Anti Piracy weapon....help

I have been kicking around an idea in my head and on paper to some extent. While I am generally well versed in weapons and deployment means, I am calling upon my fellow ATS lurkers for thier input. A while ago I came across several theories for disappearing ships in the Bermuda Triangle and elsewhere that involved large amounts of gas being released from the ocean floor and creating massive "bubble fields" that would instantaneously decrease the bouyancey (sp?) of a ship and cause it to sink in a matter of seconds to minutes. I thought that applying that science (as it does happen and it does do what is reported) to an anti-piracy device installed aboard freighters my be an alternative to a real anti-pirate weapon. A Browning .50cal mounted to the deck. But I digress. My problem is a deployemnt method. There are devices that are dropped from helis in the works that essentially immobilize an attackers boat. But this requires the presence of a military helo, which is not always going to be there. My thought was for a device that can be loaded into canted launchers off the rear of the boat. Much like depth charge launchers from WW2. This device would splay out a large net-like protrusion that would be linked to the ship by hoses on each end. Once activated by a crewman ( delayed device activation) it would create a field of bubbles, that would essentially not allow the vessel to remain bouyant. Thoughts?

Let me see if I've got the right mental picture. Your plan is to fire canisters of netting attached by feeder hoses to your ship. This netting will settle over the pirate vessel. and the hoses will create gas pockets under the hull, causing the pirate ship to sink. Is that the gist of it?

If so, I'm invoking the KISS principle. Keep It Simple, Sir (edited for decorum!). Your 'weapon' would be range-limited by the length of your feeder hose...probably to something a lot less than the effective range of those modern-piracy standards, the AK-47 and the RPG. That means that by the time you could bubble-web the pirates, they could perforate your hull. That's not a good thing.

Assuming you had the range to get a shot off (doubtful), and assuming that you could hit (also not a guaranteed event), and assuming the device would work in any reasonable amount of time (a near-impossibility, barring the active cooperation of the pirate vessel), I fail to see what this device would do that isn't already done much more efficiently and safely by a pair of Browning .50 cals, or even a pair of 81mm mortar tubes on the fantail.

No it would be fired at the onset of any engagement, as soon as it is determined they are going to be harassed. Most reports are of pirates coming at the boat from the fantail. This would be deployed BEFORE the vessel got into range as a deterrent or in last resort a way to disable the attackers. I am probably not giving out the right image, so please bear with me.

[edit on 19-5-2009 by djvexd]

[edit on 19-5-2009 by djvexd]

Even if you deployed this thing first, I have serious doubts about its ability to do anything other than occupy space and cost money. If your 'bubble field' is in the water before the pirates begin their engagement, what's stopping them from just moving around it? Another minor problem is that the gas bubbles that have been advanced as the cause of ship disappearances in the Bermuda Triangle are bubbles of methane. Where is a merchant ship going to (safely) store large stocks of pressurized methane gas, several hundred feet of pressure-resistant feed hose, and several hundred square yards of netting? For that matter, where are they going to find room for the field mortar it would require to launch this 'care package' ?

Sorry, but that pair of .50's or small battery of 81mm mortars is looking better by the minute.

Although I must agree with Brother Stormhammer, it is none the less an interesting idea.

Would be a better idea to have a self contained package that is not tethered to the ship, and why use gas at all. A container full of buoyant lengths of rope would do the trick.

rope canister launched from ship.
canister breaks open and disperses rope.
small vessel laughs at foolish measure and runs over rope.
rope ties up props and rudder.
pirates now stuck whilst they undo the rope.

I know this works......I did it in a navy rhib, although in my defense, I did not see the rope

Simple solution to a safe non violent anti piracy weapon.

Flaming Foo Bombs launched onto the pirate decks with an uber water balloon catapult. Sadly though, the pirates would probably not notice the smell.

Seriously though, the merchant ships could most likely employ some sort of air cannon to launch a variety of irritating projectiles at the pirates.

-disease infested peasants
-balls full of hot tar/oil (got that one from Seinfeld)
-balls pepper spray
-strange orange pumpkins full of little nastys
etc etc etc...

edit to add:
bags full of poisonous death adders

[edit on 19-5-2009 by jibeho]

Originally posted by jibeho disease infested peasants

WOW! Bit harsh, innit? I spy a simple flaw in your method.

Where are you gonna get the peasants who'll volunteer to be infected, let alone fired from sort of cannon? Or are you thinking of human cannon balls?

As a poster said most, if not all assaults are made from the stern. I'd have thought that some type of anti-intruder device based on an electro-static system or even a coating of some sort of slippery anti climb paint or oil could be applied.

Of course a Hedgehog system of fishing net weighted snares could work if they were computer controlled much like Phalanx, Gate or Goalkeeper and the like.

The only real problem I forsee, is correct target identification. It's one thing to fire off a couple of hundred rounds at in incoming missile, but shooting up a couple of junk canoes full of friendly natives offering coconuts and bananas to the crew, leaves little to the imagination!

Perhaps I'm just not getting into the spirit of the thing...I'll admit that non-lethal weapons have a definite place, particularly in law enforcement applications. However, that place is *not* in anti-piracy applications. When you're dealing with a group of people pointing RPGs and automatic weapons at a ship, whether it be full of cargo or passengers, there is no such thing as 'too harsh a reaction'. Incapacitating the pirates' boats (even assuming that some of the proposed systems could get the job done) doesn't keep them from letting fly with whatever nastiness comes to hand. You don't make them angry by screwing around with their boat. You make them dead, then you double-tap to make *certain* they're dead, and you do it in the fastest way possible.

If a few applications of reasonable force don't solve the problem, then use satellite tracking, find the ports where they're based, and blow them off the face of the earth with naval gunfire and / or air strikes. MOAB seems like a good tool for the job. Sooner or later, the cost of doing business with the pirates will be higher than any port city wants to pay, and the problem will fade away. Half measures don't work.

It is my understanding that the "bubbles" released from the sea floor is methane gas. So any device you would use to release the bubles would have to have enuff methane in it to offset the bouancy of the ship your attacking. Differant size ships, differant amounts of methane. Not sure just how feasible that would be.

I saw that experiment with the boat and the bubbles to sink it. If I remember right it took a couple tries to get it right but did work.

Something like this I would assume you would need solid extendable poles that are 360 degrees around the ship and give the ship itself a buffer zone so you wouldn't sink yourself.

It might be cheaper to just have the same idea but instead use an extendable 360% vertical razor wire fence.

The biggest problem I see is they can just dive underneath the area and get into the ships buffer zone. Granite they won't have access to their ships so couldn't ram the boat but would still be able to board it if it has a smaller hull or accessible area's of the hull next to the waters edge.

Hi,

The best thing you can probably do is the hire some Israeli security, apparently. Last time round they managed to fight off 'pirates' with a few pistols and firehoses so i suspect they could do more with rifle's of their own.

Alternatively ( and probably more of a long term solution) is to stop the massive over fishing of the coastal waters, by international fishing fleets, of these war torn countries so that these fishermen can go back to fishing instead of of trying to make a living by one of the more lucrative remaining ways.

They said quite clearly that they just want ransom money but that they will start killing people too if they are killed. But hey, we don't negotiate with 'terrorist' ( pirates is probably close enough) so lets just ask the US to invade them too!

As for the bubble gun i think the tourist would love a 20 mm deck gun, even if it's just for show. It wont be long until they start sending tours that way just for the excitement value of it all....

Stellar

Grappling hooks with 2000 pound blocks of concrete on aircraft bomb type releases.

When the pirates get along side launch the hooks away from the ship and release the blocks

Ether the blocks will crash through there boats or as the blocks sink the hooks will catch the boats and drag them under.

Then its up to the pirates how long they can tread water.

Or you can wait till the pirates are along side and use a WW2 flame thrower.
www.maam.org...
www.maam.org...

Crispy Critters.

The best anti-piracy weapon is going to be one that does not let them get anywhere near the ship. RPG, Phalanx, 20mm cannon would be my choices. I suggest we use Q-Ships which are special merchant ships that have been tricked out with special engines, armor, and weapons. To all outward appearance they are a normal merchant, but once you mess with them the containers open up to reveal massive amounts of weapons. These were used with success by most navies in WW2 and would work on the pirates as well.

An excellent idea Groingrinder. The Allies used 'Q' Ships to good effect during WWI & II and the German Raiding Schooners were especially effective along the African coast.

What we need is some old Aussie style WWII Coast Watchers to give advanced warning when these morons take to the open sea or perhaps a dedicated Recon Sat but that would be too expensive.

Sorry about not replying...been out of town. Great ideas. The only problem with using firearms and "offensive" weaponery is that it is against International Maritime laws as well as the insurance companies, whom insure these vessels, do not allow it or charge a seriously high premium to allow armed security personnell. Having any type of offensive weaponery mounted to a deck constitutes classificationas a vessel of war, hence not insurable by maritime insurance companies. Back to my earlier idea maybe a depth charge like systme wherea concentrated load of methane would negate the bouyancy? From the accounts i have read indicate that most pirate attacks use small raiding craft to board ships, although small to mid size fishing vessels are also used.

[edit on 23-5-2009 by djvexd]

Look into the LRAD. It's been used to successfully thwart pirate attacks in the past. It uses a directed beam of sound that by some accounts has a a 2km range. When it hits you, it's so painful to your ears that you can't function.

There's a lot of legal technicalities with sinking other ships, even in self defense.

According to the Enclycopedia Brittanica, Piracy is classed as:

any robbery or other violent action, for private ends and without authorization by public authority, committed on the seas or in the air outside the normal jurisdiction of any state. Because piracy has been regarded as an offense against the law of nations, the public vessels of any state have been permitted to seize a pirate ship, to bring it into port, to try the crew (regardless of their nationality or domicile), and, if they are found guilty, to punish them and to confiscate the ship.

An interesting side bar is that, if pirates were caught in the 17th or 18th century, they can ' immediately be tried, sentenced to death and 'hanged from the yard-arm!' '

This was the common law in England at the time, although Sir Walter Raleigh and Sir Francis Drake committed piracy at will, on behalf of and with the blessings of Queen Elizabeth I.