It's Official: Bush Admin Saw Iraq As Religious War

reply to post by Retseh

And well they should be concerned about a vendetta!
This nightmare chased many honest Americans away. When I realized what this "administration" (that got in power by wiping out existing votes in Florida using Dad's friends at the Supreme Court - something no one dared to pull in two hundred plus years of history) was about, I decided I would not go back to the US until it lasted. And I was not paying taxes to such illegal regime that committed mass murder that is still going on - using the mightiest military of the planet.
Too many things about this are like the story of Nazi Germany. Germany was one of the greatest cultures (of the white man's world) before Nazism. So was America before Bushism.
When I chose to become American in 84, the only thing that scared me were "Christian" right wing orators with their Hitler-like rant such as Falwell and Robertson. I could soon foresee that on the ruins of consciousness created by the plastic shopping center-society, a new Fascism could easily rise. And it did. I did not like Clinton precisely because he sold out to those Fascist Bible-thumpers and gave up on national health care.

I liked this Republicrat even less when he bombed Serbia with uranium bombs. The intervention was late, misinformed, did not help people suffering from Milosevic's thugs and had ugly results: depleted uranium is a deadly poison.
Bush did the same thing in Afghanistan then Iraq.
These two countries will suffer FOR TENS OF MILLIONS OF YEARS to come from hundreds of tons of DU spread all over the land.
Can you calculate how much would that be in birth defects and cancer sentences - imposed by a drunkard who cheated his way up to power and his "patriotic" friends - who stole trillions from US taxpayers?
We haven't even begun to wake up to the horrors that this "administration" created.
Yes, it was right that there was a vendetta against Nazis after their losing the war. Imagine, even today old men are found by Nazi hunters, old men who had created hell in the lives of others because of their fanatical "might is right" beliefs.

Then this is the "administration" that created retroactive laws, put private debts into the hands of the State Department and hunted down dissident Americans with that pretext on foreign soil. I was found in Europe - in 2001.

Compare 9/11 to the burning of the Reichstag...

Last but not least: they "won" in '04 by cheating well documented. Amazing that their own company did the counting! Like their own Supreme Court pals did the judgment against Gore in 2000. Truly Nazi-like methods...
And their weird, far out beliefs paralleling Hitler's beliefs that said Jewish people came from a non-human race. Let me just mention two:

1. The Holy Land (including the entire Middle East), according to the religious right prophets, would be soon conquered by the US, led by the Religious Right, in alliance with Israel's right wing, and after they win, and extiguish Islam there, the Christ would return to cheer everyone (have they already sent him an email giving the date?) then - listen to this - all Jews would suddenly recognize him and somehow spontaneously convert to (right-wing and anti-environmental) Christianity... (Fat chance for that...)

2. Armageddon would come anyway so screw the environment... Right...

I personally think Bushists responsible for these crimes should be answering for them - especially for DU poisoning, and the millions of murders and torture and prostitution and drugs imposed upon the non-US part of the world as well as dictatorial measures at home. HAARP misuse.
The damage is far worse than we realize. This was one ofthe most frightening aggressive regime in world history - in retrospect we will see it coming close to Nazism. Except that Hitler was a better actor than Bush and Goering had a better sense of humor than Rumsfeld did... (I am Jewish BTW).

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by visible_villain
Let's just cut to the chase -

What if it were a quote by Hitler or Goebbles ?

Well, I have that hunch again that a quote by Hitler or Goebbels wouldn't be used on a US military cover sheet it that instance.

But I could definitely see a quote from Stalin or Mao with this administration.

[edit on 5/19/09 by Ferris.Bueller.II]

Originally posted by jerico65

Every time we flew, we had the padre say a few words. I guess that makes it a religious war, huh?

That's highly fallacious.

A blessing from a Padre pre-flight is hardly the same as bible quotes garnishing the pages of reports issued by your commander in chief, hoping to bolster support for a war that is seen the world over as some sort of religious crusade.

I have never once believed that the Iraq War was over oil, WMDs or Sadam's nefarious regime.

I have believed from day one, that this has only ever been about the Possession and Domination of "BABYLON".




'Those wars are unjust which are undertaken without provocation. For only a war waged for revenge or defense can be just."
—Cicero


"Violence can only be concealed by a lie, and the lie can only be maintained by violence. Any man who has once proclaimed violence as his method is inevitably forced to take the lie as his principle."
—Solzhenitsyn


"You can’t say that civilization don’t advance … for in every war they kill you a new way."
—Will Rogers




[edit on 19-5-2009 by azureskys]

How long would a staff member last, if s/he put this on the cover page instead

They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. (Isaiah 2:4)

or this quote from a former POTUS (Eisenhower's farewell address)

"Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations."

No, invading Iraq was the perfect storm of several factors, one of them being the push from the religious fundamentalist base of the Republican Party for "end times".

reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II
Stalin or Mao?
I have lived in a Stalinist country in the 60's. I am afraid you do not know what you are talking about. Just because Obama has decidedly veered away from the absurd right-wing fundamentalism openly taking over American statecraft since 1980, Stalin and Mao?

Whatever remains scary (homeland security etc.) has not been disassembled yet.

Saturn in Leo brought the insane Reagan-Thatcher doctrine. Now 30 years later (Satrun in Leo again - sidereal chart) it is finally falling apart - sooner than the Soviet Union did (it lasted 70 years) because it was based upon an even more fallacious philosophy...

Please...

Bush will do time. As will Cheney.

Mr. Obama is not perfect and no one can ever satisfy every voter's taste.
But he is certainly not Stalin or Mao. Nor will he ever be. Have you ever lived in a country where you have to muffle the phone with a pillow?

Mr. Obama is simply a President elected finally outside of the impenetrable right-wing tyranny ever since they executed Kennedy. Duh....

reply to post by Kokatsi


Did I say he was Stalin or Mao? No.
Did you assume I did without comprehending what I said? Yes.

You don't have to be the devil to glorify him.

Originally posted by mattifikation
No, I'm not in the military. Nor have I ever been. I'm getting a bit sick of your "I'm better than you because I was in the military" attitude.

Oh well. Harden up a bit and it probably won't bother you anymore.

Originally posted by mattifikation
You think I'm a bad person for calling the terrorists "diaper heads?" You've actually joined up to go kill them, so you're in no place to talk.

Nah, not bad, just funny. And yep, I have no problem with terrorists being faceshot. Not the main reason I joined, tho.

Originally posted by mattifikation
Whether you buy into the whole "religious war" thing or not doesn't change the fact that when people say "who cares?" they lose the right to call themselves human. Humans care about humans.

People are saying "who cares" about the cover sheets and what's on them. I mean, isn't that the topic here?

Originally posted by mattifikation
Nobody's complaining about the other side making this a religious war because the other side isn't the topic here. YOUR side is the topic, Mr. Proud Soldier.

Yeah, no one does complain what the insurgents do, just what the US military does. And the fact is that they put some quotes from the Bible on a cover sheet.

reply to post by Retseh


The point is, Bush sent the American army, with my own country tagging along, and we've killed many, many innocent lives for what? Oil? A religious war? Does that sound right to you??

If a serial killer in your area was picking off your neighbours one by one, I'm pretty sure you'd do something about it, if not, you're a coward. The same applies here. The bush administration are war criminals, no matter which awful excuse they have for motivation, they still need to be brought to justice.

Originally posted by Kokatsi
Mr. Obama is not perfect and no one can ever satisfy every voter's taste.
But he is certainly not Stalin or Mao. Nor will he ever be. Have you ever lived in a country where you have to muffle the phone with a pillow?

Most Americans have never had to live in a society as you describe. Here, there have been citizens (members of congress even) who have had illegal phone taps, or individuals suffering from paranoia ("a psychological disorder characterized by delusions of persecution or grandeur) who believe "the govt" is spying on them, but, no, America has not been turned into a nation made to suffer paranoia.

Words such as Stalin or Mao (since "socialism" wasn't enough of a scare!) are thrown around as scare tactics, casting nets around those who do not understand or are ignorant (in the nicest sense of that word!) or classically paranoid.

Originally posted by Retseh

Originally posted by drwizardphd


Personally, it just comes across as a vendetta against an administration that liberals continue to obsess about.

Perhaps, but it is also about holding accountable those reponsible for the mess in which we find ourselves. When a misdeed/injustice/crime has been committed--especially something so serious that it negatively affects most of the people of this country--it is our Duty, as Americans, to correct and to right it. If Obama does something like that, he gets no slack either. If we do not learn or correct the mistakes that we allowed to happen, we open up the future for the same things. It has nothing to do with anti-Bush/republican (well, to some it does, just as to some things're only about anti-Obama/democrat).

That's the point.

[edit on 19-5-2009 by Liquesence]

This is what you said:

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
But I could definitely see a quote from Stalin or Mao with this administration.

I could understand this only one way - Obama's people or himself could be quoting Stalin or Mao.

So what's the relationship of "this administration" to Stalin or Mao in your opinion?

Besides being slightly more favourable towards communities and the future than towards private corporations, the rich and next year's profit margin?

(maybe not enough in my opinion)

reply to post by desert
Thanks! I think you undewrstood my point and replied at equal depth. I still have hopes of being American... because of experiences like this exchange here.

I think Bush had his ear to the CIA rather than just the bible on the Iraq war. I am not surprised today that Obama had follow more closer to their line than he would have liked. Even if he is inclined to double talk. Before 9/11 he was working on a pipeline that fell threw. I am sure that the big reason for being there today is about *oil* and the location due to Iran. Even Alan Greenspan agreed that was the case.

Originally posted by Markafeller
I am sure that the big reason for being there today is about *oil* and the location due to Iran. Even Alan Greenspan agreed that was the case.

Keep in mind that good ol' Al is not a military tactician and has about zero experience with the military.

Originally posted by jerico65
reply to post by grover

 

How come no one seems to get all irate when video from insurgents have them chanting "Allah Akbar"? Seems that they are fighting this as a religious war.

Because those who wanted this war to happen for religious beliefs had no reason to put our troops and all of America at risk when they/we don't all share those beliefs.

We have no control over the reasons the terrorists decided to go to war. Quite frankly, it's just as wrong, IMO, for them to do so.

Originally posted by Retseh
Who cares.

This is all fast becoming ancient history.

Liberals need to get over this, we could still be prosecuting Clinton for attempted rape, but what's the point, no one cares any more.

Attempted rape is the least of the things Clinton could be tried for. How about giving nuclear and rocket secrets to the Communist Chinese? Then there was the whole child prostitution thing at Boys Town tied to the Democrats and coc aine smuggling.

This argument that "your" man is worse than "our" man is BS!!!

We should not excuse Clinton or Bush for being evil buffoons. BOTH OF THEM NEED TO BE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE!!

Man you guys get a hold of info that you love and you take off with it. No matter what.

These memos didn't come from the Presidents office. The cover sheets in question came from General Shaffer. Rumsfield hand carried them to President Bush.

The only thing Bush had to do with it was that he recieved it with the memos they were attached to.

But the "this is proof Bush saw this as a religious war" rant will continue.

reply to post by jd140

Bush WAS quoted as being inspired by God to win that war. It would be easy to prove this from mainstream media.
It was quite some years ago. The linking of his private beliefs to the act of war caused quite an uproar, not his belief per se.

The thing is, he tolerated such document covers for a reason.
As Commander-in-Chief, he is responsible.

I am not against God, but America is a secular republic. By perpetrating and/or allowing these formalities our leaders sank to the level of Muslim fundamentalists they so despise.

OK, I have not seen these myself etc. But to my standards of testing truth they pass as believable.
If somebody posted a theory that Bush was secretly a mushroom, that would be difficult for me to accept even with scientific reasoning...

[edit on 19-5-2009 by SonyAD]