I mean this quite seriously

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
The THEORY of Abiogenesis DOES sound completely ridiculous! It SOUNDS ridiculous but it is based off of OBSERVABLE EXPERIMENTATION.

Taking it all in at once sounds UNBELIEVABLE BUT BUT BUT if you look at each SMALL LITTLE PIECE of it and see how they work (which believe me is really hard for a layman like me) you will start to get the bigger picture. Some of the theories that humans have come up with are genius! Me personally I like the aspect of how bubbles act as a cell wall.

I mean it is REALLY hard to understand some of it. I am quoting something that is supposed to be easily accessible to people but it really IS hard to understand here read this.

"The first organisms were self-replicating iron-rich clays which fixed carbon dioxide into oxalic and other dicarboxylic acids. This system of replicating clays and their metabolic phenotype then evolved into the sulfide rich region of the hotspring acquiring the ability to fix nitrogen. Finally phosphate was incorporated into the evolving system which allowed the synthesis of nucleotides and phospholipids. If biosynthesis recapitulates biopoesis, then the synthesis of amino acids preceded the synthesis of the purine and pyrimidine bases. Furthermore the polymerization of the amino acid thioesters into polypeptides preceded the directed polymerization of amino acid esters by polynucleotides."

Sauced from en.wikipedia.org...

When I read that it is basically like me attempting to translate Smart People language. I am completely and utterly lost.

I guess what I am really trying to say is it is like a guessing game. Scientists are throwing out guesses. Well it COULD be this. See these things always do this every time. So MAYBE it could lead to this. Since we KNOW these do this lets try it with this.

Creationists are saying Well it IS this. Why are you trying to recreate it? You will fail. God made it. You can't do that. That is pointless.

What happens when scientists can actually make abiogenesis happen in a lab? What happens when we show all these little things working together make something bigger and better?

At least TRY and find out what it is. If you believe that a God created it it is NOT a reason for mankind to give up and not do it. Maybe we can even do it better? Maybe there were some chemicals not present on the Earth during life's creation that we can throw in the mix and make life even BETTER!

Anyone who quotes Wikipedia as any credible source fails. Sorry, sometimes just or fun I go in and edit wrong/funny things that never get fixed...........

Originally posted by stereovoyaged

So for the record, I do believe we evolved, its proven, its a scientific fact, how we started life to begin with is still up in the air for me. At least science is TRYING to prove their theories, not just saying, here this book is absolute truth, but we have no way to confirm our stories true, provide any evidience to back up what we are saying, OH and we also wont' hear of any arguments to prove otherwise. AND even if you do prove what we are saying to be wrong, we will deny it or just say the devil makes it appear that way to lead man down the wrong path to hellfire and brimstone.

That's the issue that alot of people have with Religion, it does infact offer you proof. In quite a few places in the Bible it asks you to ask God if it is the truth or not, to which God will reply that it is. This to many people is enough proof for them.

This issue is when people expect God to jump though hoops for them by demanding miracles be performed for them. The Bible also has plenty of stories about people who where infact shown miracles but refused to believe in them. It was only those who had the Faith in the firstplace that believed.

All the questions you are asking have already been answered, however you are asking the wrong people. Why not ask the person who is supposed to have really Authored the Bible? Don't you think that God would have all the answers if he is infact Omniscient?

reply to post by balrathamir


In my mind, if there is a "God", its not the Abrahamic one of the bible. Its not a God who is self centered, spitefull, jealous, a saddist and using his powers for his own personal amusment or experiment.

In my world if there is a God, it is not so much a single being, more so maybe a complete conciousness of the universe. Very much like the "Hunab Ku" (which I have tattoo'd on my wrist ) I also like to think if there is a single God being, he is accepting of his creations no matter what we do, just like real parents, unconditional love. Not eternal punishment for sins.

Just to let everyone know, I posted that Science of God thread I mentioned in a post earlier here. If you wanted to see it you can see it here.

Clicky

[edit on 21-5-2009 by DaMod]

What you want the truth....you cant handle the truth....We are seed from an alien race, accept this and it explains alot of histories mysteries...

[edit on 21-5-2009 by TooRisky]

For me this is simple...Just Ask YOURSELF....

WHY are world elite worshiping Lucifer????

Shouldn't you be asking what they are doing in Bohemian Grove performing cremation of care rituals? How about the masonic rituals?? all their secret codes, handshakes, symbols and rituals? The sickest part is it is right in front of your face..But your blind and can't see it...

What about Albert Pike? What about Alester Crowley? what about Levin?

They put their talismans, symbols and rituals in your movies, music, products and tv..everyday...to make fun of how stupid you are...

NO!!! Please don't ask silly questions about the most powerful people in the world...who are running every facet of your life and what they are doing???

Just ask us silly Christians why we are so stupid to believe in Jesus...

Sorry to tell you but Lucifer is real..The fallen Angels are real..Demons are real....and most of all JESUS is real...I won't get in a debate...You believe or you don't...Nothing to argue about..It's your life..and your soul..and your damnation. I strongly urge people not to speak blasphemy against your creator..

TRUTH IS STRANGER THEN FICTION!
Welcome to Generation Revelation!

The generation that sees the birth of Israel (1948) will not pass until all is fulfilled..We are that generation! So as the New World Order in crouches on your life and your freedom...know that the beast (the UN) is being set up for the Antichrist..that he may hold the power over all..

2 Thessalonians

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


[edit on 21-5-2009 by Wideawake08]

please delete.

[edit on 21-5-2009 by TurkeyBurgers]

What if the bible was a teaching tool intended for teaching good moral character and not ment to be taken literally?

Isaac Newton believed that the universe was a master clock that created time itself, and the clockmaker had since "died." That is interesting don't you think?

You know what would have made a great 11th commandment? "Keep thy religion and thy opinions on religion to thyself."

man, if I only had a time machine.....

God are real, yes God proof to me. Because I ask him to proof me. It did happened. I was shocked. Trust me God are real! God open my eyes to see clear everything are happening right now. Please respect God with love and honor him with fear. I hate people talk bad about Jesus or God. It made me sad. do u see criss angel he did made water drink turn to beers on tv why it hard to believe if Jesus made water into the wine? Yes I believe Jesus are son of God He was sent by God to save us all! Jesus was Adam. He made mistake in first life as Adam. so he make up for it in 2nd life as Jesus to save us all. please read holy bibles you will find alot answers. Read carefully there are hidden message in bible. I already found them. If Jesus do wonder things because he are from heaven. He are not human being like us. He are godlike human being due to 2nd life. that s why He came back alive from dead. Godlike human being are life forever that are mention in the bible. Nobody come down from heaven but only Jesus. Yes Jesus will come back again. many of people will not believe. BUT it will happen so millions people and different nations will weeps when see him come back. I see a lot of evidence God, Jesus, and Satan, demons, yes they are real. They are not from this world they are all from heaven.. Yes Satan and demons are kicked out of heavens. Satan and demons are still here!! their goal is take over this world. open ur eyes and ears! but for me 10 time for my eyes open and my ears are broken. But still I can see everything clear. use common sense! go research.

God says." my thoughts are not your thoughts, my ways are not your ways."
i cant remember chapter and verse. but this speaks volumes to me.

i find it hard to believe, that people can look at every thing there is in the universe or here on earth and not know that it was all designed. to many things have to work just the right way in order for it to all stay togather.

i mean look at the universe, the big bangers says that a couple of atoms smashed togather and sent matter all over the place. and then all that matter started to clump up and make stars and planets, some mostly gases, some mostly dust and rocks, then they started to cool and became what they are now, and maybe on some of these planets, there was a bunch of amino acids, and protens that had been cooking all this time.
and one day some of them merged and made the frist single cell life form and from then on life just started to move foward.

come on, life forms are to complex just to have happened. just look at lets say a eye, to many parts have to work in a certain way in order to see. and how did those single cells know that they would need a eye,or heart ,lungs ,liver arms, legs and far to many systems in just one form of life,let alone all the other forms of life here on earth.

for me there is only one way that this could have happened. and that is GOD made it all.

reply to post by hounddoghowlie


Or maybe it did happen that way but was predesigned to happen that way.

How simple yet complex would such an action have been.

reply to post by stereovoyaged


I'd agree with you... But Fact really is stranger than fiction IMO.

I find life to be so extraordinarily insane that I would have no trouble believing those stories, whether they happened or not.

People don't realize how we are teetering so close on the edge of chaos everyday. And yet at the same time we are also living in a world where life is miraculously sustainable.

In my opinion, it is surprising, in this extremely chaotic world - and it is chaotic - that an asteroid has not already reduced our planet to dust. Biological mutations generally have negative implications for the human race, not positive. Examples: cancer, aids, and so on and so on. That's not counting other diseases that could've and should've wiped us out by now.

Another thing that is amazing to me is the sun and the moon appearing to be the same size from our earthly perspective, which allows the solar/ lunar eclipse to occur. Coincidence or not?

So to my logical mind, I see how insane is is that life is sustainable in this chaotic universe, and to me it makes no sense logically why life should still be existing.

All it takes is a shifting of your perspective to view life differently. A good example I have noticed of shifting perspective is when someone purchases a new automobile. I always hear people say, "before I bought this car I never used to see it anywhere. But now that I own it, it seems like everyone on the road is driving one!" Does this mean that many people decided to purchase this automobile at the same time as said person? Perhaps. But it's more likely that they are noticing the same model of vehicle around because they are more aware of it and perhaps consciously seeking it out elsewhere.

Try shifting your perspective around for a week. You may be shocked by the things you begin to notice that you've never noticed before.

Originally posted by stereovoyaged
Just saying people, look at this with an objective mind and be more rational.

ABSOLUTELY BRAVO!

Everything I wanted to say, you said. I probably got more to add, but it's late.

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie
come on, life forms are to complex just to have happened. just look at lets say a eye, to many parts have to work in a certain way in order to see. and how did those single cells know that they would need a eye,or heart ,lungs ,liver arms, legs and far to many systems in just one form of life,let alone all the other forms of life here on earth.

for me there is only one way that this could have happened. and that is GOD made it all.

Read up on biology.

It's been BILLIONS of YEARS. Time is the factor that makes everything happen. It is the basis of all miracles, of all things beautiful and wonderful. it is PRECISELY because life is so complex that God cannot have created one. No matter how powerful He is, it is not realistic to say He created the entire universe and all the other planets and all the other things BEYOND there.

Think about it. Back in the ancient times, 65 million years ago, when dinosaurs ruled the Earth. There were no humans. this concept of "God" wasn't even in existence. So you say a God created dinosaurs when this idea of God wasn't even around?

It is PRECISELY because of human consciousness that gives "God" meaning. There is no way anything was "created" because the complexity of organisms cannot just have been made out of the blue. Time, evolution, science, were all factors. However, I DO NOT deny that there is some form of otherworldly power now due to the MASSIVE COLLECTIVE BELIEF OF GOD. A massive collective belief, my theory posits, will give rise to the induced existence of the entity you all believe in.

Meaning there could indeed be a spirit in the astral realm with GREAT powers called "God" because the human minds all over civilization pooled together to create it. HUMANS CREATED GOD, not vice versa.

Creation just isn't true.

reply to post by KarlG


Do you believe the collective thought of humans created a God-type figure? Why would it be hard to believe for you then that God-type entity could create humans?

I don't get the logic.

Originally posted by KarlG
[Read up on biology.


"Think about it. Back in the ancient times, 65 million years ago, when dinosaurs ruled the Earth. There were no humans. this concept of "God" wasn't even in existence. So you say a God created dinosaurs when this idea of God wasn't even around? "


i had biology class all through high school,and i learned all about evolution
single cell organisms, plant life , animal life and yes the dinosaurs. we learned about how all the different systems work in many forms of life.
and you know that the teachers couldnt tell me how all the single cell life forms decided how they were gonna be a fish,tree,flower, blade of grass, dog ,cat ,snake, and you know if we want to jump on the way back machine, even the dinos. they couldnt tell me how all the right elements came togather to make air, water, gasses, sand, drit, rocks and the list can go on and on.
you know all the big bangers that think all that is came about by a couple of atoms smashing togather, and what it produced just kinda happ hazzardly came togather over billions of years and made all that we can see ,feel, smell, and taste,here on earth or in the universe. i just cant understand why they cant see there was a design to it all.

just two more points and i will stop, well maybe three. frist i'm sure you have heard about the heerdon collider. where they are tring to smash atoms togather,and reproduce the big bang. well i have not heard any news, about if they have been able to duplicate it yet. wheres all matter thats suppose to have come from it. second if im not mistaken, there are a lot of scientists that think, that dna is a program just like the ones used for your computer. i'll have to try and find sources for this but i do think i read it in one of the science magazines. question is who programed us,or did it just happ hazzardly happen. i dont think so, that would be like a bunch of steel, plastic, silicon coming togather and there you go a desk top. no some one has to tell it what to do, i think this is the same for dna and everything else that is. i beleive that God made it all.
thrid when you say that God wasnt even around 65 million years ago. there are many bible scholars that think that the earth has gone through at least three what they call earth ages, that to i'll have to find source for
2 Peter Chapter 3 Verse 8
"with the lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years is like one day."
this says to me that time is nothing to God. it could take as long as he wants it to, or could happen as fast as he wants it to. i dont think God has told us every thing that has taken place.

so if you want to keep on using the big banger logic, not open your eyes and see what is as plain as day,that life the earth, the universe and im sure things we cant see are far to complex to have just happ hazzardly happened. i will pray for you, just like i pray for others here that seem to be fighting the truth.

you know that recorded histroy shows us that man has not always been the sharpist tool in the shed.

As per the above post, made me think. If God existed, why would he create dinosaurs in the first place, he would have known in advance they would be a horrible failure??

I doubt a smart God would create such creatures only to have them destroyed. But then again, do theist believe dino's lived the same time as man?? Please, weigh in on your beliefs regarding this.

reply to post by stereovoyaged


If you go by the Intelligent Design/Hands Off Theory, dinosaurs were a very long biological success story that unfortunately got wiped out by events that were no fault of their own. Too bad for them. Good for us. It's not in the Bible, but I'm cool with that.

In the movie "War Games", the character Stephen Falken said bees would take over past us. I guess that's not as likely as robots. Or zombies.

reply to post by WickettheRabbit


So what do you think of dinosaurs vs. Garden of eden, if god created man and animal all at once, dinosaurs should have been there too then?

reply to post by stereovoyaged


I was referring to more of a God creates the World as a petri-dish>Let's the chips fall as they may>observes and records the results kinda situation.

I think this would be much more plausable than an everything gets made at once scenario only because of fossil evidence.