I mean this quite seriously

reply to post by stereovoyaged


Both sides of my family are catholic with a few other religions in there, but mainly catholic. My dad didn't push it on us nor was he a die hard follower. My mom was of course born into a catholic family and HAD to go to church and do all the little things Catholics like to do. As she got older, she questioned the religion itself, hated the way priests treat their own people and was disgusted what she went through in Catholic school. She decided to let me and my brother choice our own path. My brother was Catholic for a little while, even had ambitions to be a priest at one point, but after a while he began to question things, got struck for it and threatened with being burnt in hell for daring to question the Lord.

My mom took him out of Catholic school at his request and put him in public school. In the years he developed his own ideas and beliefs. Me, I never chose a path, had my own beliefs, and even to this day look at all the religions out there and see what each has to see. The foundations of any major religion is with good intentions, but I can't help but notice how very cultish many religions are. Most of the propoganda to keep people in the faiths have made the original messeges become forgotten and confused. Looking at history of Christianity, yes it was a brutal past. But it's not as though many Christians have that same attitude now. In fact, they are very sickened by it and can't believe any real Christian could do such things.

Christians can be irritating when they are trying to convert you and try to convince you that you are on the wrong path, but many of them aren't even that way and practice their religion in peace. Anyone devoted to their chosen path, truely devoted are usually focused on the true meaning, not all the other things that have put a mark on their religion. I'm not talking about the ones who run up and down quoting the bible, or the ones condemning everyone to hell, they aren't true followers of their religion. Any true follower is very nice and have lots of respect for other faiths and never ever scare people with hell. It's people like this, is why I can't say that christianity, islam, etc should all die. Some actually do practice how it is meant to be.

I have always questioned the stories such as the ones posted, and I've always thought that there is some ring of truth to some of them. But like all myths and legends, which I believe most to have even some truth to it, get changed over time to where you don't even know what the real story is. I think that this is where many go wrong.

if anyone would bring up a child, and replace the bible with all fairy tales. Teach the child that the giant in jack and the bean stalk is the god of greed, that the three bears are the center of all evil,that you can pray to the itsy-bitsy spider to make it rain, etc....
would that child grow up and have the same unmovable beliefs if almost every other kid was brought up on the same set of rules and beliefs?

Originally posted by stereovoyaged

3. A dude walks on water, heals sick, turns water to wine, comes back from the dead, etc....

I consider myself in every respect quite rational, yet I have no trouble believing the Gospel accounts of Jesus' acts. And considering the resurrection of Christ...that is THE primary article of faith in Christianity. Even Paul said that without the resurrection the faith of the Christian is pointless.

Oh, and I don't shy away from believing the resurrection was a real, literal, bodily rising from the dead. It means and effects a lot beyond just a reanimation of a physical body, but that is what it means at rock bottom.

Originally posted by Boogley
Catholics are not Christian.

yes, Catholics are Christians.

I've never met a Christian in my life that followed the pope

Catholics don't follow the pope ... they follow Christ ... but every church has a leader to run the church and the pope is the Catholic leader.

and I'm in the Bible belt.

I'm not surprised to hear that.

strict (or "Independent") Christians believe ...

Yes .. and ya' gotta stop listening to the rubbish that the fundies spew about the catholics. The bunk they puke out is ignorant and I fully believe that they get their educations about Catholics from Jack Chick tracts.

It is unfathomable to me how someone could believe in a sky wizard that watches everything you do knows the future past and present. but allows one of his greatest angels to run amok on his creations. you would think a omnipotent god would have known it would have turned out that way and never created that angel.

The whole thing is just very very sad and fills me with sorrow that my fellow humans do this to each other for profit and control of the mind. I never get to deep into these God topics i usually 1 post then leave because i have learned it is pointless to even try to educate people on there ignorance to the reality we live in.

Originally posted by Bringer
It is unfathomable to me how someone could believe in a sky wizard that watches everything you do knows the future past and present. but allows one of his greatest angels to run amok on his creations. you would think a omnipotent god would have known it would have turned out that way and never created that angel.

Actually, if you take that principle one step further, one would have to call into question that, if man was made in God's own image, who then is imperfect? God? or Man? Seeing as how we ARE, and need this salvation, why didn't he just do it right in the first place?


Another twist on religion (and my own personal belief) is that no matter WHAT the religion, religion itself was created NOT for the purpose of putting the mind at ease for an ending that may simply BE, an ending. No, I would theorize that powerful men long long ago realized that the resources of the general man, the working class, the slaves were and would always be far greater than those in power. Now, how do you control a group of people that large? There's only one way-through fear. These men were smart though, they had an absolute cognizance that any man was not even AFRAID of death, as they would gladly face it for a concept, or a piece of land, or a woman. They had to instill fear by means of an unseen entity one so POWERFUL, that not only could it positively or negatively affect their lives on Earth, but for eternity.

Instill that fear into the minds of the average man and what do you have? You have Governments that swear by it, you have countries that will terrorize others in the name of it, you have leaders who amass wealth because of it, and you have a controlled population who will LISTEN TO YOU due to it.



AB1

Originally posted by alphabetaone
if man was made in God's own image,

Made in God's spiritual image ... immortal ... that kind of thing.
At least, that's how it was explained to me and it sounded alright.
(alright to me anyways)

reply to post by FlyersFan


Exactly, the immortal spiritual image....again, the question remains, why screw it up on us then?



AB1

Originally posted by stereovoyaged
Without belittling anyone’s religion, do you ever just sit back and think about all you believe in. Can't you see sometimes how it just seems.......silly. I mean, some mother goose stories are saner. And I don't mean this again as an insult, just a call for Christians to take a deep look at what they believe logically. For instance:

oh, here we go again, its always christianity isnt it? islam is just fine? ignorance and the anti-christian agenda in our culture is to blame.

1. Man made by God, and they a woman made from his rib, tempted by a talking snake, eats a piece of fruit and condemns the world to sin?? So man hears voices and is call skitsophranic, man hears voices and calls its God and he is a prophet?

not a scientific guide to the origin of the universe, no contemporary would have understood. this communication was designed for humans of the period. it was a very successful message, as we are still aware of it many thousands of years later.

2. ALL....not some, not chosen ALL of the animals on Earth pair up and go in this boat and live for 40 days and 40 nights while the whole planet is flooded, then a few ppl and the pairs of animal repopulate the planet?? Really???

that was a localised event, recorded by other cultures as well. the word 'world' and 'planet' cannot be confused. this is a semantics issue that you are confused with. has your world ever changed? did that have anything to do with the planet we all live on?

3. A dude walks on water, heals sick, turns water to wine, comes back from the dead, etc....

the messiah was prophesied in the old testament, the new testament was an account of his arrival and the new covenant. thats all. you are not required to believe. heaven isnt for everyone.

I can go on with more examples but we all know them, so no need to do so. People believe this so greatly and all without one single iota of proof. In the "bible days" god would talk to people, or show miracles etc, but every since people started questioning him, seems like those things have disappeared. I don’t know about you, but I have yet to see one parted sea in my 26 years of life, you know few years ago, God could have done Asia a solid and saved a quarter million ppl from being wiped off the face of the earth in a Tsunami.

Just saying people, look at this with an objective mind and be more rational.

you are also not required to understand gods motivations, and god does not require your approval.

the machinations of our universe were set in play a long time ago, god has little else to do with the natural chaos of existence here.

we are here to live the best life we can.

but by all means, please use the club of ignorance to bash christianity some more.

reply to post by DohBama


You see, a response like this, is exactly what turns a civilized thread into a anti-"almost anything" flame war.

Why is that? Because a person has such a limited scope and inability to see how content is delivered by means of something called CONTEXT, and if they did, they would realize that the OP made no mention of ANYONE being at fault for ANYTHING....

YOUR response is exactly what creates negativity in threads to begin with.....learn to read FFS



AB1

Ahhh Religion.... the best 'After-Life' Insurance Policy that money can buy!

IRM

that was a localised event, recorded by other cultures as well. the word 'world' and 'planet' cannot be confused. this is a semantics issue that you are confused with. has your world ever changed? did that have anything to do with the planet we all live on?

from the bible:

For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall die

I'm pretty sure EARTH cannot be taken out of context or argued with semantics

That's what I'm saying ........talk about taking something literally, you win the award for literalism.

I myself found all of this very fairy-tail-ish when I was young and put it on the same levels as santa claus and the easter bunny.

But ........now as I walk this planet in spiritual enlightenment, aware of the omni-presence of God, aware that I am a soul having a human experience, aware that I am no the body, and aware that matter and fate can manipulated to a certain degree ....it makes everything so simple and profound at the same time.

I'm free, like a kid again, in awe just by seeing a tree with all of its leaves, or how it seems that atoms seem to sparkle on a blade of grass that glistens in the sun.

Religion is garbage, but if you can chisel through it all, you'll find some eternal truths that lead you to direct experience of transcendent realities.

When the mind thinks, you are aware of it. When the mind isn't thinking, who is there to be aware of it???

Bible = symbolism, philosophy, allegory, perspectives, history, poetry, opinions, and truth. Keep these multiple definitions in mind before making a grand generalization.

but by all means, please use the club of ignorance to bash christianity some more.

Ignorance??? How my friend have I been Ignorant, if anything I am quite the opposite. I KNOW all the stories, I KNOW the bible. I have read it and made an EDUCATED decision after reading that. You should try the that with a dictionary, under "I" because your understanding of some words is incorrect.

I am very ignorant however to the creation of this planet as I was not there, thus, I do not claim to know how it ws created. To do so without any knowledge or proof to back it up....now thats IGNORANCE.

The Bible tells Christians to examine what they believe and I think that many do.

Now that the OP has gone on to say why Christianity is silly, which has been done countless times on these boards, I vote that they go on to explain why another belief system is silly.

Preferably their own.

Edit to add: The things that the Bible describes only sound silly when one doesn't have a belief that God Almighty can do anything he wants--which is often the view that people have of God when they go to attack the Bible. God gets put in a box and he must do what puny man says he can do, and only that.

[edit on 5/19/2009 by octotom]

Originally posted by stereovoyaged
Without belittling anyone’s religion, do you ever just sit back and think about all you believe in. Can't you see sometimes how it just seems.......silly.

I am 100% Atheist and I am completely annoyed with this constant drumbeat.. We will never get ANYWHERE "convincing" people when we start off INSULTING them.

Without belittling anyone’s religion

really? Isn't that EXACTLY what you are doing?

Can't you see sometimes how it just seems.......silly.

Sound like an insult to me.. "your beliefs are silly"


Let me ask you oh great one who doesn't offend...
If I asked you to really think about your beliefs (atheism is a belief) and then come to my own conclusion that they are "silly" would you not take that a "belittling" you?

Please stop the facades you guys are putting up. Stop with the disclaimers.. you ARE belittling a belief, you are mocking it, ridiculing it... Please stop pretending you aren't, you are as see through a saran wrap.

Putting a disclaimer ahead of an insult doesn't exempt you from being the ass in the conversation, it puts you front and center and you've already lost the argument. It's like Simon on American Idol.. "I'm not being rude..." "but you look like a chicken with an eating disorder.."

Just say what you want to say and be honest. Ugg....

The things that the Bible describes only sound silly when one doesn't have a belief that God Almighty can do anything he wants--which is often the view that people have of God when they go to attack the Bible. God gets put in a box and he must do what puny man says he can do, and only that.

My problem with the whole God is the perfect master of everything, is that , if he is God and so god like, why create "evil", why create the devil, why create a forbidden fruit, if he is God than he knew the outcome before he did it.

If he did it on purpose he is kind of a saddist. He wanted us to fail, he wanted to have competition, he wanted conflict and thats messed up.

reply to post by gormly


See....your missing the point, I am not trying to offend. I am merely stating the point because I know ppl like my father who believes what he believes strictly because thats what he was told his whole life to believe.

If you or anyone is offended by me questioning then I appologize. BUT I stand firm on what I said , the belief that someone can live underwater in the belly of a whale for day is silly, beyond silly. And is also a very dangerous mindset to have. I read a thread someone had saying to put up cross's to protect yourself from things.....yeah...some mugger puts a gun to your face, see how quickly that wooden cross will splinter and you die.

Its when these beliefs get applied to societ and affect my life that I am offended.

This will probally also be my last religion based thread I will ever start as everyone is way to Goddamn touchy.

[edit on 19-5-2009 by stereovoyaged]

reply to post by stereovoyaged

My problem with the whole God is the perfect master of everything, is that , if he is God and so god like, why create "evil", why create the devil, why create a forbidden fruit, if he is God than he knew the outcome before he did it.

If he did it on purpose he is kind of a saddist. He wanted us to fail, he wanted to have competition, he wanted conflict and thats messed up.

God didn't wany man to "fail". God created man to have a relationship with him. God created the forbidden fruit, and gave man the ability to partake in it, because God wanted man to choose him willingly. God most certainly could have created robots but there is no joy in having people serve you with no choice. Doesn't it feel much better when someone willingly comes and does nice for you compared to them being forced to? The Devil wasn't created as the Devil either. He became the Devil once he sinned.

God didn't created evil. Evil came to be as a result of the fall.

reply to post by stereovoyaged

the belief that someone can live underwater in the belly of a whale for day is silly, beyond silly

Jonah most likely died in the whale. But, even if he lived, what is keeping God from sustaining him?

Also, it's not that people are touchy that you're bringing this up. It's the fact that Christianity is the only religion that is ever brought up and said to be nonsense. Every religion has it's "nonsensicals".

By the way, I'm still waiting for you to point out the silliness of other faiths outside Christendom. [Preferably the oddities in your belief system.]