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The UKIP Conspiracy & Its Immediate Relevance

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posted on May, 18 2009 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by Solomons
But didnt the queen sign ?something? sorry
when labour came into power that would get through that loophole?

You'll find the info you need in the second thread-link of my signature: "The EU Is Illegal By UK Law".




posted on May, 18 2009 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by Cythraul
I must have seen a different definition. Thanks for that. Point still stands though - acknowledgement of the differences that make different ethnicities and cultures so wonderful is not 'racist' in the popular perception of the word. It does not require hatred or supremacy, just an understanding that multiple ethnic identities is better than forcing the world to adhere to one new 'world ethnicity'.


You're welcome.

Unfortunately, what you're talking about there is NOT what the BNP is about.
I think different cultures and traditions etc is wonderful, i truly do.
And i don't want Britain/England to lose it's traditions and not be proud of it's culture.... and just because many people of many races and ethnicities live in one country..... does not somehow mean that that countries heritage and traditions will stop.....although the BNP would have you believe that, it is NOT the case at all.


That is the point of multiculturalism, multi (many) cultures....

The acceptance and tolerance and ability to coexist, for many cultures... NOT the opposite.... which is what the BNP proposes.







Two wrongs don't make a right. Past white on black racism aside, do you agree that the BPA is 'racist' by your definition? How about when non-whites are the dominant ethnic group in the UK. Would a White Police Association be acceptable then, out of interest?


I don't actually.

Look at it this way..... the BNP are a racist/racialist However you want to term it, party...they breed ignorance and intolerance and hatred against non-whites and were set up by ex-national front founder
John Tyndall.




The BPA were set up BECAUSE of racism and racist abuse directed at black and Aasian officers.



The Metropolitan Black Police association then formed following discussions between black staff and the MPS. The association, which formed in September 1994, was launched by the then MPS Commissioner. At the launch the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police said, "I have made it clear where I stand. I see the formation of this Association as the only way forward".


This was as a last resort and because of abuse suffered by black and Asian officers...

NOT because of hatred or ignorance or intolerance.....in fact, exactly the opposite.



And if tables were turned and whites were the minority and suffered abuse and discrimination on the scale that black and Asian officers did.... i would have no trouble setting up a WPA at all.






They shouldn't have to. But the world is fast growing full of people who are geographically disconnected from their ancestral homelands. I'd suggest we'd all be happier where our roots run most deep... but that gets into all kinds of spiritual concepts.


Well then shouldn't we be over in Rome or Scandanavia or something then?
I mean the Brits are as mongrel a nation/people as any?

Unless of course you're a Celt and you somehow were not affected by the years of wars and occupation of Britain?

Seriously mate?

You could "suggest" we'd all be happier......but you don't know that.... you just wish it so "all these bloody foreigners" would be gone.

:shk: :shk:





You love the fact that Britain is becoming less and less unique? I think the fundamental difference of opinion you and I will struggle to overcome is that I don't want to be part of a uniform global community. I want to be part of a community that echoes Britain's rich past, and then the ability to travel elsewhere and experience someone else's rich past. Worldwide multiculturalism will eventually make that impossible. How evil is that?


I love the fact that we are becoming more diverse.
And there is nothing that you can't enjoy or celebrate about Britain's past?

What exactly can't you do, that you'd like to be able to.... just because of multiculturalism?

I don't get your point?





Well I'll make no secrets about my dislike for Islam, but this isn't the place for that. I believe that our growing materialistic tendency is partially being brought about because of a lack of cultural cohesion. You no-longer know your next-door neighbours name, let alone whether they even speak English or not. Multiculturalism requires that everyone be constantly wary, stepping on eggshells to ensure that they don't insult the person in the street. A shared culture means shared values and a shared perception of what kind of speech and practice is acceptable.


And that just about sums it up for me.

So if you had white neighbours, you'd know their name and be best pals with them?

but because they're not white, they probably don't speak English and there is no point in you going round to introduce yourself??

Pathetic mate....

Why the eggshells?

What is it you want to say that you can't because of multiculturalism?


And you know what?

One of my friends nans is 85.....she is Irish...

When she first came to England when she was twenty..... they had signs on pub doors and bording houses for labourers and such....

No blacks
No dogs
no Irish

I think we've come a long way since those days.....i don't want to go back to that sort of mentality.

And you know what...?

The BNP would drag us straight back there.







In short, multiculturalism is - unfortunately - systematically flawed and as the immigrant communities acquire greater confidence to demand that their home cultures be made fully acceptable here, incompatibility issues will become increasingly apparent until consequences arise. Sad but true.
But the most important point of all is that - whether you want multiculturalism or not - it is NOT being promoted by governments for the reasons stated. Rather, there is a sinister agenda behind it and that in itself makes the whole concept worth questioning.



Well that remains to be seen.
So far I've seen no valid reason to be against multiculturalism....none at all.

I for one am glad we live in a diverse and wonderful nation... i would hate to see that change.





[edit on 18/5/09 by blupblup]



posted on May, 18 2009 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by Solomons
 


Nope.
It was our lying and cheating MPs who were purchased by the EU who changed our laws. This is one of the main reasons why the UKIP party wants the UK to pullout of the EU. We never needed them years ago. It's now pretty clear that we will never need them. The EU simply does not benefit the UK at all...



posted on May, 18 2009 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by 44soulslayer
 

"The BNP are a bunch of illiterate thugs. I wouldn't vote for them mainly because I doubt their intelligence, rather than because of their racist views. They are racist, but that's ok... its a free country, they can espouse what they want. Promoting the "repatriation" of ethnic minorities to create a white-only state is racist, and it's ridiculous to state that it's not. Supporters of the BNP would do better to be honest and call themselves a racist/ racialist party.

UKIP on the other hand, make sensible statements that are based on reality. Nigel Farage is a capable leader, who has consistently shown that his party is the party of true nationalism, devoid of any racist undertones.
I respect UKIP."

---------

I shall be voting BNP and I assure you I am not "an illiterate thug".
Nor am I a racist being married to a lady from North Africa.

I am educated with Politcal Science degree and a lifetime of involvement in the Conservative Party. A party that has betrayed its members, its supporters and the country. Along with NuLairs and LibDems, it has conspired to decieve the country concerning the UK's destruction and absorption into the United States of Europe as a collection of provinces of which England will be nine.

UKIP had my support for the last four occasions I could vote (Euro and General elections) but they have proved to be as corrupt as the main parties as well as pretty useless at furthering the 'Out of Europe' agenda.

I no longer have a choice. If we are to see the UK exit the EU then the message has to get to the Tory leadership loud and clear. The only way they will abandon their continued support of the EU (dispite their attempts to portray themselves as sceptical) is to get a shock. I would like to see half a dozen BNP members in Westminster. That would give strength to the true anti-EU Tories and ensure that the current 'soft' leadership would fall. Then I could return to my natural political home.



posted on May, 18 2009 @ 05:08 PM
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Hi Blupblup, I'll address what I deem the most pertinent points, as we seem to have drifted drastically off topic. I've had this debate oh-so-many times and not once has it ever achieved anything. I think that in today's Britain two intelligent people can have fundamentally opposing worldviews, such as ours, that are not reconcilable.


Originally posted by blupblup
and just because many people of many races and ethnicities live in one country..... does not somehow mean that that countries heritage and traditions will stop.....although the BNP would have you believe that, it is NOT the case at all.

It is not, and would not be the newer settlers' fault, and nor would I have got this thinking from the BNP. The BNP have taught me absolutely nothing. Everything I believe was developed whilst I still despised the BNP.


Originally posted by blupblup
That is the point of multiculturalism, multi (many) cultures....

Yes, and it works until the point that one of those cultures refuses to compromise any longer. Islam grows ever-confident and where fundamental aspects of Islamic tradition are incompatible with British tradition, there will be strife.


Originally posted by blupblup
Well then shouldn't we be over in Rome or Scandanavia or something then?
I mean the Brits are as mongrel a nation/people as any?

Unless of course you're a Celt and you somehow were not affected by the years of wars and occupation of Britain?

Actually, genetic studies show that we're not as diverse as some people would have us believe. Besides, it's irrelevant. The indigenous British are the people who inhabited these isles at the point that Britain became a political entity - whichever tribes we consisted of.


Originally posted by blupblup
You could "suggest" we'd all be happier......but you don't know that.... you just wish it so "all these bloody foreigners" would be gone.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I've never said I wish all foreigners were gone, just that in my opinion, the nation was happier, freer and more prosperous when we had common goals and beliefs. That is absolutely NOT to put any kind of blame on immigrants.


Originally posted by blupblup
I love the fact that we are becoming more diverse.
And there is nothing that you can't enjoy or celebrate about Britain's past?

What exactly can't you do, that you'd like to be able to.... just because of multiculturalism?

I don't get your point?

I'd like to be able to express my pride in our heritage, I'd like to be able to criticise religions I find to be abhorrent and detrimental to the human race, I'd like to fly a flag anywhere I choose, walk through any neighbourhood in the country without being made to feel unwelcome because I'm white, I'd like for my children to learn about their ancestors' deeds, unobstructed by cultural sensitivity. Much I still can do, but I'm concerned about the inevitable destination of multiculturalism. Will I even be allowed to have a non-Muslim faith in 50 years? Sure, laugh at my melodrama, but it's a very real possibility that Britain will become an Islamic republic by the end of my lifetime.


Originally posted by blupblup
So if you had white neighbours, you'd know their name and be best pals with them?

but because they're not white, they probably don't speak English and there is no point in you going round to introduce yourself??

Pathetic mate....

That's a severe twisting of my words friend. That is absolutely NOT what I meant at all. On a more general level, through no deliberate acts of racism, society has grown fragmented. I've noticed the increase in wariness even in my lifetime. I'm always as equally friendly to immigrant neighbours and work colleagues as I am to white British ones. I blame the establishment forcing multiculturalism on an overcrowded Britain, rather than in any way holding a grudge against immigrants themselves.


Originally posted by blupblup
I for one am glad we live in a diverse and wonderful nation... i would hate to see that change.

Funny you should say that because many, many Britons would have said the same thing about their "British" Britain... and yet, it did change. Your preferred state of affairs is new. It was not voted for and it is not out of the woods yet. So many people think that multiculturalism is a proven success, but I believe that as it picks up even greater speed there will be unfortunate consequences. The rise in BNP support indicates this.



posted on May, 18 2009 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by Cythraul
 


Interesting... thanks for sharing your views.

I guess what I'm trying to understand is why you think that a person is entitled to be a part of your history and culture merely because they were born in the country and are racially white.

What makes an indigenous white person intrinsically more British than a non-indigenous person?

There are ways of allowing multiracialism while retaining or even strengthening national character. Admittedly, these revolve around limited immigration.

Of course the notion that anyone can be indigenously British is questionable. Does an anglo-saxon have a share heritage with a celt or a scot?

Nationhood and allegiance exist only in the minds of men. They are meaningless to me... I am an individual before I am anything else.



posted on May, 18 2009 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by Cythraul
Hi Blupblup, I'll address what I deem the most pertinent points, as we seem to have drifted drastically off topic. I've had this debate oh-so-many times and not once has it ever achieved anything. I think that in today's Britain two intelligent people can have fundamentally opposing worldviews, such as ours, that are not reconcilable.]


Yeah, I totally agree.
I don't see the point in going round and round either.
And yes....i too have had this debate umpteen times.

But i have actually quite enjoyed it and i respect you for having a civil and interesting discussion with me..... even if if we do totally disagree, we can still be cool with one another.

Cheers mate








Yes, and it works until the point that one of those cultures refuses to compromise any longer. Islam grows ever-confident and where fundamental aspects of Islamic tradition are incompatible with British tradition, there will be strife.]


I do know you have issues with Islam and in particular their spread through Europe and (in your eyes) the Islamification of our nation, but yes, that is another debate.

I'm sure we will have that too







I'd like to be able to express my pride in our heritage, I'd like to be able to criticise religions I find to be abhorrent and detrimental to the human race,


So that would be any and all religions then?

They all breed intolerance and cause divisions.





Will I even be allowed to have a non-Muslim faith in 50 years? Sure, laugh at my melodrama, but it's a very real possibility that Britain will become an Islamic republic by the end of my lifetime.]


I'm not laughing mate, i respect your right to your own views and opinions...
It's just that mine differ.
But i do think that the whole Islamaphobia thing is getting way out of hand at the moment....i mean in general, not in your posts.

But as i said, time will tell.





That's a severe twisting of my words friend. That is absolutely NOT what I meant at all.]


Well, it was very subtle...but that is how i read it man.

If you didn't mean it like that, then i apologize







So many people think that multiculturalism is a proven success, but I believe that as it picks up even greater speed there will be unfortunate consequences. The rise in BNP support indicates this.


I think the rise in BNP support indicates many things... but as we are "winding-down".....I'd rather leave it for another day



Peace my friend



posted on May, 18 2009 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Nationhood and allegiance exist only in the minds of men. They are meaningless to me... I am an individual before I am anything else.



Exactly the way i feel.

I am not a Nationalist, nor do i see myself as primarily English or Bristish.

I am a human being and as you say, an individual, before anything else.




posted on May, 18 2009 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Interesting... thanks for sharing your views.

What makes an indigenous white person intrinsically more British than a non-indigenous person?

Their ancestry
!

See, for me, nationhood does not merely exist in the mind but in the blood. And that is the fundamental, irreconcilable difference in belief between you and I. For me it's related to certain spiritual views of 'a cause bigger than the individual'.

And you're welcome. And likewise, thank you for sharing your views.



Originally posted by blupblup
But i have actually quite enjoyed it and i respect you for having a civil and interesting discussion with me..... even if if we do totally disagree, we can still be cool with one another.

Likewise Blup. As with soulslayer and I, there are many other things that we do agree upon... and of course, we all enjoy a good civil debate
.


Originally posted by blupblup
So that would be any and all religions then?

I personally don't find all religions to be bad - just the Abrahamic ones.


Originally posted by blupblup
I think the rise in BNP support indicates many things... but as we are "winding-down".....I'd rather leave it for another day



Peace my friend

Indeed Blup. Tomorrow I may attempt to steer this thread back on course.



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by Cythraul
Blupblup - I used to DESPISE the BNP. I mean, REALLY despise them. Then one day I both looked up and saw my heritage dying in front of my eyes and looked into the BNP firsthand. I was surprised that this racist party I'd despised all my life was actually interesting in protecting the rich, ancient heritage I hold dear, NOT hating or denigrating anyone of any other race.

As stated, I just don't see the preservation of Britain's indigenous community as racist in any way I'm afraid. It is not because ethnic minorities are unwanted or inherently inferior (what idiot could think such a thing?) but simply because they have their ancestral homelands elsewhere. I've got plenty of black and Asian friends and I value them all. As far as I understand it BNP policy would allow them to stay in Britain, which is fantastic. What I object to is the wholesale colonisation of Britain, culturally, spiritually and ethnically.



You are being fed a line by the BNP, and you are swallowing it up, hook line and sinker. You mentioned your friends, are any of them british by birth??? Ohh to be ALLOWED to stay in the country you were born in, how good of the BNP, they should be so grateful .... pfft
You bang on about our heritage, i wonder just how much you actually know about british heritage. Out of curiousity, what is your eye and hair colour?

[edit on 19-5-2009 by MCoG1980]



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 03:30 AM
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Originally posted by MCoG1980
You are being fed a line by the BNP, and you are swallowing it up, hook line and sinker.

I am? As previously stated, the BNP have taught me nothing I didn't already believe whilst I still despised them.


Originally posted by MCoG1980
You mentioned your friends, are any of them british by birth??? Ohh to be ALLOWED to stay in the country you were born in, how good of the BNP, they should be so grateful

They are. A quick read of BNP literature will indicate that they propose voluntary repatriation for those born elsewhere, not forced. This is as much about fixing the overcrowding problem as it is about preserving indigenous Britain. Besides, you know as well as I that most people born elsewhere, or on British soil to immigrant parents, have a 'right to return' and often dual-citizenship. Why should anyone with dual-citizenship feel presecuted for having one of those citizenships removed? Regardless of all this, I would oppose the ethnic cleansing of Britain, but something needs to be done about the demographic timebomb.


Originally posted by MCoG1980
You bang on about our heritage, i wonder just how much you actually know about british heritage. Out of curiousity, what is your eye and hair colour?

A lot actually. Hair and eye colour? Not really any of your business and neither is it relevant. If you knew anything about British heritage you'd know that Britain's indigenous population consists of light-haired, dark-haired, red-haired, light-eyed and dark-eyed people. Read up on the Basque origins of some Celtic settlers, the Iberian origins of the Megalithics and the Mediterranean origins of the Picts. This goes alongside the fairer appearance of north European invaders.



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 04:45 AM
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reply to post by SKUNK2
 


have to reply to your first line, i found it oh so funny

"lying thieving greedy self serving"
cheered me up no end well said.



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