Preliminary Designs For The Great Seal Of The United States Of America, And Designs Of Old Currency.

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posted on May, 18 2009 @ 07:30 PM
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I've seen alot of pessimism in this forum towards associating symbols, design, or meaning, when it comes to suggesting there is an Illuminati link in things like this.

Recently after having a renewed interest in researching the mysteries behind the illuminati, i remembered all the talk about the $1 bill, dont worry!, im not here to talk about that


But it did make me think of looking at designs of currency going back many years, and wondered what symbolism, if any would or could be found.

I did do a search and found a bit about the present great seal, but couldn't find anything on preliminary designs, also everyone knows about the $1 bill, which im sure has been debated to death too, but again, i couldn't find anything looking back further, at designs that went on currency way before that.

I will start by posting the preliminary designs of the great seal, i believe illuminati symbolism is massively adopted in these designs, the source from which i found these, strongly disagrees.


The Pyramid & Eye on the reverse side was not designed by Freemasons. What's more, this misunderstood symbol is becoming a casualty of lore: abused by fiction writers; commandeered by conspiracy theorists; trivialized by the media as a background image on the evening financial news.

The Reverse Side of the Great Seal is not a Masonic Symbol

The unfinished pyramid with an eye in its zenith is an original and revolutionary American design created in 1782 as part of the official sign of sovereignty, the emblem that represents the United States and its citizens. Prior to 1782, this imagery was not used as a symbol by any organization.

Together, the two sides of the Great Seal are a unique combination of images from nature (eagle, olive branch, stars, cloud, light rays, eye) and culture (pyramid, arrows, shield). But no one has an exclusive association with any of these symbols.

Designing the Great Seal involved three committees, six years, and several of America's most gifted founders who represented diverse experiences and points-of-views. But only four men actually contributed elements to the final design. And they were not Freemasons. Their names are linked below.

Members of the Great Seal Design Committees

* Definitely a Mason: Benjamin Franklin.
* Definitely not Masons: John Adams and Charles Thomson.
* No firm evidence of a Masonic connection, although allegations of such a
connection have been noted: Thomas Jefferson*, James Lovell, Francis
Hopkinson, Arthur Middleton, and John Rutledge.
* No records at all, so presumably not Masons: Pierre Du Simitière, John Morin
Scott, William Church Houston, Arthur Lee, Elias Boudinot, and William Barton
(although he has at times been confused with another William Barton who was a
Mason).

"It seems likely that the designers of the Great Seal and the Masons took their symbols from parallel sources, and unlikely that the seal designers consciously copied Masonic symbols with the intention of incorporating Masonic symbolism into the national coat of arms."


Im not so sure i agree with the above, are they correct in assuming those people were not Freemasons?

More from the above article linked below, arguing against the fact of any meaning or connection to freemasonry, or the illuminati.

Continuation of above article.

So i shall present some of the preliminary designs for the great seal i found, its a massive subject, with so much history behind it, and opinions as to the meaning of them to post all here now, but the whole point of this post is to draw on the knowledge of fellow ATS'ers here, who will know far more about this than i, and i appreciate all input.

For those who think this is all a waste of time, don't waste your time flaming this post.



And an explanation of what we can see, again if anyone with more knowledge on the meanings of illuminati symbolism, please add your version of what we are seeing, im aware of some of the meanings, but want to hear an experts opinion on these.


Supporting the Shield on its right side: "The Goddess of Liberty in a corslet of armour alluding to the present Times, holding in her right hand the Spear & Cap and with her left supporting the Shield of the states." On its left side: "The Goddess of Justice bearing a Sword in her right hand, and in her left a Balance." * Du Simitière's sketch differs from the above description approved by Congress: 1) In the sketch, the Goddess of Liberty's left hand rests "on an anchor, emblem of Hope." The anchor was removed. * 2) The left supporter sketched is: "Senester, an American Soldier, compleatly accoutred in his hunting Shirt and trowsers, with his tomahawk, powder horn, pouch &c. holding with his left hand his rifle gun rested, and the Shield of the States with his right." He was replaced with the Goddess of Justice.







"Pharaoh sitting in an open Chariot, a Crown on his head and a Sword in his hand, passing through the divided Waters of the Red Sea in Pursuit of the Israelites: Rays from a Pillar of Fire in the Cloud, expressive of the divine Presence and Command, beaming on Moses who stands on the shore and extending his hand over the Sea causes it to overwhelm Pharaoh."



The same day Congress received the committee's report, it was "Ordered, To lie on the table." In other words, Congress was unimpressed by their design. Two of its design elements, however, were chosen for the final Great Seal: the eye of Providence and the motto E Pluribus Unum. Also, some of the meaning of Franklin's motto is seen in the one eventually used above the radiant eye on the reverse side of the Great Seal: Annuit Coeptis (Providence has Favored Our Undertakings).





The shield of thirteen diagonal white and red stripes is supported on its right by a warrior holding a sword and on its left by a figure representing Peace bearing an olive branch. The crest is a radiant constellation of thirteen stars. The motto beneath the shield, "Bello vel Paci," means: For war or for peace.





On the reverse side, Liberty is seated in a chair holding an olive branch and her staff is topped by a Liberty cap. The motto "Virtute perennis" means "Everlasting because of virtue." The date in Roman numerals is 1776. Like the first committee's design, Congress did not consider the second committee's suitable, thus did not approve it.





The shield is supported on its right by the "Genius of the American Confederated Republic" represented by a maiden, and on its left by an American warrior. At the top is an eagle and on the pillar in the shield is a "Phoenix in Flames*." Upper motto: "In Vindiciam Libertatis" ([In Defense of Liberty). Lower motto: "Virtus sola invicta" (Only virtue unconquered).



Barton said, "the Dove (perched on the right Hand of the Genius of America) is emblematical of Innocence and Virtue." And... the "Pyramid signifies Strength & Duration."

"the Phoenix is emblematical of the expiring Liberty of Britain, revived by her Descendants, in America." Earlier there had been a mythical phoenix on South Carolina's five-shillings note (left) issued in April 1778.


He had designed a more intricate design before this one, using a different bird, a rooster, does that bird have any connection or symbolic meaning for the illuminati?


(Barton used another bird, a rooster, at the top of his first design which was even more complex than the one suggested by the third committee.)





Upper motto: "Deo Favente" – With God's Favor (lit., God Favoring) Lower motto: "Perennis" – Everlasting (lit., Through the Years)


Also i find these comments by Barton very interesting.


We almost had a palm tree instead of the eye at the top of the pyramid! Barton explained the symbolism: "The Palm Tree, when burnt down to the very Root, naturally rises fairer than ever." But he struck out that sentence, like he did in the above description.


Is he subliminally referring to the illuminati??


For the reverse side Barton suggested a pyramid of thirteen steps with a radiant eye above it. His sketch was undoubtedly influenced by the pyramid on the $50 Continental Currency note designed in 1778 by Francis Hopkinson, the heraldry consultant and artist on the second Great Seal committee (1780).


And here's the sketch drawn two years earlier.



And here is the final drawing, with the reverse being the familiar unfinished pyramid.





Original source.

So there you go, i hope these images interest you as much as they did me.

If anyone can explain any of these drawings, symbols, that connect to any illuminati meanings, please post!

I will add images of old (US) currency, going back to the very first drafts, of notes that went into circulation in my next post here.


[edit on 18-5-2009 by Denied]




posted on May, 21 2009 @ 04:25 PM
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Any idea's, understandings, of anything symbolic in these...??

Or did i just create the worst thread ever


I have searched for this specific topic on ATS, and found nothing...
Unless im mistaken?



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 04:28 PM
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Ben Franklin's version is a personal favorite of mine for the quote on it, though the artwork has inspired various comments at work.



posted on May, 23 2009 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by Denied
Any idea's, understandings, of anything symbolic in these...??

Or did i just create the worst thread ever


No, I think you created a thread that, if anyone wanted to connect the Great Seal of the United States to a 'sinister' origin, they would have an extremely difficult time with the evidence you have gathered and presented. Excellent job on your research.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


lol, wow, i love the way sarcasm can be such a witty tool


i take it that's not a typo, ok, so you think the evidence speaks for itself, and that there is nothing in these designs linking these to anything with a more sinister background?



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by Denied
lol, wow, i love the way sarcasm can be such a witty tool


I was not being sarcastic, I was being complimentary and deferential.


i take it that's not a typo, ok, so you think the evidence speaks for itself, and that there is nothing in these designs linking these to anything with a more sinister background?


I do feel that the evidence speaks for itself as it is based in fact, not supposition. My experiences on this site have taught me that many people feel that the Great Seal is a Masonic emblem or group of images. You have walked everyone through the entire design/decision process and demonstrated it's true origins. I think the dearth of responses is that no one who believed it was a Masonic emblem/depiction can counter your point as it is so well researched.

[edit on 25-5-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Well, to be honest, i wanted to show as much information that i could find (historically) about the designs, however, i personally believe that what we are told here is what "they" want us to think, i dont think that what i have presented here is the nail in coffin so to speak, for this being totally non-illuminati tainted, and in fact i thought, if anything, it showed that the illuminati has wanted to weave their subliminal meanings, symbols, etc, into designs that would be in "our" faces everyday.

I was hoping for more research, explanation, could be added here, to alternative meanings, rather than whats stated here.


I find it ironic i seemed to of created the reverse effect lol.

I have held back on posting the images of designs on currency going right back to the start of US currency, mainly because of what seemed like a lack of interest, and again i also thought that the designs used in them, had hidden meanings, with the deities used, and symbolisms with certain imagery.





[edit on 25-5-2009 by Denied]

[edit on 25-5-2009 by Denied]



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by Denied
Well, to be honest, i wanted to show as much information that i could find (historically) about the designs, however, i personally believe that what we are told here is what "they" want us to think...


I think you should think what you want. You have offered up much here for anyone to postulate a rational and self-conceived conclusion.


...i dont think that what i have presented here is the nail in coffin so to speak, for this being totally non-illuminati tainted, and in fact i thought, if anything, it showed that the illuminati has wanted to weave their subliminal meanings, symbols, etc, into designs that would be in "our" faces everyday.


While not a final nail do you not find Benjamin Franklin's motto, Death To Tyrants as rather anti-Illuminati (if you are considering them from a conspiracy standpoint)?


I was hoping for more research, explanation, could be added here, to alternative meanings, rather than whats stated here.


I think you have posted nearly as much as there is to discover on the history and formation of the Great Seal.


I have held back on posting the images of designs on currency going right back to the start of US currency, mainly because of what seemed like a lack of interest, and again i also thought that the designs used in them, had hidden meanings, with the deities used, and symbolisms with certain imagery.


I encourage you to post them, I, for one, would like to see them and discuss anything that may capture my interest. Perhaps others my find reasons to converse over them as well.



[edit on 25-5-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on May, 25 2009 @ 08:35 PM
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This may not be much of a contribution...

I'm only going from memory here and have no research to back this up because although it's an interesting thread, I have many other interests and this doesn't really impact daily life...

That being said; Something does enhance daily life and many people have commented about how ... "In Yo Face" ... the back side of the newest bills (as many YouTube video's point out) can be folded to show the progression of the twin towers fatality.

ALL denominations above $1 bills are folded exactly the same, the result is the twin towers on 9/11 hit/burning/falling/more smoking...

I rarely carry cash and most recently with banks having issues, I find that I have a pocket full of all denominations. Every chance I get, I fold one or two or more for others just to see their reactions. Which are "Shock & Awe" that only American's can appreciate.


Anyhow, To my point. When the new $5 denomination (now it's many years ago) was introduced (they were only considering using colors on the bills at that time also) it was a rumor that, the design was finalized yet had to go to some "committee" for final, final approval.

At that point, they changed the final version. It wasn't up for discussion after that. To my mind that stinks. Again this was long ago like 20 years? or so... Now after 9/11 all the bills have changed dramatically.

Go check YouTube for how to fold the bills. Then get 1 of each denomination from the bank and see for yourself; show it to everyone. Get their reaction. Notice the facial expressions. There's real evidence that the gears are turning, where there wasn't anything more than American Idol (and mush)...

It wouldn't surprise me if the final design that appears (along with the owl in the upper right corner that my dad showed me using a loupe almost 30 years ago) on the back of the $1 bill didn't go through the same "finalization committee".

BTW Very nice thread ... I love the history and designs are fantastic.



posted on Feb, 14 2012 @ 05:00 PM
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Old thread, thought id give it a bump, see what people thought.

We all know the $1 bill and all its symbolic meanings, but what about older designs, going back before that, feel free to post any designs you find, and possible meanings, if any, to what we are seeing on them.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by Denied
Old thread, thought id give it a bump, see what people thought.

We all know the $1 bill and all its symbolic meanings, but what about older designs, going back before that, feel free to post any designs you find, and possible meanings, if any, to what we are seeing on them.
Well, as you proved, there was nothing either Illuminati nor Masonic about the Great Seal in the final design.

What I find both interesting, and at times infuriating, is that the supposition that an all-seeing eye atop an unfinished pyramid ever WAS an Illuminati symbol was, as far as I have been able to determine, ENTIRELY MADE UP by a conspiracy theorist, William Guy Carr in his 1956 book Pawns in the Game. He claims it was an Illuminati symbol but never cites any of his sources. He's been caught making up other stuff elsewhere in the same book. And I have a decent personal library of conspiracy texts that are much older than that and none of them make such a claim.

So from the research I've done, there are no claims making a connection between the reverse of the Great Seal and the Illuminati that predate 1956. Therefore, every conspiracy theorist since then who believes there IS a connection has been taken in by one author's hoax.



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 06:12 PM
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yeah i see what your saying, so do you think that the $1 bill has no hidden symbolic meanings to it at all??
edit on 15-2-2012 by Denied because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by Denied
yeah i see what your saying, so do you think that the $1 bill has no hidden symbolic meanings to it at all??
Hidden symbolic meanings? No I don't. There is symbolism, but it's all right there in plain sight. 13 for the 13 colonies; pyramid for strength; unfinished because it's a work in progress; eye for God, who oversees our undertakings; 1776 because that's the year our country was founded.

Period.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Edit to add: Conspiracy theorists also try to make a claim that drawing a hexagram on the seal points to letters that spell MASON (conveniently forgetting that MASON is a 5 letter word, not 6). But if Masons are so hooked on sacred geometry, you'd think they'd get the angles right. Here's that seal rotated 60°. Not exactly balanced, now, is it?
edit on 2012.2.15 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2012 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton
So from the research I've done, there are no claims making a connection between the reverse of the Great Seal and the Illuminati that predate 1956. Therefore, every conspiracy theorist since then who believes there IS a connection has been taken in by one author's hoax.

Just to further that, if you're interested in the research, the other hoax that William Guy Carr perpetuated was the Three World Wars correspondence between Pike and Mazzini. It's been quite thoroughly debunked here (by a guy who's no friend to Masons, no less.) He came to the conclusion that Carr made up the Three World Wars letter entirely. It's a pretty convincing find, yet there are still threads claiming it as real every couple of months here on ATS.





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