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NIBIRU - What is Science & What is Fiction? Is there Science at all?

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posted on May, 18 2009 @ 06:29 PM
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I have seen lots and lots of threads on the Nibiru thing...

To be honest i never paid much attention to the speculations and the matter in general since i thought it too far fetched of a thing to keep secret.

Its not as if it can be hiden behind a curtain or something...

However i see a thread on Nibiru coming up every so often.
Its hard to make out what is WhaT and if WhaT exists at all.

I am confident that there are some competent and knowledgeable fellow members around as always to separate science from fiction as far as Nibiru is concerned, as well give some info if there is any science at all or this complete matter is pure mythology.

Thanks




posted on May, 18 2009 @ 07:57 PM
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Nibiru was first proposed as a planet on a 3600-year collision course with Earth by Zecharia Sitchin, author of several books purporting to explain the origins of humanity from translations of ancient Sumerian texts.

This planet (Nibiru) was, according to Sitchin, inhabited by an advanced race that had a hand in early humanity. Of course, Nibiru is also claimed to have destroyed a planet between Mars and Jupiter named Tiamet, creating the asteroid belt.

His translations are accepted to be incorrect by most, as are his assumptions, as evidenced by several websites devoted to pointing out his errors; Sitchiniswrong website seems fairly complete.

Of course, for my money, I would love to know how it destroyed another planet in the solar system, yet was not destroyed itself (or at least knocked completely from its 'orbit' and sent careening) in such an event.

Just my two shells' worth.



posted on May, 18 2009 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by GEORGETHEGREEK
 


Yea I think Nibiru is complete BS, but that is just me.....

If anyone really understands basic celestial mechanics and astronomy they would know that a brown dwarf (Nibiru is supposed to be that, or a planet orbiting one by others) would totally disrupt the current KNOWN orbits of planets.

[edit on 5/18/2009 by jkrog08]



posted on May, 18 2009 @ 09:18 PM
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As it stand Nibiru is just Fiction. There is ZERO science behind the idea. Absolutely NONE.

NASA has debunked the idea, if a "Planet" of Nibiru's size...or rather the size it supposed to be. was going to come close to us in 2012. we would be able to see it already.

Its all Mathematical. An object only travels at a certain speed in space and we can see very far in space. We would have seeN it already, especially a large planet.

Its coming from behind the sun! Well here’s the bad news the earth moves around the sun every 365 ¼ days. So if Nibiru was unseen today , In 6 months time we will be on the exact side of the sun where the planet is.

Its impossible for Nibiru to move and hide behind the sun, i.e always be on the opposite side as we move around, as if Nibiru is further out in space and us being closer in. We will move around the sun a lot quicker than an object much further away. Hence that’s why we see all the other Planets. Sometimes they too are hidden behind the Sun, but after a few months we see them again.

Save your time and energy on this one. Wait for someone to “really” see the planet.

You might have already seeN some youtube video’s wHere someone has pictures of an object next to the sun. Its all B.S they either using a Glass to refract the sun’s image or its another planet that’s in that path and will soon move off.

The Earth rotates 365 times around its own Axis and takes 365 ¼ days to go completely around the Sun. Can’t Hide behind the Sun.

We can also see below and Above the sun. There is no Hiding a large Planet 3 times the size of EARTH.

The recent Brown Dwarf they found 28% larger than Pluto-which was the furtherest "planet" from the sun.(Pluto is no longer a Planet-its been down graded to a Brown dwarf) its called ERIS. Means Goddess of Strife... It is 290 year away from getting close enough to the sun to start melting the Ice that it has on it.

We can see all these BIG planets and Brown dwarfs but not Nibiru...B.S



[edit on 18-5-2009 by SharkBait]

[edit on 18-5-2009 by SharkBait]



posted on May, 18 2009 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by SharkBait
 



.(Pluto is no longer a Planet-its been down graded to a Brown dwarf) its called ERIS.


I totally agree with you that Nibiru is BS, however you are incorrect in your statement that Pluto has been reclassified as a brown dwarf and is called Eris. Pluto has been reclassified a few years ago by the IAU (International Astronomical Union) and is no longer a planet, as it does not meet the three criteria. But it is not a brown dwarf, a brown dwarf is a failed star, somewhat like Jupiter but larger in mass. Pluto has been reclassified as a "Plutoid" or planetoid. Eris is another planetoid in the outer reaches of the solar system but before the Oort Cloud. Here is some more information to clear that up for you



Brown dwarfs are sub-stellar objects with a mass below that necessary to maintain hydrogen-burning nuclear fusion reactions in their cores, as do stars on the main sequence, but which have fully convective surfaces and interiors, with no chemical differentiation by depth. Brown dwarfs occupy the mass range between that of large gas giant planets and the lowest mass stars; this upper limit is between 75[1] and 80 Jupiter masses (MJ). Currently there is some debate as to what criterion to use to define the separation between a brown dwarf from a giant planet at very low brown dwarf masses (~13 MJ ), and whether brown dwarfs are required to have experienced fusion at some point in their history. In any event, brown dwarfs heavier than 13 MJ do fuse deuterium and those above ~65 MJ also fuse lithium. The only planets known to orbit brown dwarfs are 2M1207b and MOA-2007-BLG-192Lb.




Pluto and Eris as dwarf planets...


Pluto (pronounced /ˈpluːtoʊ/ (help·info),[8] from Latin: Plūto), formal designation (134340) Pluto, is the second-largest known dwarf planet in the Solar System (after Eris) and the tenth-largest body observed directly orbiting the Sun. Originally classified as a planet, Pluto is now considered the largest member of a distinct population called the Kuiper belt.[9]

Like other members of the Kuiper belt, Pluto is composed primarily of rock and ice and is relatively small: approximately a fifth the mass of the Earth's Moon and a third its volume. It has an eccentric and highly inclined orbit that takes it from 30 to 49 AU (4.4–7.4 billion km) from the Sun. This causes Pluto periodically to come closer to the Sun than Neptune.

Pluto and its largest moon, Charon, are sometimes treated together as a binary system because the barycentre of their orbits does not lie within either body.[10] The International Astronomical Union (IAU) has yet to formalise a definition for binary dwarf planets, and until it passes such a ruling, Charon is classified as a moon of Pluto.[11] Pluto has two known smaller moons, Nix and Hydra, discovered in 2005.[12] Like Uranus, Pluto rotates on its "side" relative to its orbital plane, and the Pluto-Charon system does also.[13]

From its discovery in 1930 until 2006, Pluto was considered the Solar System's ninth planet. In the late 1970s, following the discovery of minor planet 2060 Chiron in the outer Solar System and the recognition of Pluto's very low mass, its status as a major planet began to be questioned.[14] Later, in the early 21st century, many objects similar to Pluto were discovered in the outer solar system, notably the scattered disc object Eris, which is 27% more massive than Pluto.[15] On August 24, 2006, the IAU defined the term "planet" for the first time. This definition excluded Pluto as a planet, and added it as a member of the new category "dwarf planet" along with Eris and Ceres.[16] After the reclassification, Pluto was added to the list of minor planets and given the number 134340.[17][18] A number of scientists continue to hold that Pluto should be classified as a planet.[19]




Example of other dwarf planets, transneptunian planets, or Plutoids (whatever you choose to call them)...



Text and image courtesy of wikipedia.org



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by GEORGETHEGREEK
 


Zecharia Sitchin wrote in his early books that Nibiru was not scheduled to visit the Earth until 2600AD (in or around that date). He also claimed Nibiru was a planet and not a dwarf star like some of these sites have claimed. The Pioneer space probes ruled out a dwarf star being near the sun (50 billion miles), and Mr Sitchin stated that proved his point that Nibiru was a planet.

With 2012 being the Mayan date on which their calendar ends, many other end of the world sites latched onto the idea that Nibiru would return then. Obviously, they did not read Mr Sitchin's early works. I have not read his later books, so he may have changed the date to sell more books.

BTW, Mr Sitchin claims knowledge of Nibiru through his interpretation of the Sumerian tablets, even though he acknowledges he has never majored in ancient Sumerian history and was schooled in how to read the tablets. Many scholars debate the meaning Mr Sitchin has assigned to the tablets, although they do get ignored in favor of the more colorful theories.



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by Razorblade
 



Sitchin was born in Baku, Azerbaijan, and was raised in Palestine. He acquired some knowledge of modern and ancient Hebrew, other Semitic and European languages, the Old Testament, and the history and archeology of the Near East. Sitchin graduated from the London School of Economics, University of London, majoring in economic history. A journalist and editor in Israel for many years, he now lives and writes in New York City. His books have been widely translated, converted to braille for the blind, and featured on radio and television.


I bothered looking into who Sitchin is from your phrase:
Nibiru was first proposed as a planet on a 3600-year collision course with Earth by Zecharia Sitchin, author of several books purporting to explain the origins of humanity from translations of ancient Sumerian texts.

Judging from his above curriculum my opinion is that he is only able to make speculations on ancient texts based on the knowledge of the past.

This does not mean in any way that his speculations may be scientifically right. In fact this is archeology and science only to the extend of studying the ancients texts of whatever culture. I see no objective science on his claims.
My opinion draws from the above extract from WikipediA stating that his major is in economic history.
Furthermore i haven't seen any special knowledge on his behalf in the science of astronomy which makes his picture lack even more in credit.

He sounds like a great author, probably of best sellers too, but that's another thing. If his speculations are the whole basis of the Nibiru case i have to assume that its complete mythology in absence of modern scientific facts & data.

My above thoughts make it unnecessary to visit your provided link at the moment although i deem it to be of great value and i will keep it in mind for future reference if necessary.



reply to post by jkrog08
 


I am quite sure that the total disruption of the current KNOWN orbits of planets, if there was really a case for Nibiru, would be something quite easily noticeable by a great number of scientists/astronomers.
I deem it most unlikely that no one would come public if there was any evidence at all. Keeping this secret is highly unlikely and i agree with you!

Nibiru must be complete mythology.


reply to post by SharkBait
 


You are making an astonishingly clear point of why Nibiru is most probably complete mythology.
Everyone else would answer his ideas sort of the way i did above.

However in your post you make it clear that its virtually impossible to have Nibiru hiden by the Sun or by any other object for that matter.
Plannet trajectories just make this quite an impossible thing to happen.

I admire the fact that you went to all this length to explain some facts, share your knowledge and help us all have better and clearer perception.

Your little lesson is something many of us already knew but failed to point out. As soon as i finish my reply i will go back and star your post. I believe i can although its in a thread of my own.

You also get my thumbs :up
for the fact that you have studied YouTube videos of "Nibiru" and you state some methods utilised to fake them.
You were right. There are many people influenced by those videos.
To be honest i was stimulated to make this thread by one such video where there is a ...double sun, second one alleged to be "Nibiru" ... it was impressive and scary to see such a large "second sun behind our sun. Intimidating indeed but that second sun hiding behind ours would have to be really HUGE if it were far behind, so your debugging on how they refract the sun's image to create that second image is REALLY VALUABLE.

Thanks even for sparking jkrog08 to elaborate on astronomy. Although its not important as to the Nibiru case, its always nice to get to learn or remember a few things on astronomy, which is an objective science unlike astrology.

(...many may argue about that astrology statement. I will give astrology some little credit but i wouldn't go as far as calling it science, although Mr Sitchin sounds as a person who would credit it for scientific data...)

So far this thread helps me adopt you statement:

As it stands Nibiru is just Fiction. There is ZERO science behind the idea. Absolutely NONE.


I am pretty sure that there is a great deal of people that will be relieved from the Nibiru nightmare

THANKS !



reply to post by kidflash2008
 


Well well ... !!!

It seems that you are making it easy to see how that whole Nibiru mythology came to grow on people. There is a complete industry out there seeking to make money out of speculations on unscientific evidence constantly readjusted to make money out of people's fear.

If there is any basis at all its quite ridiculous how a date is changed from 2600 AD to 2012 AD to fit the end of the Mayan calendar...


Its also nice to know that:

he (Mr. Sitchin) acknowledges he has never majored in ancient Sumerian history and was schooled in how to read the tablets

It further shows that his ideas must not be taken seriously since he may not be credible at all in reading those tablets.

Its also nice to know, although quite disappointing that:

Many scholars debate the meaning Mr Sitchin has assigned to the tablets, although they do get ignored in favor of the more colorful theories.
Fame over science and malpractice over science...
What a disappointment...

I have to really thank you for sharing the above with us.

It was really helpful in making a better picture on the "Nibiru" case, and why there is no science behind its. THANKS !




posted on May, 19 2009 @ 09:03 PM
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Please let me preface this post by saying that I am not a believer in Planet Nibiru returning in 2012 as so many preposterous sites claim.

However, for the OP and other replies in this thread, if I may give a little edification on the subject. In no where place or time does Sitchin claim that 1. Nibiru would be on a collision course with Earth, and 2. At no time does he claim that Nibiru would come in our orbital path in 2012. These are purely BS subjections by imposters that are merely trying to exploit money from suseceptable and guillable people. (a la Marshall Mathers, yowusa.com)


It is quite sad actually, becasue Sitchin has made some very interesting discoveries pertaining to the pyramids in Egypt and Mexico. He has brought forth some very interesting points concerning our origins and has collected quite a bit of circumstantial evidence.

People should really learn to not take people's presumptions as facts on subjects they have not done the research on. I've done the research, so I would suggest to the OP to put in the research if they really want to know what Sitchin has claimed, particularly his theories on Nibiru.

"The only thing that I am certain about 2012 is that there will be a presidential election, and that whom ever you vote for you will most likely say, let's get rid of the bum" - Zecharia Sitchin

This is a very interesting presentation by Sitchin

The Return of the Annunaki 2012

[edit on 19-5-2009 by OnTheFelt]



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by OnTheFelt
 


Thank you for your participation!
I have no knowledge of Mr. Sitchin's work.
I also don't doubt that there's lots of ancient knowledge that would make us stand in owe was it the case we found out today.
However this "Nibiru" thing as i have come to learn out of this thread is more than ridiculous....
I do not doubt that Mr. Sitchin has achieved some merit in archeology, maybe even in history. Had he not he wouldn't be very influential. Its just my feeling that there might be a lot of error/misinterpretation in some of his work.

You know perception is a great thing. However if your perception is less than required by the circumstances you most often get to have the wrong idea of things or at least not the complete picture which might have something different to say.


Personally i have to many things to do in my life and too little time to bother studying about Nibiru. If circumstances show it's required i might change my stance. For now i will save my time for more important things


However i must thank you. I will have a look at your provided link


Take care!



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 09:27 PM
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I'm happy that you saved yourself a lot of hassle searching and hunting down the Nibiru story.

I think the whole thing is about Money, The Nostradamus crowd have jumped on this story and of course now they have found the "lost Book" of Nostradamus . B.S.



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by GEORGETHEGREEK
reply to post by OnTheFelt
 



I do not doubt that Mr. Sitchin has achieved some merit in archeology, maybe even in history. Had he not he wouldn't be very influential. Its just my feeling that there might be a lot of error/misinterpretation in some of his work.



You may find this interesting when you have time to read it:
www.geocities.com...


Zecharia Sitchin's The 12th Planet purports to contain "indisputable documentary proof" that all of humanity was created by a group of aliens who visited this planet between roughly 450,000 BC and 13,000 BC. The aliens created humanity by combining their DNA with that of the proto-humans the found on Earth in a scheme to create somewhat intelligent workers for the mining enterprises they were founding on Earth.

This work is intended to be an analysis of Sitchin's book in light of mainstream archeological thought about ancient Sumeria and mainstream science in other fields such as aerospace engineering, astronomy, evolution, Bible research, and so on.



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 11:52 PM
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Originally posted by SharkBait
I'm happy that you saved yourself a lot of hassle searching and hunting down the Nibiru story.

I think the whole thing is about Money, The Nostradamus crowd have jumped on this story and of course now they have found the "lost Book" of Nostradamus . B.S.



This is exactly what I mean. Where does one connect Nostradamus's lost book with Sitchin or Nibiru? Well easy, you DON'T! This is exactly the kind of narrow minded thinking that unfairly tarnishes many teachers, scientists and explorers years of hard work and research.

Ironically, people try to equate so many things with 2012 and then what happens is that uninformed people just assume that all these ancient prophicies are insignificant and only relegated to that specific civilization.

The fact is that what 2012 represents symbollically is a convergence of many great events that happen at the same time. In fact, Nostradumus speaks of 16 potential events or precursors that could potentially mark this period of time.

It is this very thinking of ignoring our ancient histories that will destroy us - Nostradamus



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by GEORGETHEGREEK
 


I totally understand. For me, as a writer, I had severe writer's block and was looking for new story concepts. About it a year and half ago, I stumbled on the whole 2012 phenomenon, and as they say the rest was history. But I half to say that looking back I almost wish I hadn't stumbled upon my journey for finding the true meaning and prophecies of 2012. It is a heavy burden and very very troublesome. Not just because of the potential ramifications that await mankind, but having to sift through all the bogus crap that is out there.

I am new as a contributor here, but very soon, I hope to share on this site a true and honest assesment of 2012, a simplification of sorts for the lamen to understand and grasp.

For now here is a list of people that I feel are very credible on 2012 and whom also each bring their own unique aspect concerning this phenomenon as well. But like anything, you must take everything with a grain of salt

David Wilcox
Nassim Haramein
John Major Jenkins
Ivan Stein
Doug Braden
David Icke
Benjamin Fulford
Zacharia Sitchin
Ben Stewart
Richard Hoagland



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by OnTheFelt
 


In my opinion there is propably some change to come along round about 2012, but that's about it...

People have been conditioned so much about 2012 that anything might look as a change. Maybe change will arrise out of that conditioning itself...
People tend to notice/manifest things more when consciousness revolves around specific areas.

For example if i stated:

" Many people have pets, "

you might notice for some length of time that there are plenty of people around walking their dog, something that the mind would otherwise dismiss as unimportant information. This would probably fade of as soon as something else becomes a stimulus.

My point is that there is a high probability 2012 is not really different than any other year so far. There is a high negative stimulus panicking people around the globe that is mostly not substantiated.

As it turns out Nibiru is out of the question of being a threat.
As far as i am concerned Nibiru may not even really exist![/Orange]

I was hopping to find out a thing or two about the matter and
it turns out that this thread may come as a great relief to many
that panic or get stressed by this alleged upcoming threat.


There are in my opinion other much more important and threatening things to worry about. Real matters that are also objective.

One such matter is the abuse we daily commit to our planet...
That is a threat. We should have changed our perspective on ecology long ago, along with our obligation to live in harmony with the planet, ourselves and all the other Earthlings.

Modern politics are also a threat and they are an outcome of the above.
We have drifted too far from the simple and meaningful life, having created for ourselves a lot of subjective burden and complications which in turn take away the real meaning and joy of life. Nibiru was/is one of those misdirections.

We must rethink and conform soon before we are doomed by our own actions.

[edit on 20/5/2009 by GEORGETHEGREEK]



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by GEORGETHEGREEK
 


There is a site called Sitchin is wrong:

www.sitchiniswrong.com...

The author goes through the claims and disputes each one of them.

I have read the early books and find them entertaining. Mr Sitchin does ask a lot of good questions, but his answers are a little out there for me. If you are interested, your local library can order the early books and you would not have to spend any money to read the books.



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by kidflash2008
 


Dear kidflash2008,

First of all i am situated in Greece. This makes it a bit hard to have the books of Mr. Sitchin (which are by the way in another language other than Greek) , available in my local library.

Secondly you ask me to study books of a single man on the future of Earth and its destiny. Forgive me but i cannot do that. My academic background does not allow me to get into the foul logic of being based on a single reference, especially when that reference is clouded.

I started this thread in order to see if there was any basis in Nibiru without much earlier serious study or opinion.

The thread wasn't created to reject Nibiru.

It could go either way depending on the
as always wise, contribution of ATS members.


The input so far outlines that there is no basis to the Nibiru mythology and that therefore there is no basis for me or to anyone else for that matter to further participate in that mythology.

You stated that you found his earlier books entertaining. Before this thread i had never heard of any Mr. Sitchin. I trust that he is quite some personality with some credible work too.
However i feel my time too precious to not be engaged in study of other more important work. As far as entertainment is concerned i don't feel i am going to be entertained. I have other interests in my entertainment which often consists of normally non relaxing study/work.


So far i haven't even visited the link you provided, which had again been offered earlier in this thread. Here are some of more reasons:

->>>So far this thread points that Sitchin is wrong anyway, so there is no point.

->>>"His translations are accepted to be incorrect by most, as are his assumptions, as evidenced by several websites devoted to pointing out his errors; Sitchiniswrong website seems fairly complete. " as stated by Razorblade. So in fact i already know what i am going to find in the site, as to the previous sentence by Razorblade suggests, so there is no point.

->>> I have my mind open to all possibilities, but i am not yet/so far convinced there is a Nibiru case at all and therefore a need to visit that website, so there is no point.

I welcome your motives, your time in replying to this thread and you also have my respect. Its just me discovering that people should not waste time in Nibiru and so shouldn' t i. If we were to keep falling in the Nibiru loop then this thread would be a total waste of thought, space and time!

Take care!

GTG

[edit on 20/5/2009 by GEORGETHEGREEK]



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by GEORGETHEGREEK
 


I offered the library solution as I have had many books ordered from other libraries to read the more fringe authors. Mr Sitchin's books were available at the local library so I picked them up for entertainment purposes.

I am sorry if the meaning of what I stated was lost.

On the possibility of Nibiru, they have found some plutoids to have erratic orbits around the sun, but they do not come close to the Earth. Some pass Neptune like Pluto, but so far there has not been a planet discovered that comes close to ours.

There would also be the question of how such a planet would support life. It would have to be volcanically active and have an internal heat source. It would also need a very thick cloud cover to retain the heat. Temperatures outside of the planet would be hundreds of degrees below zero. The sun would look like a star for the most part, and there would be no heat coming from it. How would life evolve from that type of orbit?

The planet is said to be at least twice the size of the Earth. Why has it not been discovered yet? Many probes have been sent out to measure for a larger planet and have come up with nothing. (The Pioneer space probes ruled out any dwarf star.) A gas giant would have been discovered by now and one of the theories is that Nibiru is a moon of the gas giant planet.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by Pauligirl
 


Hello


I did not really feel like going through the whole script.

Hpwever i had a few looks here and there and then i jumped to the conclusion of your provided link. Here is what it reads:


Conclusion Clearly, Sitchin is a smart man. He weaves a complicated tale from the bits and pieces of evidence that survive from ancient Sumeria to the present day. Just as clearly, Sitchin is capable of academic transgressions (fracturing quotes, ignoring dissenting facts), theft of intellectual property (those tables he copied) and flights of intellectual fancy (the whole book, really). Worst of all, he is almost utterly innocent of astronomy and other assorted fields of modern science. He nevertheless paints a picture that is very attractive. One wants to believe it, for it explains so many things. Intellectual honesty, however, prevents anyone with common sense, access to archeological and astronomical data and the ability to read from taking his book seriously. In the end, he's just another nut making a living selling books that treat folks to a tale they want to believe in.


I will repeat your kindly contributed link for anyone interested to check.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by kidflash2008
 


Helo


I have a question:
Why would it ave to sustain life?

I also have a proposition:
You cannot discover nonexistent mythical things in reality.



Take care



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 08:41 PM
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I think its fiction, 3600 year orbit seems outrageous. The sun's gravitational pull has limits and for such a large object to travel so far out of the solar without breaking free gives me doubts



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