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Torture Continues at Guantánamo Bay

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posted on May, 16 2009 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by johnnyflip
 


Torture is simply wrong what will it take to make some people realize this. Well maybe when its their turn if we allow our own goverment to do this its only a matter of time before its our turn.




posted on May, 16 2009 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by uncommon-sense
 


So since the Supreme Court ruled that its ok under the term "Enemy Combatants" makes torture ok. I disagree, you are right that we have to live with rulings of the court but it does not in anyway make right...



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 09:07 PM
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reply to post by blc4r4
 


I've said it a bunch of times already but you are right and that is why I made this thread and my other threads relating to torture. It is wrong no matter what way you spin it...



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 10:05 PM
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I would think that any one would tell you what you wanted to hear if you were the one drowning them this has to stop!www.amnestyusa.org...



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by iamjesusphish
reply to post by Blaine91555
 


I am aware that this isn't from the Spanish Gov't. I am not saying they are not dangerous prisoners in any way. I am anti-torture and believe it needs to stop regardless of who says its happening. It is unacceptable. I am always up for a good debate.

[edit on 16-5-2009 by iamjesusphish]


Sorry, I got called away. I'm undecided myself.

I ask myself, Self; if they had a bomb planted in the city I'm in and had a man in custody who knew where it was and I will die if they don't get him to talk, do I care what method they use? Or, ask yourself if it was your children or family members that would be saved.

I'm sorry but if water-boarding with an MD in attendance will save innocent lives, I can't be opposed to that. I'd say not doing it would be the real travesty. Putting a Terrorists comfort above innocent lives seems pretty evil to me somehow. Almost insane in fact.

I'm satisfied that the Red Cross is monitoring Guantanamo and will believe them long before I believe an activist or their site. I've never known an activist who would not lie to win an argument.

I've actually spoken to a Soldier who served there and he said it was nearly all lies. He seemed honest to me. The Democrats were doing what they always do, telling any lie that will help them win. Republicans are no different. I don't care for or belong to either.



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 03:27 AM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


Blaine, I agree with you on that but there is no proof and no instance of any attacks being stopped by waterboarding. If there was it would certainly be released to the public to show that the torture actually was beneficial. I don't believe that the torture helped protect us, the US citizens from any attacks. Its bullsh*t, and further more torture is wrong. If my family was being threatened I would most likely ignore my morals and do what I needed to do to protect my family. What the bush Admin did was execusable.



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 03:44 AM
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reply to post by iamjesusphish
 


Cheney has asked for the memos that show we have benefited from torture to be released and that request has been denied. Because of pending ligation.

whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com...

Now that we know that any evidence gathered through waterboarding or any other harsh interogation techniques can't be used in any trials. What harm can it do know to release them?

Whether his claim is true or not, shouldn't we atleast be able to see them for ourselves and get the other side of the story?


edit to add- If you don't like the source, I can find atleast a dozen more that says the same thing.

Or you can look it up.


[edit on 17-5-2009 by jd140]



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 04:22 AM
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reply to post by jd140
 


The source of the news does not matter. The fact that Dick Chenney who will not get off the tv as of late as some GOP leader makes me believe that any thing the major stockholder of Haliburton says is bs. The man himself makes me question everything not the source of the news. I am neither dem or repub so im not being partisan by any means.



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 04:43 AM
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EDIT: I messed up a long post and deleted it by mistake!

[edit on 17-5-2009 by Chevalerous]



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 04:59 AM
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The Red Cross is not `at` Guantanamo Bay , they have denied access since 2007 for stating openly that the USA has broken the 1st , 3rd and 4th Geneva conventions.

quite simply , There is no intermediate status; nobody in enemy hands can fall outside the law.

the biggest complaint against the USA was the abduction , illegal imprisonment , rape and torture of 3 children released in 2004 , but of which are part of up to 25 children (under 16) illegally held at Guantanamo Bay.



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by Harlequin
 


Thank you for stating that. I looked for awhile last night about the red cross being there and could not find anything more current then the beginning of April in regards to the red cross currently being at gitmo...



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by uncommon-sense
reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


The supreme court made the descision, We must live by their rulings, besides were those people not actively trying to kill people? so we are worse for getting water up their nose? after you are waterboarded you feel fine in less than a minute, when you are hit by a mortar or in an explosion caused by an IED you never feel anything again, or are left with lifelong injuries.


Who gets to say if they were actively trying to kill people or not? And you know how Waterboarding feels do you? Did you know that Al Zarkawi or whatever his name was went through 147 instances of Water boarding in ONE MONTH.

That's atleast 3 times a day minimum.

Does that not seem wrong to you? I apologize, but getting water up your nose, and a simulated drowning are two VERY different things. And how are people who are tortured not left with life long injuries? You dont' consider emotional scaring, PTSD or Anxiety a lifelong injury?

Your argument has no basis what so ever, the simple excuse of "Oh they are terrorists, and this behaviour we are doing MIGHT help save some people from something we may or may not know is happening and these people may or may not be a part of " is NOT good enough, PERIOD.

Going back to the Supreme Court, we all know what good job they do eh? Remember the 2000 Elections, when George was decided as the President because daddy's friends on the Court were told to give it to him?

That says alot about your so called "justice" system now doesn't it. Anybody can bought for any price, which is the problem today.

This war on terror has consistently been used to allow your rights to be stripped away a little more every day, and yet you think it's ok because you feel "safer". Do you really feel safer than you did on Sept 10th? Or do you feel safer because you've been told that the world is safer?

There's a big difference friend. And there is a hell of a big difference between people and humans. People treat each other like animals and behave like animals, human beings understand the concept that we are all the same regardless and deserve the same rights.

American is the one who is suppose to show an example in today's society, they sure are giving the right impression right now aren't they?

~Keeper

Edit For Code.

[edit on 5/17/2009 by tothetenthpower]



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Keeper, beautifully said, since the beginning of this thread you have understood exactly where I stand. Thanks for helping me deny ignorance in this thread...



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by iamjesusphish
 


Not a problem friend, I appreciate your level of tact in this thread, there are time where I thought your responses might have been a little harsh, but they turned out perfecty OK.

It's nice to see some of the newer members are aware of how to manage themselves on these boards.

Back to topic, I don't find it's something very difficult to understand, dont' hurt others...period.

~Keeper



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 05:16 PM
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First: I've been reading ATS for a few months now and I felt it was neccessary for me to register just to post my opinion on this topic. Oh, and hi!


On Topic: I don't understand why some of these posters, especially a few I seen on the first page, are saying "Oh noes! They're terrorsists! They deserve it!" This is completely incorrect and based on biased opinions. Where's the hard evidence that every single person in Gitmo is a terrorist and have done something to merit these tortures? The majority of the prisoners in Gitmo are more than likely not even terrorists or have no ties to terrorist organizations but were put in their based on suspicious claims. I'm not saying that EVERYONE in there is not a terrorist but I feel we're wrongly accusing a lot of people. Other countries do the same thing.

Journalist's release prompts praise from Washington

She was arrested simply because she was ACCUSED of being a spy for the United States. Who's to say we do not do the same things? And that we do those same things only to more extremes because we're America and we're badasses. /sarcasm

I feel the majority of these people in Gitmo are being treated unfairly and inhumanely. Whether they're terrorists or not does not give us the right to torture people. The only way I would deem torture neccessary is if the said torturee is widthholding information that would cause the Earth to implode unto itself ( Hadron Collider anyone?
). Other than that obsurd assumption, torturing another human should never be accepted.

Torturing all these people in Gitmo is not giving us one step forward in the fight for terrorism...if anything it's sending us two steps back and causing more people to be pissed at America.


Besides, doesn't 1/3 of the world hate us as it is? It seems like America has some sort of "hate us" quota we're trying to reach.




Most ships are hijacked without a shot fired. Freed hostages report being treated well.


Somali Pirates Hijack 4 More Ships

How come pirates can treat prisoners better than the world's "leading" nation?



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 08:23 PM
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reply to post by oneal
 


Hey welcome to ats! I'm a very happy my thread caused you to register and join the ats discussion community. Makes me feel that my effort is not wasted at all. Thank you for that.

You are exactly right with everything you said in your post. I got pretty heated over some of the responses I received in this thread, a lot of unneeded personal attacks and other general ignorance. I apologize to anyone I may have upset but I feel so strongly about torture being utterly wrong that I can not tolerate certain statements. I try to be respectful to everyone but respect is a give and receive type thing. Thank you all for making this thread my most successful yet and I will continue to add new information as I find it.

Zero tolerance for torture!
edit to change debate to discussion community, my apologies keeper
-allenton

[edit on 17-5-2009 by iamjesusphish]



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by oneal
 


Welcome to ATS Oneal, I invite you to view one of the threads in my signature for all of your ATS needs, also you can U2U me for anything.

Back to topic, what an insightful post from you my friend, I am sure you will do very well in this community. However we are a discussion board and not a debate community as some would think.

Also the ATS Handbook is a great place to start
.

~Keeper



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Yes keeper thank you for correcting me as I am to relatively new... feel free to u2u me as well oneal!



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by iamjesusphish
 


Then why not release the memos that he has requested?

If he isn't telling the truth then the memos will tell us. I'm not his biggest fan, but it does make me wonder why they will release memos saying that waterboarding doesn't work, but someone calls for memos to be released saying differantley, they are not able to release them for legal reasons.

You may not like hime, but if he is telling the truth then that has to be acknowledged.



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by jd140
 


I agree, the memo's need to be realsed. If we are going to pick ourselves back up we need to hold the persons accountable for their actions...



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