession now (not that I really was). Many things I used to see no longer make their presence known. Fear is the killer that allows relative dominance. The knowledge actually is protection against that or equally a means to it-- it is up to you to decide.

I don't know how this relates to the conversation but I felt an urge to share for some reason.

We got here by association so I suppose it really isn't too far off.

Yep sorry for the sermon but you asked and I went to a lot of church when I was younger.

Quite alright.

I was referring to these statements:

John 14:11 (KJV)
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

John 14:28 (KJV)
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Yeah, it would have been cooler if he talked about holographic universes, matrixes and such but he already had his work cut out for him without sounding even more utterly bizarre to the people of the time. I suspect, by following the trends, that what we say now will seem strange and highly abstract in the future, relative to our understanding.

Originally posted by emsed1
Anyway -- one thing that IS chilling is the similarity between The Lost Symbol and the stories Maban told us. In fact, substituting certain words and locations would reveal a VERY similar story. IE, 'order from chaos' vs. 'light from truth'.

Or one could say 'the all-seeing-eye from the checkered floor'. LOL.

Originally posted by emsed1
I wonder what other thoughts we could conjure up that would be as mind-blowing or society-shattering besides the realization that we are God, or the realization that we are nothing but a grand accident with a finite life? Both are terrifying if you ask me.

Then in one case you have "we are God (collectively)" in the latter you have "we become gods (individually)".

Just looked at the latest webbot report and it's ugly, but seems to resonate with some of the things Maban said, particularly about the recovery of 'alien technology'.

There are far more troubling things in there though.

It indicates a market collapse on Oct. 25th; protest and violence over swine flu vaccination; a revolutionary movement in the US; and efforts by TPTB to convince a lot of 'new agers' that they are 'special' and have 'alien DNA' and should join the govt/leaders because they are special.

This meme is supposedly already being subtly introduced in places (probably like ATS) and media.

It looks grim over the next couple of years if webbot is to be believed.

It suggests there will be two entities that are identified as 'thieves' or 'liberators of an alien device' that will steal the device and return home in glory, perhaps in late 2010.

So, my question is - do you guys give any credibility to webbot and what are your thoughts about it's predictions?