Cashless society and the Mark

I have read so much of this site. It has made me see a lot of things that I did not see before.

One thing that I am not seeing, though, is the relation between the possible upcoming cashless society and the mark of the beast with the antichrist. I know a lot of you don't believe in the antichrist, but a lot do. A cashless society seems to point to an interpretation of the mark of the beast - you will not be able to buy or sell without this 'number of man', and receiving this number will prevent your soul from entering heaven.

Many say that Revelations has already happened, but there was never the 1000 year rule of the son of man. Others thought that our SSN was the mark, but you could stuill buy and sell without one. And, of course, there are those that think it is all a bunch of bunk. However, a cashless environment would obviously make use of numbers - a different number for each of us - number of a man.

I wish we knew what it all means.

Thoughts?

Yes, it will be called a VISA! Like the credit card you use to pay now! Oh and you need a VISA to travel don't you? VISA is spreading it's wings, and soon, EVERYONE will have stamped on their arm what is called VISA, for security reasons of course. It will make it easy and painless, and if u refuse, u die - cuz you'll be labeled a terrorist. You cannot refuse having ur fingerprints taken when traveling to this country, or else you won't get in. Some things, you just have no choice in!

Why is VISA the mark of the beast you say?

VI is 6 in Roman Numerals. S was 6 in ancient Egypt. A was 6 in Sanskrit. VISA, see, is 666

And note, visa is already in common use, so if you're going to make a creditcard-like stamp on someone's hand, wouldn't it be rational that it will follow up with the name of one of the already established major credit cards? Well that's one possibility anyway

So universally, everyone has a credit card called VISA, which translates into 666 (soon this thing will be stamped on your arm), but individually we all have our separate credit card numbers! There ya go.

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by lilblam]

I don't have any credit cards - haven't had a need for them in over 36 years.

Ah-yes... a return to the idea of the "chip" or credit cards being the mark of the beast. I suppose, lilblam, my American Express will be no good? Let's go to the source shall we? And [the Antichrist] causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save [except] he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Rev 13:16-18 KJV Now... we need to consider the context of this... 1900+ years ago. John's letter to the seven churches detailed his visions for the return of Christ and a bunch of nasty things to come. (I happen to think he's writing about mushroom-induced hallucinations, but that doesn't matter.) If we look at the very first verse of Revelations, it says clearly: "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:" John wrote "shortly come to pass". Putting two factors in context. From John's perspective, "shortly" certainly can not be expected to mean 2,000 years or more. Also, in John's time, it was very common for slave owners to mark their trusted slaves on the forehead or hand as they went to the market to buy goods. The owner's mark authorized the slave to buy items. The description of "The Mark" in Revelation clearly describes everyone getting the same mark, not everyone getting a unique mark. This coincides with what John experienced, all slaves of a single owner getting the same mark. The VISA numbers or chip-implants would all be unique... so I can't see how these qualify under the description of the mark. Whenever you analyze John's Revelation, you need to think in context with what he knew and experienced in his time.

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:" John wrote "shortly come to pass".

Putting two factors in context.

From John's perspective, "shortly" certainly can not be expected to mean 2,000 years or more.

shortly come to pass....is that what god told john?

a day of god could last a millinea or it could last several billions of years....just a blink in gods eye could several thousands of years pass...

if you read the rest of revelations before this part is even written Israel once again becomes a nation and then men are made to take the number of the beast ....so guess what !
REVELATIONS IS HAPPENING NOW!!!!! NOT 1900 YEARS AGO OR 2000 YEARS AGO!!!!
IT IS HAPPENING NOW !!!
AND MANY ARE GOING TO LINE UP FOR THE CHIP LIKE IT WAS THE GREATEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD AND THEN YOU CAN COUNT ON BEING WRITTEN OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE !!!

Originally posted by watcheroftheskies AND MANY ARE GOING TO LINE UP FOR THE CHIP LIKE IT WAS THE GREATEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD

I guessed you missed the part about "The Mark" John describes being all the same mark on everyone (just like owner's marks on their slaves in his time)... where the "chip" is all different if people ever get it.

if everyone gets a chip its all the same....the chip is the same that gos into everyone....its all the same mark....the only difference will be the infomation stored within.....
There is no difference between one chip or another ...hence ....The same mark....

Originally posted by watcheroftheskies the only difference will be the infomation stored within..... There is no difference between one chip or another ...

The chip stores no information, only a unique number used to access the information in a database. But either way, stored information or unique number, that means each chip is indeed unique.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by watcheroftheskies
AND MANY ARE GOING TO LINE UP FOR THE CHIP LIKE IT WAS THE GREATEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD

I guessed you missed the part about "The Mark" John describes being all the same mark on everyone (just like owner's marks on their slaves in his time)... where the "chip" is all different if people ever get it.

So the slaves got to go to hell, because they accepted the Mark, whereas the slave owners got a place reserved in heaven cuz they didn't get the mark? Keyword: EVERYONE.

Also, every mark is different! The molecular structure of every mark is different anyway (and is different on any mark you put on 2 different slaves, even though it looks the same to our eye), so if you want to talk about subtle differences, there ya go. The chip stamped on our hands will look IDENTICAL to every other chip, it will probably say "VISA" on all of them, and the only thing that can tell the chips apart will be a scanner!

The chips are for identification and monetary transaction purposes, we already have them anyway. There's a company that's installing them in people now, it's just not required universally, YET.

The acceptance or rejection of the chip doesn't matter, because if you reject, you starve to death, or otherwise get carried to a detention center as a terrorist (if not just shot on the spot). Those who accept, will be under martial law but allowed to stay alive, as long as they follow all the new "rules" imposed on the citizens.

Remember, it says rich/poor, young/old, ALL will receive the mark. Not just the slaves...

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by lilblam]

Originally posted by lilblam Also, every mark is different!

Did you really read John's words or are you acting on the popularized sensationalized speculation of what his words might mean? ... he that had the mark, or the name of the beast ... ... Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six ... He's referring to what he certainly has known and seen in his time... slave owners marking their slaves with the same mark. The text also does not indicate the mark is the method of buying and selling, but only allows the marked person to buy and sell. Again, the concept reflects what was known to occur with slaves of the era. He's theorizing that the beast will enslave all men and put his unique mark on them. You need to understand the context of his era, to understand what he's relating in his letter. He would not be describing in terms we understand, but in terms he understands.

Originally posted by lilblam

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by watcheroftheskies
AND MANY ARE GOING TO LINE UP FOR THE CHIP LIKE IT WAS THE GREATEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD

I guessed you missed the part about "The Mark" John describes being all the same mark on everyone (just like owner's marks on their slaves in his time)... where the "chip" is all different if people ever get it.

So the slaves got to go to hell, because they accepted the Mark, whereas the slave owners got a place reserved in heaven cuz they didn't get the mark? Keyword: EVERYONE.

Also, every mark is different! The molecular structure of every mark is different anyway (and is different on any mark

Remember, it says rich/poor, young/old, ALL will receive the mark. Not just the slaves...

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by lilblam]

LOL ! well i couldnt agree with you more lilblam !!
The chip that will be implanted will stucturally be no different from one person to the next...so how is this not the same mark !....The mark may very well mean the scar that is left from the implant and if you read revelations the whole slave argument is out the door unless its not written chronologically

He would not be describing in terms we understand, but in terms he understands.

Yes, very true, he would only describe in terms he understands. But did it not say that it's a prophecy for the future, instead of being a description of his present? If I was to make a prophecy of the future NOW, I'd say "One day we might have flying cars" although 100 years from now they wouldn't be called flying cars necessarily. The same thing as 300 years ago someone might say "In the future, a carriage can move without a horse" when he's talking about a car. So isn't it possible that using his own terminology and understanding he's actually describing possible future events? Was this not meant to be a prophecy?

And he did say:

"And [the Antichrist] causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads..."

So it's not just slaves! And you said the chip is all different, when it's all the same chip! In fact the chip might be EXACTLY the same, and somehow wired to read our GENETIC information, which is inherently different, and only by transmitting our genetic information to the central computer does it enable the computer to look things up about us!

Therefore, the chips can be all made absolutely identical, and rely on our individual genetic information to identify us! So it would then be the same mark. I'm just saying that, the chips don't necessarily have to be different in order to operate in this way. Our bodies are unique enough to identify each of us specifically, and the same tool can be used to extract this individual unique information about our bodies, be it fingerprints, genetic information, our eyes, mental (psychic) imprints, whatever!

And I must repeat, he said free and bond! In his time, free people didn't receive a mark, only the BONDED/SLAVES did!


[Edited on 28-4-2004 by lilblam]

i already posted this weeks back.

here is my thread on teh same subject. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now you're speculating on technology you don't understand. There is no electronics that can read genetic information, much less transmit information based on that. My point is that John would have been familiar with slave owners marking their slaves to enable them to act on their behalf in the market and other places. And marks on the hand and/or forehead is exactly how it was done at the time. This is more than a simple coincidence, he's describing exactly how slaves were able to buy and sell in his era... so, it stands to reason he saw the beast-man relationship as a owner-slave relationship, regardless of rich/poor.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Now you're speculating on technology you don't understand. There is no electronics that can read genetic information, much less transmit information based on that.

We can get people's DNA now can't we? Just add 5 years and a chip can do that too! Besides, technology available to the public is AGES behind what the government "plays with". And this isn't even such a terrible forward jump, I'm not talking about time travel or hyperdimentional UFO's here! Just DNA...

The government had retinal scanners in the 70's, and this was UNHEARD of at that time in the general public. The stealth bomber, and other technologies, are usually only revealed decades after their creation to the public ....

We can even do this NOW. Take a DNA sample, save it in the chip that's inside the person, and it's good for life. The chip doesn't have to re-sample your genetics each time someone scans it, ONE sample is good for life. We can take DNA sample now, and it's getting faster/easier and more automated almost daily

My point is that John would have been familiar with slave owners marking their slaves to enable them to act on their behalf in the market and other places. And marks on the hand and/or forehead is exactly how it was done at the time. This is more than a simple coincidence, he's describing exactly how slaves were able to buy and sell in his era... so, it stands to reason he saw the beast-man relationship as a owner-slave relationship, regardless of rich/poor.

Yes this is a good point, I'm not arguing that this was EXACTLY what was done to slaves at the time. But he did mention that the slave owners will get the same mark also. You cannot disregard part of his phrase because that part doesn't make sense, and only look at the part that does seem to make sense.

If I say: "We will have cars that can fly into space, rich and poor will have them".

You can take that and say what I mean is, we have ROCKETS in our time that fly into space, and I'm only talking about what I know from my experience in my time. When clearly, I'm speaking about EVERYONE possessing their private space-traveling vehicles, both rich and poor. The point: You cannot ignore words that you don't think should be part of what I said, because they really ARE part of what I said, and are extremely important to the MEANING of what I said!

So he said rich poor, FREE and SLAVES! So you cannot ignore the word free! He said the word ALL, which means EVERYONE, not just the slaves! If you selectively pick and choose which words you think should be part of what he said, you lose the connotation, the context, and the meaning.

But all this is still guessing, people can see 666 in everything nowadays, from "www" to bill clinton's name. Our best choice is "wait and see", but if we're going to try to guess, I think it would be wise to look at every word, the ENTIRE phrase, instead of just bits and pieces that seem to make sense.

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by lilblam]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Now you're speculating on technology you don't understand. There is no electronics that can read genetic information, much less transmit information based on that.

My point is that John would have been familiar with slave owners marking their slaves to enable them to act on their behalf in the market and other places. And marks on the hand and/or forehead is exactly how it was done at the time. This is more than a simple coincidence, he's describing exactly how slaves were able to buy and sell in his era... so, it stands to reason he saw the beast-man relationship as a owner-slave relationship, regardless of rich/poor.

never the less this does not regard that revelations is a prediction of the future not of what john is seeing ....
How about dragons coming out of the sea ???
or any of the endless enigmatic sights recorded in revelations ???
is he relating things he saw in his era ?
This also disregards the chronolgy of Revelations in relation to the fact of israel once again becoming a nation state.

Besides, technology available to the public is AGES behind what the government "plays with".

Is that based on personal experience or more sensationalized speculation? Obtaining genetic information is a chemical process, not an electronic one. Building a micro-sized lab into a chip, or storing a genetic sample inside a chip, will be infinitely more complex and expensive than simply giving each chip a unique number and recording who gets which chip.

He said the word ALL,

Exactly. Which is why he saw all men accepting the mark as being slaves owned by the beast.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Besides, technology available to the public is AGES behind what the government "plays with".

Is that based on personal experience or more sensationalized speculation?

Well what about military technology that we don't hear of, and then after we hear of it, it turns out that it's been around for like 20-30 years?

Obtaining genetic information is a chemical process, not an electronic one. Building a micro-sized lab into a chip, or storing a genetic sample inside a chip, will be infinitely more complex and expensive than simply giving each chip a unique number and recording who gets which chip.

Fine, they use a number then! This was just speculation. However, all the chips still are called "chip" aren't they? They all have a different number, but they are still the same thing. So why not call them all "mark of the beast", all have different number, but still the same thing, same name?

He said the word ALL,

Exactly. Which is why he saw all men accepting the mark as being slaves owned by the beast.

So are you saying he's taking his knowledge about his time and the PHYSICAL mark that represents a slave, and applying this to a prophecy in which he's actually talking about a psychological mark, where we are "marked by the beast" just by psychologically submitting to some kind of control, by something he calls "the beast"? So he's applying his familiar terminology in a possibly different context? I'm not sure if I'm understanding what you said correctly. However, if I do, then why not have it be an actual PHYSICAL mark that literally is put on everyone? I mean, what if he's NOT just hallucinating, and he's literally being told this information by a higher source? Because if we disregard the "higher source" bit completely, then there is absolutely no reason to even discuss the Bible or its prophecies, since they only MATTER if they were really prophecies, and not just guesses based on hallucinating on 'shrooms. This is what makes this discussion worth anything, the idea that something was involved that can literally manipulate things on our planet and CAUSE the future that it "predicted".

So if we were to have a chip stamped with a number in the near future, and EVERYONE was required to do this, would you say that this would have anything to do with that prophecy at all? Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this chip will only be put there because the Biblical prophecy says it will, as I'm not trying to create a self-fulfilling prophecy.

What I'm saying is, cash is insecure and the records of cash transactions do not exist for the most part. That's how illegal aliens can work in jobs without there being any "tax records" etc of their jobs, because they are paid in cash. To prevent such things and also "terrorists purchasing weapons of mass destruction" without the government being aware of it, this kind of system might be implemented world wide, or at least in US and perhaps other 1st-world nations.

But I think the plausibility of this implementation is not the point of the argument here, the point is whether the guy in the Bible was actually speaking of THIS, or of his own personal experiences.

This is taken from the visa website.

The Name

The process that gave birth to the name "Visa" was far more complex. How do you go about finding a great name? Dee invited his entire staff, from the top managers to the newest additions to the staff, to submit ideas and suggestions. Dee felt that if challenged and inspired, some member of his staff would come up with a brilliant solution. Dee even added a little incentive, very little in fact: a check for $50. The reward, of course, was only symbolic, but Dee felt the check would be a fine memento for the winner to frame and hang on the office wall.

Over the next several months, hundreds of ideas emerged. The suggestions were catalogued and separated into lists, which were then reviewed by a committee Dee established and slowly whittled down. The name "Visa" was proposed early on -- and rejected. People just assumed it was in widespread use and would be impossible to trademark. Still, the name "Visa" was short, graphic, easily recognizable, and it did convey the required traits: mobility, acceptance, and travel.

On every short list Dee's team compiled, the name "Visa" reappeared. Dee's legal team began a quiet search of trademarks to determine if the name had ever been used in the field of financial services. The search produced some startling results. There was, for instance, a Visa car. And Visa pens, Visa golf clubs, and Visa appliances. But nothing significant surfaced in the field of banking and finance.
this comes from
corporate.visa.com...

I agree with some of the ideas on this board and it is interesting conjecture.

VP