I mean this quite seriously

reply to post by WickettheRabbit


Well at least your not one of those people that believe that fossils were put in the ground by "the devil". I cannot even begin to go on about how dangerous thinking like that is

Originally posted by WickettheRabbit
reply to post by KarlG

 

Do you believe the collective thought of humans created a God-type figure? Why would it be hard to believe for you then that God-type entity could create humans?

I don't get the logic.

Because I believe, no, I know, the power of the human mind. All of us, we have such power locked up in these brains of ours. Will, and imagination, etc. etc. Can u not imagine a WHOLE MASS OF PEOPLE, all over the world, just believing in a singular entity?

On a metaphysical scale, these combined beliefs would no doubt shape or give energy to some representation of the God evryone believes in, especially since these beliefs have lasted since eons ago.

Yet, when you say "God created us all", there is no reason to believe that, because one entity cannot create THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE, with all its nuances, no matter how powerful that person is - and I have yet to seen anyone with that power. It's nt a matter of proof, though that certainly is a factor - it's just a matter of which has more basis in time.

The history of religion, with the billions of people throughout time who believe deeply and may have conjured a God, or the history of time itself, which we know to have been borne from an amalgamation of so many scientific processes. Hence it is definitely not out of the question to believe in ALL OF YOU, throughout centuries, believein so deeply in a God He would actually be borne exactly as you envision.

P.S. Humans were created by a sperm and an egg combining together in a womb. That is the real logic. No offense, but... seriously, that's how we're all on this Earth.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by KarlG]

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie
i had biology class all through high school,and i learned all about evolution
single cell organisms, plant life , animal life and yes the dinosaurs. we learned about how all the different systems work in many forms of life.
and you know that the teachers couldnt tell me how all the single cell life forms decided how they were gonna be a fish,tree,flower, blade of grass, dog ,cat ,snake, and you know if we want to jump on the way back machine, even the dinos. they couldnt tell me how all the right elements came togather to make air, water, gasses, sand, drit, rocks and the list can go on and on.
you know all the big bangers that think all that is came about by a couple of atoms smashing togather, and what it produced just kinda happ hazzardly came togather over billions of years and made all that we can see ,feel, smell, and taste,here on earth or in the universe. i just cant understand why they cant see there was a design to it all.

...

so if you want to keep on using the big banger logic, not open your eyes and see what is as plain as day,that life the earth, the universe and im sure things we cant see are far to complex to have just happ hazzardly happened. i will pray for you, just like i pray for others here that seem to be fighting the truth.

Why not let it just be random?

Why must it have "a design"?

I think that's the beauty of life, really, that everything is random. It would be really painful to go to lengths to attribute everything "to design" - and really, that is what many, NOT ALL, Christians do.

"I thank God that I made it through to the finals. You were watching over me."

"I thank God I'm cured of tuberculosis. You love me so much."

"I thank God I'm eating pudding, and not ice cream, today. You influenced my decision."

A bit too extreme, I know... but to me, that's exactly what it sounds. Everyday, everyone goes "I thank God" and "I thank God", but really, EVEN IF he were to exist, why would he bother curing one single fry like you and leave thousands elsewhere to die? It's forcing a structured intelligent control over things that are uncontrollable...

... and really, that is what religion is about. ALL religion that worships higher beings in physical forms.

Because for you, life is random. Too random for you to make sense of it all. You need to know, to FEEL, that someone is up there, guiding you, watching you, loving you, protecting you etc. etc. It's like you left your parents to become independent... but in essence, you're still hoping for that parental figure to guide you.

Science is random. You mentioned the HADRON collider, which tried to recreate the Big Bang, which so far hasn't succeeded. Why? Perhaps they haven't found the right mixture of components yet to recreate the explosion. Why is Earth "in the Goldilocks Zone", with the right proportion of oxygen, nitrogen, water and heat? Because it is. Of all the lucky planets in our solar system, we just happen to have gotten the right distance from the sun TRILLIONS OF YEARS AGO (which is a long time for ANY probability to happen).

Now I presume you don't believe in aliens, since God only created humans in the Bible. But I believe in their existence. They are out there. And some of them, they got lucky too. The amount of time is long enough for ANYTHING to happen. How did time come about? How did singularity come about? Well, more research. More science.

You don't have to pray for me. I am not afraid of death. I am not afraid of going to your so-called Heaven or Hell. As long as I have lived my life well, I have nothing to fear from anything elsewhere. Even if I DO have something to fear - well, by all means, BRING IT ON and let's see who comes out on tops.

Don't pray for me. No one should pray for anyone else. You believe in God, that's fine. Pray that He continues to watch over you and keeps you, one in a billion Christians, safe.

reply to post by KarlG


With all respect.

I think you're really limiting what could be happening in the universe. Just because you don't know a "person" that could conceptualize the universe doens't mean that it's not possible.

Was it this thread or another that supposed God to be an 11th dimensional entity?

I know how humans are created on an individual basis biologically, so don't start. I have experience.

You are starting from a place of real bias. Nobody is telling you that you MUST subscribe to the beliefs of a Christian God. Just relax and imagine more possibilities. I'm not limited to the words written by man in the Bible and, in the same way, please don't dismiss all Christians to only believing that way as well.

Originally posted by KarlG

---Science is random. You mentioned the HADRON collider, which tried to recreate the Big Bang, which so far hasn't succeeded. Why? Perhaps they haven't found the right mixture of components yet to recreate the explosion. Why is Earth "in the Goldilocks Zone", with the right proportion of oxygen, nitrogen, water and heat? Because it is. Of all the lucky planets in our solar system, we just happen to have gotten the right distance from the sun TRILLIONS OF YEARS AGO (which is a long time for ANY probability to happen).

Now I presume you don't believe in aliens, since God only created humans in the Bible. But I believe in their existence. They are out there. And some of them, they got lucky too. The amount of time is long enough for ANYTHING to happen. How did time come about? How did singularity come about? Well, more research. More science.

You don't have to pray for me. I am not afraid of death. I am not afraid of going to your so-called Heaven or Hell. As long as I have lived my life well, I have nothing to fear from anything elsewhere. Even if I DO have something to fear - well, by all means, BRING IT ON and let's see who comes out on tops.---

From what I see in the racial unconscious (after my shaman journey where I made it to the higher plane and got hooked up), our sentience is ALL about 'intelligent design' by the aliens. When the 'gods' walked among us, as genesis says, it was the little Roswell 'greys' who were trying to find a way to keep their little souls in bodies so they could keep them working, while they figured out why the little dears wouldn't properly reincarnate into their little grey bodies. The species was facing extinction, it had gotten so bad.

And Earth was adapted and terraformed by those aliens we called the elves, who fixed this world up so they could have a nice vacation world. (And they aren't pleased with what a mess it is right now!) In fact they won the royal 'contest' for vacation worlds in that round. The elves brought a lot of the truly beautiful and charming things like birds, flowers and butterflies to this world, and it was they who sent that pesky asteroid into the planet to be rid of all those uncontrollable dinos, especially the big mean and dangerous ones (like the T-Rex), who didn't know that they shouldn't be able kill an elf. Illusions don't work that well on reptilian brains.

And you are right. No one has anything to fear when it comes to death, other than if you hurt a lot of people during this life. Then their spirits wait outside death's door, and when you come thru, they all latch on to your now naked spirit and share the pain of what you did to them. If you have a lot of them and you hurt them badly or killed them, it can take some time and hurt quite a lot---my remembrance is that is kinda like being skinned alive and dropped into boiling oil over and over again (spent too many early lives as a mercenary!). Then on to your next life you go, hopefully with an rather unexplainable but very strong sense that it is in your best interests to be kinder to people.

And really, if they recreated the big bang, wouldn't we have a huge universe now exploding in the middle of our world??? Yipes! *lol*

But of course, since the NWO needs to enslave 80% (at the very least) by the year 2012, (whole story there too) and those who profess to be religious believers count as enslaved, it isn't any wonder that they brainwash their 'followers' to be hyper reactive to anyone who isn't also under the NWO's control. And what fun the NWO bunch has, too, pitting one of their fictious religion's believers against another of them. All the western religions are their creation, as well as the Masons, the satanic cults, and any other organization that tries to enslave and control the mind and make humans feel guilty if they are angry and willing to fight for their rights.

Anyway, that is my two cents worth.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by DragonriderGal]

reply to post by stereovoyaged


Hi,
I am relatively new here but this thread caught my eye. I would just like to say that it is historical fact that Yeshua Jesus rose from the dead. Check out 1Corinthians chapter 15 the whole chapter is excellant. It is also historical fact that the Apostle Paul exsisted and the other Apostles as well. Check out the writings of Josephus.
2ndly as far as Jesus walking through walls, its called folding time and space. There is a book I would like to recommend by an Astrophysicist whose name is Dr. Hugh Ross and it is called the Thumbprint of G-d. You can most likely find it on Amazon.com. Too many people are so willing to throw the baby out with the bath water because things that need to be taken by faith are only thought through with the head and mind. It says in 1Corinthians that G-d choose what is foolish in mans eyes to confound the wise. Just some ponderings, and musings.

I just want to say I'm LOVING how everyone is respectful of each other and putting in their two cents worth without being condescending and rude (most of us, anyway).

It's brilliant and fantastic that we're sharing so many ideas about things that we haven't even begun to discover the tip of the iceberg yet, religion, science, etc.

Let's keep it up! I'm loving ATS.

reply to post by DragonriderGal


EVERY point in your post is fantastically articulated. I'm not writing off the existence of A God, but I just want everyone to consider the possibility that God was from another planet or created out of the combined subconscious energies of the millions of Christians throughout time who believed deeply.

Jesus may have existed, we'll never know. After all, it's not as if the Bible was cross-referenced with OTHER books - it's one of the oldest, and back in those days, there weren't many cross-references available. It's like having THE ONLY history book in those days - whether or not fact is fiction or fiction is fact or fact was misconstrued, we'll never really know. If you say Jesus really did exist, I'm going to say, "Ok, but I'll take those words with a pinch of salt. You're gonna have to show me proof OUTSIDE of the Bible for me to say, 'Hey, now, he was in SUBSTANTIAL EXISTENCE', rather than just a normal person who may not have done the things the Bible claimed."

A little misanthropic and off-topic here, but humans have been known to lie. That's why we're all on ATS. What makes you so sure what's written in the Bible are ALL true?

reply to post by KarlG


Thanks for the acknowledgment, KarlG.

What I see as 'god' for us humans is the overarching sentience of our collective/racial unconscious. It is comprised of all of our higher selves and has humanity's best interests at heart, of course. It is the 'being' guiding events that have shaped humanity with the end goal of reaching enlightenment both spiritual AND physical.

And there are lots of cross references from history. There are roman and greek writings which survive (and Jesus isn't mentioned in any of them), although much was lost when the library in alexandria was destroyed.

And of course, I see the bible as a book written specifically with the control of humanity (especially western civilization) in mind. A good slave doesn't formulate revolution, and get into stuff and in general make things difficult for it's owner by resisting being abused and trying to escape and such.

So one of the primary focuses of the bible is to make humans feel guilty and ashamed if they use anger or act disobedient or what not. Spinning, spinning. You know, that 'turn the other cheek or your anger will take you to hell' thing. It was never about making 'sense'; it was always about manipulating humans into being controllable thru their fear of death and other spiritual unknowns.

Believe me, the writers of the bible don't worry about going to hell. They know perfectly well it doesn't exist, so they can do what they want while all the manipulated humans let them, thinking that if they try to protect themselves, they are sinning and will go to hell. *rolls eyes* Boy what a scam, and look how well it works, eh?

In fact, from what I see, any religion that has that kind of a disempowering message for it's followers was created for that very purpose. Just think how much easier it is for a dictator to rule a subdued and anti-violent population?? It is every tyrant's dream, eh?






[edit on 29-5-2009 by DragonriderGal]

[edit on 29-5-2009 by DragonriderGal]

Originally posted by LambLion58
reply to post by stereovoyaged

 

Hi,
I am relatively new here but this thread caught my eye. I would just like to say that it is historical fact that Yeshua Jesus rose from the dead. Check out 1Corinthians chapter 15 the whole chapter is excellant. It is also historical fact that the Apostle Paul exsisted and the other Apostles as well. Check out the writings of Josephus.
2ndly as far as Jesus walking through walls, its called folding time and space. There is a book I would like to recommend by an Astrophysicist whose name is Dr. Hugh Ross and it is called the Thumbprint of G-d. You can most likely find it on Amazon.com. Too many people are so willing to throw the baby out with the bath water because things that need to be taken by faith are only thought through with the head and mind. It says in 1Corinthians that G-d choose what is foolish in mans eyes to confound the wise. Just some ponderings, and musings.

Oh believe me, the NWO bunch have gotten lots of milage out of that "Oh, you just dont' have enough FAITH" thing. Can't explain it? Oh, you are too limited and don't have enough faith! Doesn't make any sense? Oh, you just can't see 'god's' bigger picture because YOU don't have enough faith... Oh yah. So if you just replace the word 'faith' with 'gullibility' you can see what is really being said.

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
reply to post by KarlG

 

And of course, I see the bible as a book written specifically with the control of humanity (especially western civilization) in mind. A good slave doesn't formulate revolution, and get into stuff and in general make things difficult for it's owner by resisting being abused and trying to escape and such.

So one of the primary focuses of the bible is to make humans feel guilty and ashamed if they use anger or act disobedient or what not. Spinning, spinning. You know, that 'turn the other cheek or your anger will take you to hell' thing. It was never about making 'sense'; it was always about manipulating humans into being controllable thru their fear of death and other spiritual unknowns.

Believe me, the writers of the bible don't worry about going to hell. They know perfectly well it doesn't exist, so they can do what they want while all the manipulated humans let them, thinking that if they try to protect themselves, they are sinning and will go to hell. *rolls eyes* Boy what a scam, and look how well it works, eh?

In fact, from what I see, any religion that has that kind of a disempowering message for it's followers was created for that very purpose. Just think how much easier it is for a dictator to rule a subdued and anti-violent population?? It is every tyrant's dream, eh?


[edit on 29-5-2009 by DragonriderGal]

[edit on 29-5-2009 by DragonriderGal]

I absolutely think so.

What we're seeing here are people being submissive BECAUSE of FEAR: Fear of one thing: Dying.

They fear dying, and going to someplace 'horrible'. They fear dying, and losing all their memories, and going to someplace that they will be tortured and never see their loved ones again... loss, in other words.

So to kill two birds with one stone, so to speak, enslavement meets fear of dying. To go to Heaven, great place with God, you have to do good things on Earth, not be gay, believe in God with all your heart, to be judged by St. Peter or God.

So this makes people believe deeply in God. They hate gay people. They want to "save them" (read this other post on ATS called 'Gay Rights'). They do good deeds - which I guess cannot be a complaint, but Buddhism teaches that too, and Buddhism doesn't believe in ONE higher power judging everything; rather, karma will eventually get back to you and give you what you deserve - which is really common sense... after all, you want to feel happy about yourself IN THIS LIFE. You want to make people happy. You don't want to go to jail, so you don't kill anybody.

In that sense Christianity is just telling everyone what they already knew and how to behave. All the other things in the Bible were merely events written by people in ancient days who had no understanding of how the world works and about mitosis and meiosis and human birth or evolution.

BUT... to reconcile that, I would say there is NOW a Heaven. Because of the collective belief in a Heaven, like you said, DragonriderGal, another realm was torn apart, probably, to create a space for the people who believe in them, as does a Hell, too. That's how people who die "experience going through a tunnel of white light, seeing Grandma at the end"... their souls are transcending the astral realm to go to the place they created.

If the person who died died in fear, suicide, death row, lethal injection, etc... They will go to Hell because they FEARED hell. They feared hell before they died, and naturally their soul will just transcend to the place they last thought of before they died. They know what they did, after all.

And I think out of all the arguments trying to reconcile the two concepts, this one makes the most sense.

I do. I am Christian. I look into quantum physics and 11th dimensional things a lot, and the way I see things, they both fill a lot of holes in each other. I have a very strong belief in God based on a lot of things I've run into in those subjects. If I had more time and patience, I'd make a list of links for you and attempt to explain everything, but I don't.

But to answer your question; yes, I do sit and think about it, and I really don't find anything about it silly or ridiculous.

The only thing I find ridiculous is that people who haven't studied the sources of peoples religions (like the Bible for mine, since I'm Christian) yet they can take little pieces of it and act like they proved it to all be fake and made up.

For me, in Christianity, there are things I've found that I can't explain to somebody who has a closed mind and is confident that religion is false. I think the supernatural things that convince people their religion is right, and defy physics and common explanation, is a human condition that each religion using its set tools and paths brings out in a human being.

To me, somebody who is into Christianity, Judaism, Muslims, those who believe in astral projection, Satanism, and many other religions and beliefs are all finding different paths to activate that same condition. I don't think any of their religions are ridiculous. I believe they all find what they were looking for and attribute it to the source of where they got it.

My personal belief is that God created existence on all levels, in the physical and in the conscious realms. I believe he created existence as a whole, and included in that is all laws of physic and matter.

The creation story in Genesis, says God created it in days. This you can say could never happen in that short amount of time, but before God created the heavens and Earth and the Sun in particular, there was nothing to give that 24 hour period a reference.

The only argument I've heard against this, is that when Moses wrote Genesis, he had already wrote Exodus and used the term days for how long the Jews roamed around in the desert, so he know clearly what he was saying when he said days, and so he meant 24 hour periods.

The problem with this is that people use common sense to get that idea, while not using common sense that the Bible was written for people of limited understanding and in order for it to all be grasped and understood, it had to be delivered in a way they could understand. Moses was not there at creation, whoever originally created this story (Call it Moses, call it the Babylonians, I don't care) logically had to have received the story from God at some point. And God wouldn't expect those people to understand physics of what he created and the astronomically giant time span he made it in. It was simplified for understanding.

Anyway, I could go on far longer than the 4000 character maximum about this stuff, but you get my point: I've thought about it, and science, logic, common sense and an open mind are all important tools and I do try to use them to the best of my ability.

Great post, thank you for making it.
Task

reply to post by KarlG

Yes, if you work within the currently known and used concepts of spirituality, your understanding of the situation does make a lot of sense, KarlG.

And from what I see in the racial/collective unconscious, it is definitely fear of the unknowns around dying that the NWO bunch use so successfully to manipulate/enslave us. But seeing more of a metalevel in the spirit realm itself via my connection to the racial/collective unconscious puts a whole different light on things for me.

I see that the NWO works very hard to keep us spiritually unaware, because not only can we not see what they are up to, but also if we all knew we reincarnate and that people get their just rewards right after they die, (if they manage to avoid them during that lifetime), there would be a whole lot less people willing to swallow, hook-line-and-sinker, the whole bible 'fiction' or religion in general, and any potential for human enslavement via religion would end. They would be completely undone.

I doubt anyone would feel even the slightest need to take someone else's 'spiritual' advice on things like how to get to heaven/avoid hell, because they could see, very clearly for themselves that such places don't exist. Sure maybe there are some places in the spirit realm now where such believers hang out for a while but I sincerely doubt that they stay there. It gets really boring. The growth opportunities and really interesting experiences are available only in the flesh (to say nothing of chocolate cake and sex, of course!), so back we all come.

But oh yes, the NWO has had lots of practice (and the most success) spinning humanity with religion, best self enslaving tool ever...

Unfortunately, the eastern religions also require giving up anger and all the emotions that would make the humans more unpredictable and less controllable, plus the twist that you have to give up your 'self' to boot. The devote ones in eastern religions are still very much counted as enslaved humans.

Those religions were mostly created by the greys (and then spun by the NWO). They are a much gentler people, who's spirits usually end up in asian bodies. It therefore seems softer and kinder, and not being a self feels quite right to them, with their hive like mind. And getting to the highly touted 'nirvana' state is actually accessing the grey's 'bliss' state. Takes a huge amount of work for a human to do that; but if you like heroin highs, it might be worth it. That is why opiates are so popular in the far east, eh?

I do think most of us civilized humans have had enough lives where we weren't very nice and hence have developed a 'knowingness' that acting kindly is the better choice. Doesn't take too many trips thru the boiling oil with your skin stripped off to learn that lesson! And yes, the tunnel of white light is the access portal to the spirit realm. If you have ever been human, there is always a piece of your spirit out there, since there is no time there.

So that piece of those who miss you will be waiting for you as you cross over. The people who care will also be waiting for those who have to go thru the 'hell' experience too. I just think most people who come back from that experience, don't hang long enough to get thru the painful part. They just rip themselves back into their bodies, if that is the course they and their higher selves decided on. Can't say as I blame them! But it really is going 'through' hell, versus living an eternity there, from what I can see. And it isn't really hell; just a time when the pain you dealt others is shared back by those who suffered or died at your hand. Suicide--I think that is a bit of a dressing down by your higher self, not all that pleasant either.


[edit on 1-6-2009 by DragonriderGal]

OP,
I know exactly where you are coming from with this.

However, I chose in my life to take the other angle.

To test the limits of the self, to see if it is possible to find God, to seek, to become a master of myself, master over impulses, animal instincts, over lusts and cravings.

To get to the bottom line of all things, to spend countless hours in meditation to find if there really is anything within. To sit in caves fasting to put myself in the woods as a survivalist on the brink of death with no food for weeks.

You know what I found????? I touched the plane where it is possible to heal the blind, to walk on water, to manipulate reality in an instant. Beyond my imagination I've touched this plane with witnesses around me seeing this and saying things like "Holy Sh** or WTF???"

Granted, it's difficult to stay on that plane and requires an intense amount of self control and disconnecting from societies' ways (i.e. junk food, tv, gossip, judgment, labels, 40-60 hour work week) But it is there for those who want to experience it for themselves. Something that was alot easier to do centuries ago when we did have this over-stimuli effect we do now.

I am never the same since then. Red pill ala matrix, one foot in the physical realm the other in the spiritual.

Perhaps if you looked at the mother gooses fairy tales, even the biblical one's, allegorically ten things would change.

Meditation, self inquiry, scripture reading, and trying for an OBE are all keys for you to see for yourself. If you do, you'll regret this post.

www.ejop.org...

Man made by God,

"Genetics, Genesis"


and they a woman made from his rib,

"Cloning and DNA"

tempted by a talking snake,

"The snake the spiral and DNA",

Plus think bloodlines,



[edit on 103030p://bTuesday2009 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by stereovoyaged
reply to post by WickettheRabbit

 

Well at least your not one of those people that believe that fossils were put in the ground by "the devil". I cannot even begin to go on about how dangerous thinking like that is

How many christians do you believe really think that now days?

ALL....not some, not chosen ALL of the animals on Earth pair up and go in this boat and live for 40 days and 40 nights while the whole planet is flooded, then a few ppl and the pairs of animal repopulate the planet?? Really???

Noah's Cosmic Ark: Preserving DNA on the Moon


www.space.com...

Noah's Cosmic Ark: Preserving DNA on the Moon
By Michael Schirber
Staff Writer
posted: 13 September, 2004
7:00 a.m. ET


The complexity of life took billions of years to push and stretch and reshape the biological niche that is Earth. It would seem prudent - if one had the means - to save some portion of the blueprints of this majesty, so that the process would not have to start over from scratch in the event of a global cataclysm.

Morbid, for sure, yet still prudent. But where to put this valuable backup so that it is both safe and handy? And what form should it take?

Last week the head of Europe's lunar missions said a DNA library might belong on the Moon.

"It would act as a mini Noah's Ark for repopulating the Earth after a catastrophe," explained Bernard Foing, chief scientist with the European Space Agency, in a telephone interview with SPACE.com. "It would be a second chance."

"It would act as a mini Noah's Ark for repopulating the Earth after a catastrophe," explained Bernard Foing, chief scientist

Notice he is a scientist?

Chief at that.

You really think this is the first time around?

The Alliance to Rescue Civilization (ARC) advocates a "lunar sanctuary" to preserve Earth's whole record in case the planet is destroyed.

www.space.com...

DNA banks of this sort are already being set up on Earth. One of them, called the Frozen Ark, is cataloguing species on the verge of extinction. "If you can save the DNA, it still exists for future generations of research," said Bill Holt from the Zoological Society of London, who sits on the Frozen Ark steering committee.

'Frozen Ark' to save animal DNA

By Julianna Kettlewell
BBC News Online science staff



Animals are disappearing from our planet at an alarming rate
A tissue bank that will store genetic material from thousands of endangered animals has been set up in the UK.
The Frozen Ark, as it is called, will preserve animal "life codes" even after their species have become extinct.

This will allow future generations of scientists to understand long lost creatures, and may also help with the conservation programmes of tomorrow.

The project is supported by the Natural History Museum, the Zoological Society of London and Nottingham University.

Sixth mass extinction?

news.bbc.co.uk...

"I think Noah would be proud of this project"

Sir Crispin Tickell, project patron







[edit on 103030p://bTuesday2009 by Stormdancer777]

. A dude walks on water, heals sick, turns water to wine, comes back from the dead, etc....

That ones easy,

Use your imagination.

[edit on 103030p://bTuesday2009 by Stormdancer777]

I would just like to say that it is historical fact that Yeshua Jesus rose from the dead.

Please explain to me how this is a fact??

[edit on 2-6-2009 by stereovoyaged]