Census GPS-tagging your home's front door

reply to post by wonderworld


Arizona postings maintain that 50 feet between signs maximum, to be legit.
No hunting allowed, should be all that is necessary. If they violate, call the Game and Fish warden, or is it fish and game, in WA?

Had the census worker come to my door, too. It was a somewhat amusing conversation. I bought my house when the only thing in the area were pastures and fields. The street numbering system reflected that with wide spaces between sequential house numbers.

Now all the pastures have been sold and subdivided into residential postage stamp sized plots and the street numbering makes absolutely no sense. The census worker was completely lost and I spent nearly half an hour trying to explain how it worked. She left completely confused and still lost as far as I could tell.

I got to thinking that this could really be an advantage if the gov ever tried to find me...

reply to post by Montana


Good point confusion is the key; I wanted to lie and say "No this isn’t a single family dwelling it’s an insane Asylum with many residents. None speak English. All emigrated from Cambodia."

Since houses don't go anywhere, I fail to see how this is any different than having a postal address, or being on a map.

reply to post by pyrytyes


Funny, It's Fish and Game in Washington. Man those guys pack guns. I had called them a couple times because I was scared of bears. Now I dont fear a black bear I fear Cougars.

The Fish and Game guy told me he carries the gun for poachers and not because of the animals. He has ran across many drunk hunters and fishermen.

The hunters that I see on my property are after a Buck that comes in to my yard to eat. I consider him a pet, or sorts. If SHTF I guess I would eat him though.

reply to post by mdiinican


I'm opposed to more and more of my private information being loaded in to a federal database.

Next they want me to register my ammo. Actually the Constitution doesnt have a privacy clause like I had origially thought.

I guess they can search and seize, as well. There must be a limit on how far they can go. Not many will object sadly.

reply to post by wonderworld


It's Game and Fish in AZ...

In '72 I worked a summer in the mountains near Winthrop. Great places around there. Saw apple orchards surrounded by chicken wire fences 25' high to deter the deer...with deer inside munching on apples. Amazing animals.

The Fish & Game people I met were very friendly to us out-of-staters...didn't seem to mind a bit that we were afield with our sidearms, for snake protection.
Did not ask for license, but did want to inspect (fondle) the weapons. Good people.

post pics of that buck....please?

They are trying to use GPS to make the census more accurate and to verify the workers locations perhaps. My house has been here for 70 years and it can be seen on any mapping software including the bizarre Google Street View in which I can be viewed on my front porch taking a Ben Franklin "air bath".

I'm not worried about the census takers using GPS. If anything it will help them navigate the endless maze of cul-de-sacs that have sprung up since the last census.

reply to post by wonderworld


They wouldn't need to attach anything to your house.

What they would do is come to your front door with a GPS locator stick. They tap in save location and the GPS has now taken your house's coordinates and stored them in a computer.

10 seconds of time and forever in a data bank.

Originally posted by pyrytyes
reply to post by wonderworld

 

It's Game and Fish in AZ...

In '72 I worked a summer in the mountains near Winthrop. Great places around there. Saw apple orchards surrounded by chicken wire fences 25' high to deter the deer...with deer inside munching on apples.

Amazing animals.

The Fish & Game people I met were very friendly to us out-of-staters...didn't seem to mind a bit that we were afield with our sidearms, for snake protection.
Did not ask for license, but did want to inspect (fondle) the weapons. Good people.

post pics of that buck....please?

That's funny. They should probably stick with Wildlife officials. That must have been a site deer inside the fence eating the apples.

My uncle had an apple orchard, ripped out all the trees and stumps and grows grapes. He gets all the free wine he wants.

Some Fish and Game guys will chase you in boats around this area. They must be bored, although ones near my house are friendly.

I havent taken a picture of that buck yet. I have a sugar maple tree in the front yard and he eats the leaves off of it. Now the tree is odd looking but hanging in there. I wanted to get a deer block but havent yet. I think he is a 5 point buck.

I also have a resident moose that walks slowly across the highway. He doesnt appear to be scared of cars.

reply to post by whatukno


I understand the database issue and I'm opposed to it.

I still haven’t figured out why Senator Judd Gregg said he no longer wished to be the Commerce Secretary nominee, that the decision was based in part on serious disagreements with the Obama White House over the 2010 census.

It was said that, Obama's plans for the census process the biggest White House power grab ever.

That part still bothers me and I suspect there is more to it than GPS.

reply to post by jibeho


I agree the Google street view is a bit whacky. I saw my neighbor sitting in his car. I think the picture was taken in 2007?

I read a thread on here yesterday saying the wife caught her husbans car at another womans house and filed for divorce after seeing the Google street view picture.

Doesnt the government have live google? In real time?

OK. Since it is apparent that no one on this thread bothered to read the duplicate, earlier thread (hey, why seek out the truth when you can whip-up a conspiracy?), I'll repeat some of what I posted there:

Spoiler alert... I suggest you brand me a disinfo agent right away.


I ran the Census operations for an area in the Northeast back in the 1990 Census. I had over 1,200 employees in my operations: computer people, clerical people, recruiters, trainers and mostly field people. In 1990 we were introducing the TIGER mapping system for the very first time. That data collection 'map-spotted' every residential structure against all roads and geographic features. It was done by hand in the field. The collected data was then entered into a GIS database.

The maps produced were later used for the actual 'Census-taking'. In the end, there would be extensive demographic data associated with GIS data. This provides the means to do sophisticated demographic analysis. Numerous aganecies --- public and private --- use this information to determine population, cultural, educational, transportation, etc trends. This provides the basis for planning roads, schools, hospitals in the public sector and stores, daycare, service businesses in the private sector.

A major problem we had in 1990 was map-spotting errors in the field. This created issues on the GIS data entry process and was difficult and time-intensive to resolve. Also, the GIS entry had to be done by manually digitizing the field-collected, hand-drawn maps. An error-prone and time-intensive process.

Using GPS field-spotting is --- for me at least --- a no-brainer. It's the same technology surveyors use nowadays. The front door is an arbitrary decision to standardize field data collection. This process drastically reduces field errors and almost entirely eliminates the manual GIS digitizing --- the field collection can just be uploaded to the GIS database. This simplifies the process, eliminates errors and dramatically speeds-up this critical pre-Census process.

The individual census data collected from your home is protected for 72 years. That means, no one has access to your answers to the Census questionaire for that period of time. The data is aggregated to the 'census block' level --- although the published data is only available at the next highest level: census block groups. The number of households in a census block varies by locale. In a city, for example, it correlates to a city block. In a rural area it will be geographically much larger and likely have a smaller number of households. There are over 250,000 block groups so you do the math to see how 'specific' the data is.

I don't believe --- having actually run the Census --- that there is anything nefarious to this at all. It is simply a continuation of the TIGER system that was started in 1990 but done more efficiently with modern technology. How I wish we had had GPS in 1990.

Why not just use Google earth or one of the other commercially available systems to get this same information? First, those systems are updated at significantly long intervals. The Census data has got to be current in order to be useful for planning and projection purposes. Also, we only collect data on residential structures. That cannot be accuratekly discerned from the commercial systems.

Seriously, nothing remarkable with all this. This is nothing new at all. Just using modern technology to help control costs and get a more accurate Census.


But some clown here will still insist that the entire intent is so that the data can be provided to the reptilians so they can do a more efficient harvest. Put the bong down dude. Seriously.

reply to post by wonderworld


The Census is a constitutionally mandated necessity. Our founding fathers realized a need to have an accurate and thorough census done periodically.

Article 1, Section 2: "The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct."

Source: en.wikisource.org...

Unfortunately this is not a privacy issue. This is a constitutionally mandated enumeration of the population of the United States.

This is no power grab, this is a constitutional edict. It has been in place from the time of the inception of the constitution.

[edit on 5/18/2009 by whatukno]

reply to post by jtma508


Thanks for your expertise on the matter. Ive been analyzing Census's from the 1800's and am also famililar to how they work.

That would all fine if our government remained the same since the 1800’s; however things will be different before 2011.

We have treaties that out trump the Constitution. We are losing out Patriotic rights, one by one. Homeland Security is calling our soldiers terrorist or soon those who own guns.

There is a possibility that this Census info could be used in another way, if government does a flip flop. No more waiting 72 years.

The G20 is in the process of restructuring our banking, medical, and creating a new Unified Government. Here are a few other things of concern.

It's not going paperless that bothers me, it's the method they choose to identify people and link all their personal data together in a Federal or Global database.

Below he can be uprooted from our homes. Yes, even in the United States.

I think you broke the ATS rules in your last comment. That was truly uncalled for.

Check out these;

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to seize all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports, and waterways.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10999 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

National Security Act of 1947 allows for the strategic relocation of industries, services, government and other essential economic activities, and to rationalize the requirements for manpower, resources and production facilities.

1950 Defense Production Act gives the President sweeping powers over all aspects of the economy.

Act of August 29, 1916 authorizes the Secretary of the Army, in time of war, to take possession of any transportation system for transporting troops, material, or any other purpose related to the emergency.

reply to post by whatukno


I am rather fond of the Constitution, as well. What happpens in the odd chance this new Obama and G20 restructuring plan eventually does away with the Constitution and is replaced by foreign treaties?

I know it may sound like a wild idea but it's not so far fetched considering the global economice crisis. Bush and Obama both signed their names in blood, in a desperate attempt to save the economy.

The United States does not have the Clout it did after World War 2. Things are rapidly changing.

reply to post by wonderworld


The day the US no longer becomes a sovereign nation, that day will cause me to be afraid.

But this is just technology being incorporated to serve a vital social need.

Our constitution requires a census. If they can make that more efficient a process. This will be a good thing.

Frankly the private data being taken by a census taker is no more invasive than what is given freely through most government bureaucracies. Accurate data improves our government. It is the means by which the number of representatives in this country for each state is chosen.

Without an accurate census, representative government cannot exist. A state with a higher density of population deserves to have the adequate number of votes in our legislative branch.

If for some reason the very real and very scary idea of the assimilation of this country into a new government becomes a reality. Then the question of the invasive nature of a census becomes an issue.

reply to post by wonderworld


Well Wonder... I only wish the government was a fraction as competent as you suppose them to be. Have you ever worked with the Federal government on a senior (Cabinet-level) basis? I have. I just can't imagine,based upon my first-hand experience, that these people could pull-off the kiind of thing you're imagining.

reply to post by jtma508


The G20 will pull it off. Homeland Security has gotten too big for it's britches.

reply to post by whatukno


They have your address anyway. In a computer data base. That's how they knew to come to your door to take it's GPS location. If they didn't already know where your house was, they wouldn't have been there. It's kind of different than keeping track of your personal location at all times, because your house just sits there. They aren't hard to find. They're even numbered to make finding any particular one easier.

They could probably do it all from commercially available aerial or satellite imagery to within 5-10 feet of accuracy, but since there's a census on anyway, it's probably cheaper to have the census takers do it.

It sounds like you guys have more of an issue with the census in general than anything to do with GPS coordinates.