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Where are all my Fellow Libertarians At?

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posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 12:28 PM
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The Libertarian Party is making very slow progress in gaining seats in local and state elections( especially here in Illinois).

For those, like me, who believe in absolute freedom, why aren't they getting our people into office?

The Republicans and Democrats have only one agenda: keeping themselves in power!!

All others come secondary.

With our rights being eaten away at every available excuse, I can't see why more people aren't getting the 'party of freedom' into office .

Go Lib's!!!




posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 02:44 PM
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Hmm because they have some kooky ideas thats why. Not to mention it is a two party system, like it or not. What would be nice is a good solid green party and and a fiscal conservative party. Right now both groups are imbedded in the existing two-party structure. If somehow the parties could be broken up into their component parts, some of the power in Washington would be bled away because of internal conflicts.

Variable



posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 03:57 PM
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come look at the communist or socialist party some day....



posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 04:13 PM
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Right here, buddy.

I have vboted Libertarian in just about every election Ive ever voted in on, because Libertarians are about the only party I can see any redeemable qualities in. Even though Im more indepenadant.

I dont find them kooky or wierd. being the nations third large4st party, Im surprised they arent gaining strength.

This sint a two party system, they simply want you to think a two party system.

It will be a cold day in hell before i tolerate the presence of commies and socialists in my govornment. capitalists and bankers will fall on thier own without the evil comminist or socialist ideals.

Communism and socialism are evil because they work against natural law and human nature. Anything opposed to nature is evil.



posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 04:27 PM
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Where are all my Fellow Libertarians At?



Right here

I am even the head of the party in my town, and might run for office next election


We do have a lot of kooky ideas like freedom, responsabilty for your self, not interfering in other countries affairs, getting the government off of both labor and businesses backs, an end to the so-called drug war, etc.



posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Communism and socialism are evil because they work against natural law and human nature. Anything opposed to nature is evil.


This is fundamentally untrue.

Let's list a few things that are against nature:

- Your car
- Modern Medicine
- Birth control
- The Space Program
- Airplanes
- Homosexuality
- Drugs

To name few. Should you even be voting libertarian if you think homosexuality or drugs is evil?



posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 05:14 PM
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Hey KJ hows my favorite closet Libertarian doing?


I think he means just against human nature, I think you would agree that communisiam does not work for JUST that reason. Its against human nature to strive if you dont have to. Why work your ass of if you will not get ANY reward and the bozo next to you does nothing, shows up drunk half the time, and misses the other half and makes the SAME that you do?


The things you listed might not be natural, really some are but that beside the point, but do not go agianst human nature.



posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 05:23 PM
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Neutralist or not, lots of my views tend to be alongisde Liberitarian values. I guess you can call me a Liberitarian Independent... or a confused neutralist who is a bit of both.


Good luck, Amuk, with your campaign! I think it's great that you are making an effort to become a part of the government.


And YES Skadi, you're right. This ISNT a bipolar political system. Just because the majority of the money flows towards the Republicans or the Democrats doesnt automatically dictate the idea that the US is run under a two party system. This is primarily why we have the right to vote for whoever the hell we want.

Even if it's Bush or Kerry. I know, I know, I wish I could say that it isn't so... but it is...



posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by KrazyJethro

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Communism and socialism are evil because they work against natural law and human nature. Anything opposed to nature is evil.


This is fundamentally untrue.

Let's list a few things that are against nature:

- Your car
- Modern Medicine
- Birth control
- The Space Program
- Airplanes
- Homosexuality
- Drugs

To name few. Should you even be voting libertarian if you think homosexuality or drugs is evil?


Wrong.

Cars, space program, ect do not violate the laws of nature.

The laws of nature are simple: survive, evolve, advance, or go extinct.

Cars, spaceships, ect, are all products of natural law. In toherwords, humans devloping the means of thier own survival. Space exploration is the desire to expand our species, to make it smarter and better capable of survival. Cars are a way for us to travel greater distances in search of resources we need to survive.

they are as natural as the behive, beaver hut spider web. Technology is the tool spiecies homosapiens uses to interact with its world and survive.

Homosexuality is in my opinion, deviant ffrom nature, but not unatural. Mutations and problems develop in all spiecies of animals, those unfavorable ones do not get passed into the next egneration. Just liek sterility. Homosexuals cannot reproduce themselves with one another, thus, any genes they have lost to future generations.

All in accordance with natural law.



posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 05:24 PM
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The Anti-federalist party should be revived. Fierce loathing of concentration of power -- that's a platform we should all support!



posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by _alien
The Anti-federalist party should be revived. Fierce loathing of concentration of power -- that's a platform we should all support!



That IS the Libertarian partys ideal.

A government starved into submission once again


Look at this......

www.lp.org...

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by Amuk]



posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Wrong.

Cars, space program, ect do not violate the laws of nature.

The laws of nature are simple: survive, evolve, advance, or go extinct.

Cars, spaceships, ect, are all products of natural law. In toherwords, humans devloping the means of thier own survival. Space exploration is the desire to expand our species, to make it smarter and better capable of survival. Cars are a way for us to travel greater distances in search of resources we need to survive.


I believe what KJ meant is how these vehicles are fueled. If this is correct, then I agree with him that fossil fuels are not the way to go in terms of transportation. When we kick the bucket on that one, a lot of people are going to be happier and it'll be the start of a great civilization.



they are as natural as the behive, beaver hut spider web. Technology is the tool spiecies homosapiens uses to interact with its world and survive.

Homosexuality is in my opinion, deviant ffrom nature, but not unatural. Mutations and problems develop in all spiecies of animals, those unfavorable ones do not get passed into the next egneration. Just liek sterility. Homosexuals cannot reproduce themselves with one another, thus, any genes they have lost to future generations.

All in accordance with natural law.


I also agree that homosexuality is not unnatural. It happens all the time in the animal kingdom, and it doesn't get much more natural than that. It is unnatural to deprive yourself of your own sexual intuitions, even if it means that you are a guy who wants to make out with another guy or a girl who wants to make out with another girl.



posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 05:35 PM
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Although I am not fond of labels, I would also be libertarian. I don't go along with all their ideas, but they fit my feeling more than most. I tend to be anti-big-government, esp. at the federal level.
_____________
Drugs and modern medicine are not quite against nature. Many are derived from naturally-occuring substances and hormones. One of the reason to alter their chemical makeup is to patent the item.
You cannot patent nature.



posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 05:38 PM
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Well, fossil fuels are part of the natural order too, but preventing newer and cleaner fuels from getting devloped is not, because this inhibits progress, evolution, devl;opment, and advancement. it keeps stagnation. Fossil fuels had thier time, just as hay and grass once fueled the animals we used to transport ourselves.

Fossil fuels can be considered homo erectus...one step on the long road to advancement and survival, but one that should be relased soon enough for better more efficent stuff.

And yes, Libertarians are anti federalist, something I believe strongly in. The constitution limits the power of the federal govornment to maintaining a military, foreign relations, levying tarrifs on imports, maintaining the supreme court, and the postal system. Thats it. Everything else they created is illegal according to the original draft of the constitution, and should be treated as such.



posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 07:22 PM
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AMUK said:


A government starved into submission once again


Well heck I like this idea. Problem I have with the libertarian view is that they give TOO much power to the individual. I saw a lib spokesman speaking before congress on the Brady bill. He said that people should have the fundamental right to own any weapon the military uses as long as they can afford it. This is one of those things where basic ideology fly's willy-nilly into the face of the real world. This basic view of the power of the individual has the very real potential of giving an inordinate amount of power to the wealthy and relegating the poor and under-class to servitude.
The world the libertarians seem to believe in is akin to how it was at the founding of the nation, where you had landed gentry with most of the "power." Plantations were the norm. Government as we know it was non-existent.
This may sound utopian but, lets not forget that to have this type of atmosphere required (and has always required), slaves. Whether they were, bought and paid for slaves or indentured slaves, they were "slaves." This philosophy still gives a great deal of power to established wealth. Spartans, Romans, British and the Americans all had this kind of early beginning.

The world doesn't work that way now. You can have all the idealistic views you want but, I think we should live in the present. Much of what is done by the government today is not in the Constitution. Do you think a party that would have as a core belief the abolishment of say, Social Security or Medicare/caid, could ever have any true power? If you do you are deluding yourself.

I think the only hope, the only real hope, any of us have to stop the daily destruction of what freedoms we have now, is to starve the Government of revenue and give power held by the Feds back to the states. Which party is in favor of cutting taxes and giving more power to states?

To those of you who think the US does not have a two party system I think you should watch national elections a bit more closely. Watch a little C-Span next time they have a vote and look at the little Yea or Nay vote counter they have (one lonely socialist hold out ;p). When CNN colors the presidential election map of the United States to show who won the state you should count the number of colors. Let me know if I am wrong here...

Variable



posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 08:11 PM
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This basic view of the power of the individual has the very real potential of giving an inordinate amount of power to the wealthy and relegating the poor and under-class to servitude.



God knows that would never happen with the two parties we have now.........LOL

Look around you what the hell do you think we have now?

And if you would bother to read the princables of the party you would see that we are against slavery, the old fashoned kind or the prettied up kind that BOTH the republicans and the democrats are pushing now.


Lord knows we cant allow the peons to have TOO much freedom they might discover that they can live and live well without sucking onthe government tit, or having there betters telling them what they can read or hear on the radio or TV.

Hell the next thing you know they will want to be able to protect themselves or smoke a joint and this kind of behavior leads to only one thing .......GAY MARRIGE.....LOL


I have a lot less problem with the stoned gay couple next door haveing a machine gun than I have with a swat team blasting there way into my house because I checked the wrong book out of the liberary or failed a piss test



posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 08:15 PM
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Which party is in favor of cutting taxes and giving more power to states?



It damn sure aint the republicans

They have passed more laws empowering the federal government in the last few years than the democrats.

Can you tell me that this adminastration is not the VERY ones TAKING away our freedoms?


By the way the answer to your question is the Libertarian Party



posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 09:48 PM
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Ahh Amuk, you were making sense then went and stopped.


Look around you what the hell do you think we have now?

We do not have the Libertarian view of personal freedom that's what. The rich for one thing have an unbalanced tax burden; I would also argue that social programs have relegated the truly poor to being beholden to no one. You cannot compare the founding fathers slavery to poor people of today. It doesn't pass the smell test.



It damn sure aint the republicans

I disagree, in a previous post I asked for which of the laws in the Patriot Act were the ones taking away my rights. I received no answer.
If you do not believe the Republicans have as part of their platform, lower taxes and more power for the States then I don't know what to say. They do. Bush cut taxes the first year didn't he?

To stay sane and understand US politics we have to take a long view. Nothing major is going to happen in four years, all we can hope for is small changes, picking away at the establishments wall of government, a little at a time.

You still didn't respond to the basis for my argument about the Libertarian view on personal rights. Why not? Certainly you understand that world of the founding fathers is dead and gone? We can click our heels all we want but, we have to live in the present, wishing don't make it so.

Variable



posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 10:45 PM
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As a strict constitutionalist I fully support the libertarian viewpoint, the federal government should have very very little to do with our daily lives, that power was reserved for the individual states. Corrupt politicians and judges have totally screwed up and corrupted the original law of the constitution through "interpretation" thats basically meaningless except at the point of a gun which we have given the government the power to do. That power needs to be curbed or we're all screwed eventally even if you temporarily recieve an advantage under the current skewed system - soon you will see the folly of complacency.

I vote Libertarian in every local and state election, but I cannot as yet throw my vote away to the advantage of the ever present socialist democrats which would give away all of our rights in a frenzy of special interest legislation.



posted on Apr, 28 2004 @ 11:05 PM
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Yep, I agree with all of that Phoenix. It is just that reality is what it is.



I vote Libertarian in every local and state election, but I cannot as yet throw my vote away


So you admit you are throwing away your vote on the state and local elections? I think in some local elections I would vote libertarian over say, a religious right republican. I understand the dilemma, vote your conscious or vote for the least bad candidate...
Sad but, that's it in a nutshell.




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