"The Insane Brutality of the State of Israel" Atrocities in the Promised Land

reply to post by mmiichael

---

The reason to bring up old information is that there is insufficient new Israeli data they can cloud, misrepresent, curse, or cry about.

So you gotta go back.

Go back far enough, and you can find the walls of Jerico being dropped.

All I got to say is that this thread is great. A number of truly bright ATS'ers have seen through the non-sense that Masonwatcher is pulling. It is frustrating to see these threads on this great forum.

They always go the same way: Post a nasty article from a dubious source, criticize Israel with righteous indignation", say nasty things about "Zionists" in general, and then claim people who disagree with you are pro-Israel zombies.

It's getting boring.

The point is tha Israel is a first world, western, democratic nation with the full support of the UN Europe and America and no one even beleives what is being said. We all find what happens in Rawanda, abhorrent, Sudan and Darfur revolting, Sri Lanka criminal, but why is that when ever we mention the same crimes against humanity we are labelled anti-semitic ?
Why are we able to discuss all these other crimes - but not Israel.

Why is America, a Christian nation over run with Zionist extremists ?

Why is that ?

Why are we not able to discuss the greatest crime against humanity committed since the holocaust ?

Why ? *Snip*

Why is Israel immune from investigation and public scrutiny? *Snip*

*Snip*

Mod Note: WOT Posting Conduct – Please Review Link.

Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 5/19/2009 by semperfortis]

Why is it you think you can make any bald statement and expect people to accept it as unquestioned fact just because you typed it?

Zionists were 20th Century Jews working toward establishing a Jewish state centred on Jerusalem. It exists now and has for 60 years.

2.2% of the US is Jewish. Presumably you actually are referring to some of them when you use the phrase Zionist extremists.

There is a ton of literature that tries to show Jews run the US. There is also a ton of literature showing aliens exist. That the Vatican controls the world. That Freemasons run the world. That a New World Oder is coming into place run by the Bilderbergers or whoever.

It's called conspiracy theory. When its specifically targeted a particular ethnic group it can be called racism.

A lot of ignorant disenfranchised people subscribe to these theories.
It sometimes makes it easier for them to evade responsibility for their personal failures, or those of their chosen religion, ethnic group, or country. It has been refined to a science. It's called scapegoating.

These held beliefs almost invariably fall apart on objective examination.
But if you actually want to believe them you can find plenty of others who laso do and mountains of pseudo-documentation as support.

When people spend an inordinate amount of their time and energies pursuing these beliefs it indicates not so much how valid they are, but more what they choose to accept as truth.


Mike


[edit on 18-5-2009 by mmiichael]

Mearshimer and Walt - "THe Israeli Lobby" is absolutely NOT conspiratorial - not is it a fabrication- it is one of the most damming exposes on the issue ever written and is well accepted at even the highest levels of academia all over the world - clearly you have not read this, despite your literary claims -

*Snip*

here is where we left off with you caliming the ISraelis are the innocents.....

YouTube Link

Oohh look here is some more of your Israelis are just peace loving mythomania...

YouTube Link

*Snip*

[edit on 19-5-2009 by audas]

Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 5/19/2009 by semperfortis]

The personal attacks stop now...

Any further posting that includes "snide" comments about another member, will be removed and the poster possibly warned.

Thank you
Semper

Two lightweight academics with a modest bestseller that is ridiculed by historians now.

Iraq War was not the work of George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Colin Powell, and Condi Rice, as we all thought but of "The Israel Lobby"

Osama bin Laden and Islamist terrorists wanted to punish America for support of Israel who wanted the attack because they were lonely in the Middle East.

And that's just for openers.

So busy pointing the finger at their shadow Israeli government they totally missed the elephant in the room, the suitcases of cash floating around Washington courtesy of the Saudi Lobby buying up ex-presidents (Carter) congressmen, senators, and oh yes - quite a few low paid academic hacks.
Check out Saudi donations in the tens of millions to academic institutions since 9/11.

more here

www.huffingtonpost.com...


I find it increasingly difficult to believe you've read much besides the usual agenda driven pop stuff on the subjects you claim to know about. Embedded links to selected Youtube are not arguments.

What about the long article I linked to? So far your comment was on the single paragraph excerpt provided.


Mike


[edit on 19-5-2009 by mmiichael]

[edit on 19-5-2009 by mmiichael]

---

---

No one denies the reality of Saudi money - no one, however this in no way negates the reality of Mearshimer and Walt - and no it has not been discredited by historians - they would have nothing to do with it - why would they ? Its not an historical document, only academics would have anything relative to say on the matter, and they fully concur with it as does every other non-zionist with a balanced view. So it stands unchallenged by you.

Although it most certainly helps us to see the corrupt nature of Washington and the US in general - that the true perpetrators of the 9/11 continue to go unchecked as power and money control your nefarious establishments - hard not to laugh at this stage. You have almost always backed up my points.....

Once again - you have been thoroughly out done.....anything else ?

Here's how things work in science, history, philosophy, any discipline.

You read one book - it's a revelation that changes your thinking.

You read two or three more books. The first one doesn't seem to have addressed a lot of things and got many wrong. The more you read, the deeper you go, the more you discover the shortcoming and inadequacies of many works. Often you find what you accepted early on in your investigations was more wrong than right.

This happens a lot when you get into a subject, partly because most start with a sensationalized bestseller then only graduate to the real stuff much later. I've been through it a dozen times. I'm embarrassed by a lot of nonsense I thought was true once.

Bertrand Russell once remarked on someone pointing inconsistencies in books he'd written decades apart that he simply believed certain things years ago but had learned they were incorrect after further investigation.

We all have to do that. That's why so many people get divorced, as an example.

I'm reluctant to tear into Walt & M because, 1) this isn't the time and place, and 2) all my typing will result in having to read a reply with the letter Z used repeatedly and some snappily phrased accusations and then more "Aha, I beat you ... you sniveling dog" stuff.

"Israel Lobby" was published in 2007. Written probably in 2005 and before with updating. To put it mildly, it hasn't stood up to serious analysis.

H.G. Wells's "Outline of History" which was considered definitive for decades, and which I read as a kid, is mostly dismissed as one-side, biased, non-inclusive, and just plain bad history.

There are dozens of well-researched books on the subject we are talking about. Ones that have a controversial selling hooks are the ones undiscriminating people end up with. They're usually far from the best, often they're just sensationalistic junk.


Mike

Let me draw your attention here if I may..

ABOUT ATS: Warnings for excessive quoting, and how to quote

Specifically:



Thank you

Semper

Why does anyone assume that Israel is any different than the Muslin countries around them? That is the way in that part of the world, but it strikes me funny that people need to focus on Israel when it is the whole damn region that is all the same way.

Why doesn't anyone care about the Palestinian situation?

The Palestinian's were given territory to create their own country, along with Israel. The Palestinian's could have chosen to live in peace with Israel, and everything would have been fine, but the Palestinians and the Muslim world chose to swear to destroy Israel, and deny them the right to exist. If this wasn't bad enough, they started a fight with Israel, which they lost. When you start a fight and lose, then it is expected that you will lose other things as well. The Palestinians lost their land and their country, and it is their own fault.

No one has any respect for a loser who started a fight, and then continues to fight by the most dastardly of means when ever possible, all the while complaining about being wronged. This is why the non-Muslim world has no sympathy for their cause. This has been gone over many times. The facts have been shown that this is the case.

Only a fool would choose to continue fighting after the have lost when they were wrong to start the fight in the first place.

reply to post by mmiichael

---

Because there's no use by date for atrocities. You of all the people should know that. Didn't the great Simon Wiesenthal said, and I quote:

“If all of us forgot, the same thing might happen again, in 20 or 50 or 100 years,”

“We know that we are not collectively guilty, so how can we accuse any other nation, no matter what some of its people have done, of being collectively guilty?”

“Human rights is the only ideology that deserves to survive,”

“For evil to flourish, it only requires good men to do nothing.”

“What connects two thousand years of genocide? Too much power in too few hands.”

"For me was the Holocaust not only a Jewish tragedy, but also a human tragedy. After the war, when I saw that the Jews were talking only about the tragedy of six million Jews, I sent letters to Jewish organizations asking them to talk also about the millions of others who were persecuted with us together - many of them only because they helped Jews.”

“I know I am not only the bad conscience of the Nazis. I am also the bad conscience of the Jews. Because what I have taken up as my duty was everybody's duty.”

Great man, great quotes! If only there are more men of his calibre.

[edit on 19-5-2009 by A Conscience]

He was an incredible man.

And he spent his entire life tracking down people who had murdered men, women, and children for being what they were - Jews.

And wouldn't he be terror-stricken to know there is an active movement to deny the Holocaust even occurred, political entities that boast as part of their charter their intention to see the destruction of the Jewish state, and polite neo-Nazis using the politically correct anti-Zionist handle (making sure it's noted they have nothing against Jews) to promote the same vicious hatred and find intellectual justification for it.


Mike



[edit on 19-5-2009 by mmiichael]

Well actually yes they were given land....it is called Jordan today....

The Palestinians refugees we see today are Muslins that no Muslin nation wants to help and so they can blame Israel for all their troubles. As example, Egypt was in control of them for 12 years and would not lift a single finger in that time to allow them to become Egyptians or even travel in Egypt. Jordan has never tried to reunite them with the Palestinians that make up Jordan…

So the whole region is to blame….

reply to post by Xtrozero

---

Indeed, the whole region is to blame.

The other Arab nations want nothing to do with these people, other than to send them weapons.

These are apparently the most stupid and easily manipulated people on earth that the other Arabs won't let into their countries.

Do other Arab nations treat them in another way than as some giant suicide bomber? They are a tool to use against Israel and Israel has acted in like fashion in their treatment of them.

So many places over there life is counted in the deaths 1000s, 10,000s or even millions…life is about as cheap as it can ever get.

reply to post by Futree Vous

---

Had you bothered to read exactly what was said, the stated goal of the Arab coalition that attacked Israel in 1948-49, you'd know that their STATED intent was genocide.

Same thing, same identical things was broadcast from Arabic radio stations prior to the 1967 war. Genocide of Israel.

SAME thing in 1973.

And the countless guerrilla attacks that have occurred constantly since the formation of Israel.

Genocide of Israel.

You kind of got it backwards, didn't you?

They no longer teach history past ten years ago?