Remnants of the Illuminati

Originally posted by EnlightenUp


Rubber unfortunately won't help. I'd recommend a faraday suit.

Probably overkill in this case.

Hehe...heres an idea of what to do with the coil - and Faraday suit if you have one...which I would gather, unless he keeps chickens and part takes in medieval battle recreations Mikey may not have these lying around

gizmodo.com...

Fantastic!

I wanna go!

(Also that reminds me...I was watching Empire Strikes Back the other week which obviously features that very music, and suddenly realised that they stole that riff from My Fair Lady...'A Little Bit of (Blooming) Luck', not sure if there was a subtext to using that particular piece or whether Lucas was a Hepburn fan, too distinct to be random)

[edit on 20-7-2009 by KilgoreTrout]

reply to post by KilgoreTrout



Yes, I very well could bring it back to something dastardly again -
And also nature is a yin/yang kind of cycle that has had major parts manipulated with. If we were as a race left to our own devices, I believe there'd be a give/take with all populations. But I just don't believe that's the case.

There's a book by William Bramley - Gods of Eden - that talks about all the great wars and plagues and occurrences just prior to them happening. He was a lawyer interested in the history of war, and kept coming across a similar theme the more the researched and ended up writing this book as a result. Very good book in my opinion - and he seems very credible (I met him once at a whole life expo). There's many more books and stories out there - but yeah, I see this whole thing as manipulated as manipulated can be.

Irony is they don't need us to buy a thing - the entire currency system is what - pieces of paper with pictures? They don't need us to buy or pay taxes, it's all a scam to keep us, let's say, 'busy' at the very least? Depopulate and control the few million left, and leave the rest of the planet for the elite and nature.

Originally posted by kshaund
reply to post by KilgoreTrout

 

My cynical side (which is by far the largest side)

says the seed vault is for "them" and not "us" and Monsanto's job is to ensure what's outside the vault is lifeless food.

We'll never have those seeds - only way is to get them ourselves and save/store them but that's becoming illegal as well. NWO is alive and well... unfortunately....

I'm not aware of it being illegal to store seeds but I am aware I can not sell my produce without having a license. I have a rather large organic garden in my back. I currently am attending to my summer garden. I also grow a winter garden. I'm also storing seeds, shhh don't tell anyone. ; )

One thing that you can do, which is perfectly legal without a license is barter. I have a number of friends in my neighborhood and we openly barter for goods and services.

It's the wave of the future so to speak. If you remember a comment that I've said on many occasions that in the coming years we'll need to depend on one another to survive the coming years.

When Maban said love your neighbor as your self, this really spoke to me.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
Long and the short, it then took us to the fact that North Korea has bought up large tracts of Madagascan land, because it doesn't have the land to feed it's own population (given current farming practices). There is great concern now that intensive farming will affect the unique biodiversity of Madagascar...and yet though we know this will affect both plant and animal life, North Korea will still be allowed to do whatever they want, because people are more important than plants and animals in the shortsighted world of money. It is absolute madness.

That should, of course, be South not North Korea.

Sadly, perfection once again eludes me

reply to post by oconnection


It is now illegal for a farmer to harvest his own seeds to re-use - they must be Monsanto's seeds - so I'm presuming storing them, as this would to re-use them, would be illegal.

Originally posted by kshaund
It is now illegal for a farmer to harvest his own seeds to re-use - they must be Monsanto's seeds - so I'm presuming storing them, as this would to re-use them, would be illegal.

If the seed is from a genetically modified stock plant then it will be covered by all sorts of patents and legislation. I work with GM and transgenic plant material and the handling, usage and disposal guidelines are very, very stringent. In the case of seed, restrictions will be in place not just because of the risk of seed being sown without monitoring but because thousands goes into developing the 'product' and the producer wants a return on that investment. Presumably they hold ownership of not only the seed they sell but all progeny there of.

So much for our food for the next millenea - really sad, isn't it? There's several media stories of seed holders and suppliers being raided to the core by them to ensure no one can get any seeds that aren't inferior from Monsanto...

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Originally posted by kshaund
It is now illegal for a farmer to harvest his own seeds to re-use - they must be Monsanto's seeds - so I'm presuming storing them, as this would to re-use them, would be illegal.

If the seed is from a genetically modified stock plant then it will be covered by all sorts of patents and legislation. I work with GM and transgenic plant material and the handling, usage and disposal guidelines are very, very stringent. In the case of seed, restrictions will be in place not just because of the risk of seed being sown without monitoring but because thousands goes into developing the 'product' and the producer wants a return on that investment. Presumably they hold ownership of not only the seed they sell but all progeny there of.

Hey guys im sorry to say that parts of the inside of my tesla coil was burned up. Im going to repair it, but it may take some time. I will make a new topic when it is fix.

Thanks Mikey

Originally posted by kshaund

So much for our food for the next millenea - really sad, isn't it?

This is why we have to start gaining our independence from the mass distribution system and intensive farming. There is no other way. IMO, obviously.

I am currently completely torn between conformity and completely dropping out. The former makes me miserable, the latter will, for the first few years at least, mean living in almost complete isolation and essentially I will be throwing everything I have into a piece of land that legally I am not entitled to live on. Not to mention that I have a six year old son to consider and am battling with whether it is fair to land him out in the sticks where his nearest chance of friendship may be miles away.

Knowing that the way you live is wrong and that the way in which the world operates is unjust is one thing, I talk the talk, what I am wrestling with now is whether I can walk it too.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


I totally agree - I think they call it a conundrum -

I don't think anyone ever posted this...and since we have a lull I thought I'd fill it with a little light entertainment.



I am yet to come across a Mr Maban ends, so perhaps there is hope yet

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


The fact that it's very difficult to find organic seeds for some plants is kinda disturbing. I don't give a flying rats butt if I'm breaking a law of some sort. It's the way nature intended. They can keep there genetically modified trash seeds. If storing organic seeds is breaking some sort of bogus law in some way, it's a law that's going to be broken.

I'm sorry but if it's against the law to store my own organic seed then this is wrong on so many levels it's not even funny.

It's not like I'm infringing on someone's patent, I don't use GM seeds.

Originally posted by oconnection
reply to post by KilgoreTrout

 

The fact that it's very difficult to find organic seeds for some plants is kinda disturbing. I don't give a flying rats butt if I'm breaking a law of some sort. It's the way nature intended. They can keep there genetically modified trash seeds. If storing organic seeds is breaking some sort of bogus law in some way, it's a law that's going to be broken.

It is hard to get organic seeds cheifly because the legislation to gain 'organic' status in the market place is strict. I don't usually buy organic seeds, though I do grow organically and then know that any seeds that I produce are up to my own standards. Either way, practically every food crop available is a cultiver, someone, at some point spent years developing that plant. After all Raleigh came back from the Americas with a potato, not a King Edward or Maris Piper or Desiree. They were developed by selective breeding, cross pollination, back crossing and cloning. Think of all the legumes, hundreds of them, all developed from a wild source and selectively bred over generations. The only difference with GM is that they are able to splice characteristic from plants that would not usually cross pollinate, without access to the same technology that is something you and I cannot do. But we can develop our own cultivers from existing food crops that are not covered by TMs. It is fairly straightforward and great fun too, you never quite know what you will come up with.

If you go back to the discussions that we were having on the other thread about mythology and it's relationship to notions of plant gnosis, you will see how civilisation was built upon cultivers and the knowledge of horticulture, it is a powerful body of knowledge and always has been. These 'stories' demonstrate how power was gained by the first to cultivate wheat, barley etc etc and the effect that that had on the way we (as humans) lived. The change from female to male deification is when we change from what nature naturally produces, to the creation of a 'seed' with heritable characteristics. Also, remember that these were then fermented to create alcohol, in those good ol' days, they drank alcohol not because they sought inebriation but because with settlement, humans soon, without thinking, contaminated their water supply, the fermentation process makes drinking water safe. Worth bearing in mind for future reference.

Originally posted by oconnection
I'm sorry but if it's against the law to store my own organic seed then this is wrong on so many levels it's not even funny.

I can't see how such a law would be enforcable anyway. Plus, many seeds are highly nutritional in their own right and a rich source of natural oils, are you no longer to store seeds as a food stuff? We don't have any such legislation in the UK (that I know of) outside of intensive farming, which is heavily legislated (as it should be IMO). If in doubt, I would just buy a good airtight metal box, throw in a couple of sachets of silica gel and bury it under the shed, apart from giving you a secret stash, it also provides ideal storage conditions for maintaining dormancy and preventing mildew growth.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


I'd watch this movie if you haven't already!

The World According to Monsanto

Google Video Link

On March 11 a new documentary was aired on French television - a documentary that Americans won’t ever see. The gigantic bio-tech corporation Monsanto is threatening to destroy the agricultural biodiversity which has served mankind for thousands of years

You might get an understanding why I'm against GM foods and the control of seeds.

I am currently completely torn between conformity and completely dropping out.

This may be the film makes up your mind, it did for me.

Monsanto in my opinion has done much to destroy life on this planet. Just look at PCBs, while they occur naturally in nature. High amounts of this substance is known to cause chronic diseases such as cancer.

This film is just the tip of the ice berg in my opinion.

[edit on 25-7-2009 by oconnection]

Originally posted by oconnection
You might get an understanding why I'm against GM foods and the control of seeds.

Lol...at my interview for my current job I was asked what I knew about GM, I responded that as a keen conspiracy theorist I knew all about it and went on a little too much about Monsanto, they still gave me the job, bless 'em, though they rib me a little about it from time to time. GM has a place in my opinion, it is a form of technology and as such it is open to abuses and commercial exploitation. It should be regulated. My main objection to GM food crops is that they are bred for infertility, which with intensive farming practices, leads to a reduction in insect pollinators, that impacts on us all, local small growers and the global food chain in general. Similarly, plants bred for pest resistence etc also impact on the food chain.

However, as technology can be used for nefarious or materialistic purposes it can also be used to our benefit, as in the project that I am working on. In the case of medicinal plant uses, selective breeding and the use of transgenics can help us to ensure that natural medicines are available cheaply, providing a consistent and reliable source of those active components. Nature doesn't always do that.

I agree with you, you should be able to store your own seeds, and as with any silly law, that law should be broken. As I said, think about it, how on earth are they going to enforce it? Are they going to examine your garden and ask you for proof of purchase for all the seed you used...surely not? Worry about what you need to worry about and disregard the rest. And plus, while seeds may be regulated, there is nothing to stop you propagating clones via cuttings, or from producing your own, unique seeds by cross pollination. Where there is a will there is a way.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


I will agree that there are some uses for GMOs but I've tried my damnedest to cut it out of my diet as much as I can. Though I have a weakness for a good burger from time to time.

What about processed food, what is your opinion about that?

Are you aware of the first GM food, a tomato. Essentially what they did was identify a gene from a certain fly (it resisted frost) and adapted it to a tomato. Essentially they had to pull it from the market.

I understand that GMOs can have an application to help man kind. But like most businesses it's about profits and that is the top priority.

Take the medical industry in my country for example. We have a system where it is more profitable to treat symptoms rather than cure. My main concern is a complete lack of morals in many parts of the business world.

Do you expect me to believe the project you are working on is purely for the benefit of man kind? If there wasn't money to be made they wouldn't be bothering. Unless it's some sort of PR campaign.

If you watch the film I provided you can see there is many concerns, lawsuits, ect related to Monsanto.

My choice to go organic was out of concern for my health and the fact I oppose companies such as Monsanto do not want to give them business.

[edit on 25-7-2009 by oconnection]

Originally posted by oconnection
I will agree that there are some uses for GMOs but I've tried my damnedest to cut it out of my diet as much as I can. Though I have a weakness for a good burger from time to time.

What about processed food, what is your opinion about that?

I try not to buy it, but there are limitations on what I can ‘process’ for myself…jams, preserves, that kind of thing I still buy. I have almost completely cut meat out of my diet, what I do get is from my local butchers, same with fish, I try to only buy locally caught, but I have a weakness for seabass that I on occasion indulge in. I wish I could afford organically produce right across the board but the price is still too prohibitive. Dairy products too, I am still stuck with mass produced because of the price and sourcing. I don’t drive, and though I on occasion flirt with the idea of learning, the fact is I hate cars and motorways and don’t want to buy into all that. I’m thinking of getting a motorbike though which will give me a little more freedom to source out better produce. Most everything else is out of the range of where my legs, push-bike and public transport will take me. Plus, right now, I have to work, time is limited. The odds are stacked against us from completely changing our habits, but for me, gradual though it is at present, it is worth the effort and I do what I can. This is the first year that I have grown my own veg, I’ve always grown herbs, but not so much food. I only have a small growing patch, about 3 metres by 2, but it is amazing what you can fit into that amount of space…though the pumpkins are taking over!!!

Originally posted by oconnection
Are you aware of the first GM food, a tomato. Essentially what they did was identify a gene from a certain fly (it resisted frost) and adapted it to a tomato. Essentially they had to pull it from the market.

I understand that GMOs can have an application to help man kind. But like most businesses it's about profits and that is the top priority.

Take the medical industry in my country for example. We have a system where it is more profitable to treat symptoms rather than cure. My main concern is a complete lack of morals in many parts of the business world.

Do you expect me to believe the project you are working on is purely for the benefit of man kind? If there wasn't money to be made they wouldn't be bothering. Unless it's some sort of PR campaign.

If you watch the film I provided you can see there is many concerns, lawsuits, ect related to Monsanto.

I have watched a number of films on Monsanto over the years and I will watch yours (I promise), the thing to understand though is that they won’t change while demand exists, what you and your friends/neighbours are doing does that, even the little that I am currently doing will too. Same with health care, I haven’t taken antibiotics since I was 15 and won’t allow my son too (unless he was to contract a serious condition that required it), I rarely even go to the doctors and when I do it is in the knowledge that I know what treatment I require and I can’t give that to myself. We know this, and therefore it is our responsibility to take a step back and stop abusing the systems and allowing them to abuse us. I’m on a low income, which in this country means I get free health care and prescriptions, that doesn’t mean I have to go to the doctor everytime my nose drips, too many abuse it because it isn’t going to cost them anything and do not even question how the system is funded and that they are supporting big Pharm kick backs. Look too at the clothing industry, or any other form of mass production, we buy clothes because they are cheap without the realisation that by doing so we are supporting de-ruralisation of the third and second world countries, and the sweat shop system that is illegal in our own countries. I buy 90% of my clothes second hand now.

Originally posted by oconnection
My choice to go organic was out of concern for my health and the fact I oppose companies such as Monsanto do not want to give them business.

How about bread, do you make your own? I am again too short of time right now to do this on a daily basis, but I want to, there is nothing to beat freshly baked bread. I use a local baker but it is not the same. I think that wheat is one of the chief driving forces of intensive farming, and I think that most of it has been messed with in order to by pass rotational farming and disease and pest resistence. Organic flour though is fairly cheap in comparison to mass produced bread.

Originally posted by oconnection

I am currently completely torn between conformity and completely dropping out.

This may be the film makes up your mind, it did for me.

Monsanto in my opinion has done much to destroy life on this planet. Just look at PCBs, while they occur naturally in nature. High amounts of this substance is known to cause chronic diseases such as cancer.

What I want is complete independence and autonomy. No mains water, electricity or gas, as well as producing my own food, completely. The battle I am currently having with myself is giving up the fallacy of security…the job, taxes, mortgage, insurance, schools etc etc. I know what I want, but I have to find the faith in myself to do it. I have been toying with the idea of going the occupational route, and two weeks ago became determined to go back to university and study for a degree that would allow me to adopt a more rural lifestyle. This week I am back to following my dream of total self-sufficency. I will fluctuate in this way until I make the leap. My contract expires at the end of January though, and I intend to jump then. I am sourcing courses in Permaculture Design and have also found a two day course in how to set up a renewable energy system. Right now I feel very good about this, but confidence wains from time to time. I am by nature a loner, so while I could ‘join’ an established community I prefer the idea of pioneering my own. I hope next year to join a group building a house using natural and reclaimed materials, I am very excited by that, of building my own shelter and am looking forward to the physical challenge of doing this for myself. I’m kind of on my own in this, my family do not understand me (though nothing new there) and though I have met people who like the idea, none have really been willing to expose themselves to the privitations of going ‘native’. Plus most find the idea of relying on themselves, 100%, too prohibitive. Understandably so. But each to their own.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
I try not to buy it, but there are limitations on what I can ‘process’ for myself…jams, preserves, that kind of thing I still buy. I have almost completely cut meat out of my diet, what I do get is from my local butchers, same with fish, I try to only buy locally caught, but I have a weakness for seabass that I on occasion indulge in. I wish I could afford organically produce right across the board but the price is still too prohibitive. Dairy products too, I am still stuck with mass produced because of the price and sourcing. I don’t drive, and though I on occasion flirt with the idea of learning, the fact is I hate cars and motorways and don’t want to buy into all that. I’m thinking of getting a motorbike though which will give me a little more freedom to source out better produce. Most everything else is out of the range of where my legs, push-bike and public transport will take me. Plus, right now, I have to work, time is limited. The odds are stacked against us from completely changing our habits, but for me, gradual though it is at present, it is worth the effort and I do what I can. This is the first year that I have grown my own veg, I’ve always grown herbs, but not so much food. I only have a small growing patch, about 3 metres by 2, but it is amazing what you can fit into that amount of space…though the pumpkins are taking over!!!

I love talking about this sort of thing. I was telling my parents for years and years, my parents have finally come to there senses. I've been helping them build there garden in there back yard. =)

There are places, at least where I live where you can rent a plot of land and grow your own garden if you have space limitations.

Pumpkins grow like weeds up there, that's strange? hehe

I have watched a number of films on Monsanto over the years and I will watch yours (I promise), the thing to understand though is that they won’t change while demand exists, what you and your friends/neighbours are doing does that, even the little that I am currently doing will too. Same with health care, I haven’t taken antibiotics since I was 15 and won’t allow my son too (unless he was to contract a serious condition that required it), I rarely even go to the doctors and when I do it is in the knowledge that I know what treatment I require and I can’t give that to myself. We know this, and therefore it is our responsibility to take a step back and stop abusing the systems and allowing them to abuse us. I’m on a low income, which in this country means I get free health care and prescriptions, that doesn’t mean I have to go to the doctor everytime my nose drips, too many abuse it because it isn’t going to cost them anything and do not even question how the system is funded and that they are supporting big Pharm kick backs. Look too at the clothing industry, or any other form of mass production, we buy clothes because they are cheap without the realisation that by doing so we are supporting de-ruralisation of the third and second world countries, and the sweat shop system that is illegal in our own countries. I buy 90% of my clothes second hand now.

Free health care in my country exists but you guys are much further ahead of the curve than my country. Yet we have billions/trillions of dollars playing the world's police man.

Consumers indeed hold the power in there hands but the problem is most people lack the time and/or are lazy. Most consumers don't even bother to think where this product comes from, what material it's made out of, ect. Globalism has brought us many evils.

My great grandmother lived passed 100 but at the cost of taking 50+ pills a day. Sadly in her later years she was a walking mushroom.

I've decided to go through the difficult task of research which products are made from certain countries. I tend to want to support products made in my own local economy not because I hate other countries but because I want to support my local country and it's less likely sweat shops are used.

My mother as a child was given an unhealthy amount of antibiotics as a child and a young adult, as a result her health has suffered. My mother in her later years has had to rebuild her health. Through many natural products she's a pretty healthy woman. She's overcome "Chronic Fatigue" and "Fibromyalgia" through the direction of a natural medicine doctor. My mother spent 20+ years, going through one doctor after the next. Finally after exhausting every main stream solution I encouraged her to finally listen to me and take a more natural approach.

Today her depression, her energy, and health as a whole is much better. I thank God that she finally found a solution!

How about bread, do you make your own? I am again too short of time right now to do this on a daily basis, but I want to, there is nothing to beat freshly baked bread. I use a local baker but it is not the same. I think that wheat is one of the chief driving forces of intensive farming, and I think that most of it has been messed with in order to by pass rotational farming and disease and pest resistence. Organic flour though is fairly cheap in comparison to mass produced bread.

I'm still perfecting my bread making but I make a killer organic bread. There are many recipes online.
organictobe.org...

What I want is complete independence and autonomy. No mains water, electricity or gas, as well as producing my own food, completely. The battle I am currently having with myself is giving up the fallacy of security…the job, taxes, mortgage, insurance, schools etc etc. I know what I want, but I have to find the faith in myself to do it. I have been toying with the idea of going the occupational route, and two weeks ago became determined to go back to university and study for a degree that would allow me to adopt a more rural lifestyle. This week I am back to following my dream of total self-sufficency. I will fluctuate in this way until I make the leap. My contract expires at the end of January though, and I intend to jump then. I am sourcing courses in Permaculture Design and have also found a two day course in how to set up a renewable energy system. Right now I feel very good about this, but confidence wains from time to time. I am by nature a loner, so while I could ‘join’ an established community I prefer the idea of pioneering my own. I hope next year to join a group building a house using natural and reclaimed materials, I am very excited by that, of building my own shelter and am looking forward to the physical challenge of doing this for myself. I’m kind of on my own in this, my family do not understand me (though nothing new there) and though I have met people who like the idea, none have really been willing to expose themselves to the privitations of going ‘native’. Plus most find the idea of relying on themselves, 100%, too prohibitive. Understandably so. But each to their own.

Ah but it is all within our grasp! I will show you a film that is more on the "extreme side" Have you seen Survivor Man? This fellow takes a plot of land and makes a comfortable living for him and his family so they can live "off the grid".

There are many cheaper ways of doing this. I will admit that one of my last steps will be to buy a plot of land and build a self reliant system. I currently have solar panels. I wish I lived in an area which I can gather enough rain water so I can have my own water. I've surveyed my land for wells but it's dry. But solar panels simply makes sense. It's sunny at least 300+ days here.
edit: I should of read your last paragraph more closely. It's great to hear your are going after this dream of yours!
Anyways enjoy this film.

Survivorman - Off The Grid

Google Video Link

[edit on 25-7-2009 by oconnection]

What I want is complete independence and autonomy. No mains water, electricity or gas, as well as producing my own food, completely. The battle I am currently having with myself is giving up the fallacy of security…the job, taxes, mortgage, insurance, schools etc etc. I know what I want, but I have to find the faith in myself to do it. I have been toying with the idea of going the occupational route, and two weeks ago became determined to go back to university and study for a degree that would allow me to adopt a more rural lifestyle. This week I am back to following my dream of total self-sufficency. I will fluctuate in this way until I make the leap. My contract expires at the end of January though, and I intend to jump then. I am sourcing courses in Permaculture Design and have also found a two day course in how to set up a renewable energy system. Right now I feel very good about this, but confidence wains from time to time. I am by nature a loner, so while I could ‘join’ an established community I prefer the idea of pioneering my own. I hope next year to join a group building a house using natural and reclaimed materials, I am very excited by that, of building my own shelter and am looking forward to the physical challenge of doing this for myself. I’m kind of on my own in this, my family do not understand me (though nothing new there) and though I have met people who like the idea, none have really been willing to expose themselves to the privitations of going ‘native’. Plus most find the idea of relying on themselves, 100%, too prohibitive. Understandably so. But each to their own.

* I had to continue because I exceeded the max characters last post.

You and I share the commonality of being a "loner". I think many loners are like minded in wanted to be self reliant, not wanting to depend on anyone else for what they need.

I'll give some encouragement and tell you yes it's worth it but it's more work than your realize. When you start down this road you'll find how many subconscious attachments you have. If your convictions are deep then it is of course possible. There are, like you know whole communities out there that are for the most part willing to help you out.

Let me know if you have any questions.

[edit on 25-7-2009 by oconnection]

Originally posted by oconnection
I love talking about this sort of thing. I was telling my parents for years and years, my parents have finally come to there senses. I've been helping them build there garden in there back yard. =)

There are places, at least where I live where you can rent a plot of land and grow your own garden if you have space limitations.

We can do the same here, allotments, but again it is time that is my greatest enemy.

Originally posted by oconnection
Pumpkins grow like weeds up there, that's strange? Hehe

They seem to grow like weeds in my garden too…the blooming thing is almost three metres long, very nice though, I put it in a fairly shady corner thinking that’d keep the size down, but no, it likes shade!

Originally posted by oconnection
Free health care in my country exists but you guys are much further ahead of the curve than my country. Yet we have billions/trillions of dollars playing the world's police man.

Consumers indeed hold the power in there hands but the problem is most people lack the time and/or are lazy. Most consumers don't even bother to think where this product comes from, what material it's made out of, ect. Globalism has brought us many evils.

I also think that it is ‘safer’ to blame others or the government for your situation. My Mum is a terror, when I try to stop her buying cheap clothes etc and explain why, her argument is that these people would starve if they weren’t working in sweatshops…little girls I tell her, sewing on buttons, when they should be playing or in school…to no avail…she reads the Daily Mail and still thinks that Maggie Thatcher was good for this country, I have little hope for converting her, stuck in her ways and born of the protestant work ethic, this life is hell and she hopes to god that there is an afterlife to make the suffering here worthwhile. What can I do?

Originally posted by oconnection
My great grandmother lived passed 100 but at the cost of taking 50+ pills a day. Sadly in her later years she was a walking mushroom.

I've decided to go through the difficult task of research which products are made from certain countries. I tend to want to support products made in my own local economy not because I hate other countries but because I want to support my local country and it's less likely sweat shops are used.

My mother as a child was given an unhealthy amount of antibiotics as a child and a young adult, as a result her health has suffered. My mother in her later years has had to rebuild her health. Through many natural products she's a pretty healthy woman. She's overcome "Chronic Fatigue" and "Fibromyalgia" through the direction of a natural medicine doctor. My mother spent 20+ years, going through one doctor after the next. Finally after exhausting every main stream solution I encouraged her to finally listen to me and take a more natural approach.

Today her depression, her energy, and health as a whole is much better. I thank God that she finally found a solution!

There has to be a balance, in the UK the National Health Service (NHS) is stretched to the limit, mainly because it is over used for minor ailments, by people who do not trust their own instincts. A doctor can do nothing for a cold or flu or many other viral and bacterial infections, and anything that they can do is much less effective than finding a natural dietary alternative. I don’t even use pain medication, if I have a headache or any other form of pain, I know that invariably if I think about it the solution will come to me as in most minor ailments you are lacking something in yoru diet. Plus I take the odd supplement, vitamin C if I have a cold, Evening Primrose if I am feeling a little down. Touch wood I haven’t had any major illnesses, but for me, that is what the NHS should be for, the big things that we can’t help ourselves with. But again the problem is that natural remedies are not free, why spend on a supplement when you can get a pill full of synthetic chemicals for free? But mostly, I think that people don’t listen to their bodies and find out what it is that is needed, they would much rather someone in a suit told them what to do.

I have a similar attitude to insurance, I hold a policy in case my house falls down, but as far as contents are concerned I don’t bother. The cost of insurance for a year I could replace most of my belongings that can be replaced, my books, which are the only thing that I really value, are largely irreplaceable anyway, so why go to the expense for an unrealistic sense of ‘safety’.

Originally posted by oconnection
I'm still perfecting my bread making but I make a killer organic bread. There are many recipes online.

I love making bread, it is very therapeutic knocking the # out of a piece of dough, but sadly I lack the time. I’d love to try growing my own wheat and milling it myself if I can get hold of a grit stone. One day perhaps… I was once bought one of those breadmaking machines, took all the fun out of it, I tried it once then gave it away.

Originally posted by oconnection
Ah but it is all within our grasp! I will show you a film that is more on the "extreme side" Have you seen Survivor Man? This fellow takes a plot of land and makes a comfortable living for him and his family so they can live "off the grid".

I think that it is too, it is one of those things, short term loss for long term gain, or short term gain for long term loss. It is harder in the UK because of land planning laws. What I intend to do, buy a piece of woodland and build a low impact home, and a permaculture garden to supply our food (plus chickens for eggs and ducks to keep slugs at bay) will essentially mean that I will be living on the land that I own, illegally. Luckily it is hard to have someone removed from land that they own, but assuming I don’t find the locals friendly, it could be made very difficult for me. I don’t intend to do anything that intrudes upon anyone else, so I think I will be fine, but it is still a gamble. Worth it in my estimation though. Nothing ventured nothing gained, as they say.

Originally posted by oconnection
There are many cheaper ways of doing this. I will admit that one of my last steps will be to buy a plot of land and build a self reliant system. I currently have solar panels. I wish I lived in an area which I can gather enough rain water so I can have my own water. I've surveyed my land for wells but it's dry. But solar panels simply makes sense. It's sunny at least 300+ days here.

I am debating on solar, most panels only have a lifetime of 15 years, which for me is still pretty consumable, I would like, ideally a micro-hydro system, but that depends on the land gradient and a water course, or I quite fancy building a wind turbine…wind is something we have lots of in the UK. In both cases I will need to store access power and it’ll be a 12 volt system, so most appliances, computer etc will need adaptors, but in both cases, they are fairly simple to construct using recycled materials, so are much cheaper to set up than solar panels. And, perhaps more importantly, I don’t think I’d get enough consistent sun light, though some of the cells that you can buy for heating water are great, they force the water through the cell itself and can heat water even with total cloud cover.

The area that I am looking at moving to has high rainfall…about 30 to 45 inches a year so no problems there, and it is rich in underground water, so hopefully I will be able to put in a bore hole for drinking water which will be gravity fed to the house itself. Heating and water heating will be via woodburners.

Originally posted by oconnection
edit: I should of read your last paragraph more closely. It's great to hear your are going after this dream of yours!
Anyways enjoy this film.

Survivorman - Off The Grid

Google Video Link

I am watching it in bits…I am very interested in how the children adapt, as that is my major concern.

Originally posted by oconnection
You and I share the commonality of being a "loner". I think many loners are like minded in wanted to be self reliant, not wanting to depend on anyone else for what they need.

I also think that it is important that you are mentally self-sufficent. I can go days without uttering a word because I am so content in my own head, my Mum says that sending me to my room as a kid was no punishment because I could while away hours without even noticing, I haven’t changed much. My major concern in the respect of taking on such an isolating existence is my son, but I figure he is six and he’ll adapt now much better than if I leave it any longer. I hope that by the time he hits puberty we will be better integrated into the community around us and he can take himself off. But for the first few years it’ll be hard, though I hope we will have visitors, I don’t intend to cut myself off completely. Can you tell that I am still talking myself around? Haha.

Originally posted by oconnection
I'll give some encouragement and tell you yes it's worth it but it's more work than your realize. When you start down this road you'll find how many subconscious attachments you have. If your convictions are deep then it is of course possible. There are, like you know whole communities out there that are for the most part willing to help you out.

I do realise that it isn’t going to be easy and that it will be almost solid, back breaking work to begin with, but that is really what I want, the physical challenge is part of what is driving this in me. I have already begun contacting other groups who live in this way in the UK and the responses so far have been very positive, most run courses, like the renewable energy one, and permaculture design, so I am hoping that next year, in between me selling the house and buying the land to spend a little bit of time going around the country, developing skills and building contacts. It is one thing to be a loner, another to refuse help that is available and willingly given, that would be just silly.

This is the type of house I want to build, the guy who built this, Simon Dale, did so in about 3 months at a cost of £3000…not bad. He dug into a hillside and as you can see it is a raw timber frame and then the walls are hay bales rendered with lime plaster (far more breathable than modern plasters). I reckon, with minimal help, I can do this. He helps others to build them and invites volunteers to come along to help, which is what I would like to do to see how he selects materials etc, though I would like to build my own house largely by myself. The house in the pictures was his first and he did it with only help from his father in law. So if he can, why can’t I? Besides it appeals to my pioneer spirit and the romantic in me…or perhaps I just watched too many episodes of Little House on the Prairie and Grizzly Adams when I was a kid…lol.

Anyway, I think you’ll be suitably impressed.

www.besthousedesign.net...

To me that is perfect, and when you have so much space outdoors, you only really need somewhere to get out of the weather when it is hard and a place to sleep of course.

Originally posted by oconnection
Let me know if you have any questions.

Don’t you worry, I will. Thanks, it has been wonderful talking about this with you. I need to get as much positive feedback as I can, I know that once I am on the land and ‘doing’ I’ll be fine, but it is the getting there and the necessary downsizing, storage of stuff while I get settled etc etc that is currently wearing me down. But you’re right it is will be worth all the effort and I know in my own heart that it is right for me too, who needs to dip a toe in the water when you can dive straight in.