Do you want to know were UFO's really come from?

Originally posted by dragonridr
Ok im tired of the mis interpretation in art works.

I agree with your saying here, but with the difference, that my view on it regarding the real meaning of those objects in the sky presented it these art works is 100% the opposite of your view.

Originally posted by dragonridr
i think this video should enlighten you on bizentine art where most of the ufo paintings come from.

Well, those explanations as shown in that video has not enlightened me at all, in fact, it shows to me again, what an immense destructive impact disclosure of the UFO/ET reality regarding there presence in our history as there presence today would have on people like you.

reply to post by spacevisitor


What people use as facts of alien visitation in ancient times is a mis interpretation of the data. You have to understand the culture and there beliefs in order to avoid what happens most of the time putting a 21st century spin on something from an earlier time.Just because you think theres proof of aliens throught history doesnt make it so. The UFO genre as it currently stands today with flying saucers aliens etc was born in 1947. Prior to that no greys around and the craft described look nothing like what we vies as UFO space craft. In fact id argue that it was slightly earlier than 47 in the fact that bomber pilots came back from world war two talking about foo fighters that all ways seemed to show up on there bombing runs.

he first sightings occurred in November 1944, when pilots flying over Germany by night reported seeing fast-moving round glowing objects following their aircraft. The objects were variously described as fiery, and glowing red, white, or orange. Some pilots described them as resembling Christmas tree lights and reported that they seemed to toy with the aircraft, making wild turns before simply vanishing. Pilots and aircrew reported that the objects flew formation with their aircraft and behaved as if under intelligent control, but never displayed hostile behavior. However, they could not be outmaneuvered or shot down. The phenomenon was so widespread that the lights earned a name - in the European Theater of Operations they were often called "kraut fireballs" but for the most part called "foo-fighters".

Do you see the pattern yet?

Originally posted by dragonridr
The UFO genre as it currently stands today with flying saucers aliens etc was born in 1947. Prior to that no greys around and the craft described look nothing like what we view as UFO space craft.

I'm afraid thats a completely false statement.

There are many humanoid/saucer shaped craft reports that go back way before the year you mention.

Why would you not know this?

Well, the US may have their own, but they sure can't outfly or outperform the ones from Orion or Andromeda. And when the time is right, freedom will be a new choice humans may have, instead of just nwo.

reply to post by dragonridr


I dont know where you get the idea that the phenomenon suddenly appeared in 1947.

In 1942 theres the "battle of los angeles" whre us army AA positions around LA fired on unidentified tartgets for a hr.
There is a photograph taken by a local news photog of what appears to be a large disc illuminated by the searchlights.

And theres the "mysterious airships" in the US in the 1890's. Sighitngs of airships were reported all over the midwest at a time when there were only a handful of airships in the us, and they were reported in more places than a airship could possibly be.

Admiril Perry reported a ufo in his logs, just before sailing into japan to initiate diplomatic relations.

The accounts go back as far as you look.

ONe of my favorites is from a 13th century slovak manuscript, about the night spirits that come a steal your soul. It is illustrated with what appear to be small, big headed, large eyed "spirits" carrying their victims off in the night.

Dont forget that FOO fighter were also seen extensively in the pacific theater, in places no conventional aircraft could be.



[edit on 19-5-2009 by punkinworks09]

Originally posted by dragonridr
Do you see the pattern yet?

Which pattern do you mean?

There have been UFO's reported throughout history.

www.russianspy.org...

science.howstuffworks.com...

Originally posted by dragonridr
Since i cant hide them why not put alot of dis info about aliens out there as your cover story? What do you think?

If you want to pick and choose your sightings, narrowing them down so they only include a particular type of flying object, then sure, it's a possibility. But if look at the entire spectrum of sightings, encounters, weird creatures (including Bigfoot and lake monsters and leprechauns and ghosts and so on), time slips and shifts, abductions, psychic effects, projections, traces, etc., then you'll have a very difficult time chalking it all up to black project aircraft and disinformation.

What it ultimately adds up to is still anybody's guess.

reply to post by Nohup


You bring up a good point let me state aliens visiting from another planet is a smoke screen.However there has been countless sightings of fairies gnomes goblins etc. In fact in the 1700's many of these sightings report orbs as well. But i think that there all around us we just dont see them.I have a couple of theories as to why but again this is not the aliens from another planet visiting earth scenario. The idea of alien visitation started in the late 30's early 40's but at that time was only in dime store novels and not taken seriously,it wasn't until 1950's the idea of aliens spread by science fiction and after the kenneth arnold sighting ufo sightings were everywhere. In fact if you look at the kenneth arnold interview it wasn't even a flying saucer he saw it was more like a fixed wing aircraft. He used the term skipped like a saucer across water when trying to describe how it moved and it stuck. then suddenly within a couple of weeks there was all kinds of sightings of saucer shaped aircraft. Case of popular media shaping reality.

reply to post by poet1b



Most of the early ufo sighting consisted of cigar shaped aircraft because they knew about dirigibles for example or descriptions of astrological events such as meteors these would be attributed to a sign from god not aliens. You can even go all the way back to Constintine who saw a cross in the sky before his battle in 312 which converted him to Christianity i might add. I am more than familiar with history and there is even the case in germany in 1561 " The sky appeared to fill with cylindrical objects from which red, black, orange and blue white disks and globes emerged. Crosses and tubes resembling cannon barrels also appeared whereupon the objects promptly "began to fight one another." This event is depicted in a famous 16th century woodcut by Hans Glaser. the part that people dont realize this was considered one of multiple "...God the Almighty has ... placed in the heavens many horrible and hitherto unheard of signs... We have seen far more signs now than in any other year. The sun and the moon have been darkened on a number of occasions. A crucifix in the sky was seen, as were biers and coffins with black men beside them. Further, rods and whips and many other signs were seen in a multitude of places... and scarcely a year has passed of late without an eclipse of the sun or moon..."

This again was god seen in the heavens not aliens and was used as a rallying point for a peasant uprising since they thought they had gods approval. And while im at it ill hit the battle of Los Angeles Ive seen mentioned a couple of times as proof. The battle was not shooting at a ufo in fact no ufo was ever mentioned there was mention of non existent Japanese bombers. What they were shooting at was smoke and light diffusion caused by several searchlights. That is why at sunrise they stopped firing and all the excuses started coming out like it was a Japanese light aircraft a balloon an high altitude bomber they didn't want to admit they shot thousands of rounds at nothing. Which is what a later report by the air force contended however army report mentioned light aircraft (they lied to not look stupid). Truth was there gunners were poorly trained at that time often only having weeks of training and no experience on aircraft identification. There is a great thread that discusses it here on ats.

Bottom line the ufo conspiracies have been used for decades to cover up government projects.They try to continue this deception even today and foster the belief in aliens because as long as you believe it cant possibly be ours they win.

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by mikesingh

 

Human abductions some people of course are just crazy but others show several symptoms of drug induced traumas when you research UFO abductions you begin to notice that it has very similar side effect to hypnotic drugs.

To believe aliens are doing this is what your expected to believe even encouraged to believe. Thats why every time someone asks for document of ufo roswell etc under freedom of information they get nothing. There simply looking at the wrong thing!

I firmly believe that there are advanced extraterrestrial civilizations that have, and are, visiting Earth and other planets. Some are perhaps millions of years ahead of us in technology. Probably advanced cultures have been partying around the universe even before the formation of the Solar System!

Now having said that, I do NOT believe in the theory of ‘Grey’ aliens abducting humans and that they are working in tandem with secret organizations like those in Area 51, Dulce and so on.

All this is nothing but covert psychological conditioning of citizens by secret black projects like MKULTRA, regarded by some as the most heinous of all the CIA's disreputable covert operations — with its most secret area of study being psycho electronics. What is their aim? Probably psychological conditioning of the human mind to CONTROL humanity!

So what about those reports of ‘jars’ in huge underground vaults in Dulce containing human plasma and human beings themselves?? I feel these are people being experimented with by none other than these freaking so called super secret organizations.

Why? Probably to ‘construct’ robots or an army of super beings to help their ‘masters’ to build and control the New World Order. The nation who first creates this new soldier will possess a decisive advantage on the "conventional" battlefield -- as will the nation, which first develops a means of using mass mind control techniques to disable the enemy.

And what about the so-called alien abductions? These ideas are being implanted in the subconscious mind so that we are made to fear aliens. The kidnapping is real. The fear is real. The pain is real. The instructions are real. But the little grey men from Zeti Reticuli are not real; they are constructs, Halloween masks meant to disguise the real faces of the controllers.

And as the latest estimates suggest, millions of Americans are alleged to have been abducted! Americans! Heck, why not Indians? Chinese? French? Germans?

So all this talk of alien abductions and “Greys’ is pure and simple nonsense. It’s nothing but a part of mind control ops with the ultimate aim of manipulating mankind to the whims of the controllers of a New World Order!! Is America the starting place for this horrendous, dreadful experiment?

Cheers!

Originally posted by karl 12

Originally posted by dragonridr
The UFO genre as it currently stands today with flying saucers aliens etc was born in 1947. Prior to that no greys around and the craft described look nothing like what we view as UFO space craft.

I'm afraid thats a completely false statement.

There are many humanoid/saucer shaped craft reports that go back way before the year you mention.

Why would you not know this?

Because it doesn't fit his theory



The image above is a Sketch from 1895 of a Gold Mine in Operation on the Moon by Konstantin Tsiolkovsky. "Dreams of the Earth and Sky" (1895)

Notice the "UFO"?



www.thelivingmoon.com...

So just why do people jump to “aliens” as the answer here? Sometimes we need to stop picking up every little crumb to prove a belief. One thing that really bothers me is that we can all agree that there are unidentifiable events that take place, but unless we are actually in a Star Trek universe with 1000s of different crafts from 100s of races then what we see are not aliens at all.

I said in another thread that it seems we need to “what if” ourselves many times over to come to the alien conclusion. People tend to say that space goes on forever so there are endless possibilities, but endless possibilities all so need endless amounts of time and we do not have that. Coming back to reality and off a mountain of "what ifs" we have evidence that even after 6 billion years earth has yet to produce an intelligent galactic traveling race, and has small possibilities of making one (us). So a planet in the perfect situation with maybe trillions of different life can’t do it in ½ the existence of the universe.

Life in general is a long way from intelligent life with the mental and physical capabilities to travel through space, but it seems that many of us see it just a small step from life in general to aliens visiting us, and that is one of the true fallacies that seems to continually rear its ugly head in every alien related post. Also, with endless space there becomes a point that distance is an issue too, so though I might agree that there is intelligent life out in the universe it doesn’t mean that they are close enough to matter, so endless space for endless possibilities doesn’t really play into our existence very much.

At this point is where the “what ifs” start to roll in…what if they can travel instantly across the universe through dimension, what if one ancient race seeded us and millions of other planets billions of years ago… etc. The problem is "What ifs" do not provide fact and even after 100s/1000s of years of witnesses we are still at the “what if” stage. I have no problem sitting around drinking some good scotch with a good cigar and "what if" away, but facts are what truly sets my opinion and right now all the mountains of evidence is still lacking some critical aspects that is something that just jumps out at me when we are talking centuries and 10,000s of people and we are still are at the "what if" stage.


[edit on 20-5-2009 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by Nohup

If you want to pick and choose your sightings, narrowing them down so they only include a particular type of flying object, then sure, it's a possibility. But if look at the entire spectrum of sightings, encounters, weird creatures (including Bigfoot and lake monsters and leprechauns and ghosts and so on), time slips and shifts, abductions, psychic effects, projections, traces, etc., then you'll have a very difficult time chalking it all up to black project aircraft and disinformation.

What it ultimately adds up to is still anybody's guess.

It seems that the only limit to sightings is the limit of our own imagination which time and time again has been proven to be extensive.

reply to post by dragonridr


Well, you make some good points, Ah can't deny. But, there are some counter points that could be made.

Dirigibles or Zeppelins didn't exist before 1897, and the Led Zeppelin didn't exist until 1968, or there abouts, sooo, any cigar shaped UFOs before then can't be explained by knowledge of Zeppelins. Of course, there is always the possibilities that the aliens have updated their technology, a few hundred years ago they were flying cigar shaped vehicles, a few thousand years ago, chariot shaped vehicles, and now days, saucer shaped vehicles. Trivia to follow.

www.centennialofflight.gov...

The first rigid airship to fly was built in the 1890s. Its skeleton and outer cover were made of aluminum, and it was powered by a 12-horsepower (9-kilowatt) Daimler gas engine connected to three propellers. Designed by David Schwarz, a timber merchant from the Austro-Hungarian Empire, it lifted off successfully in a tethered test at Templehof near Berlin, Germany, on November 3, 1897. But its propeller belts broke, the pilot lost control, and the airship crashed.

Now of course, when ever somebody comes out with something new, or witnesses some extraordinary event, there are always plenty of imitators, hanger ons, nutcases, and want to be god-emperors who like to jump on the band wagon, so of course there are going to be many false reports, usually grossly out numbering the legitimate reports, so those obviously false reports don't mean that there aren't legitimate reports. Besides, who knows, maybe these aliens, if they exist, like to play god now and then when it suits them, say to support some protestant movement or something like that.

When it comes to UFOs demonstrating amazing flying capabilities, there are many legitimate reports that are hard to dismiss, like by pilots flying aircraft, who therefore know something about how aircraft fly. Also there are many reports from people who in all other aspects of their lives appear to be normal sane people living ordinary lives with jobs, bills, and kids, who have reported seeing, and even experiencing, such phenomenon, and who are not trying to make a buck off of the story.

As far as the battle of LA is concerned, you state with considerable conviction.

What they were shooting at was smoke and light diffusion caused by several searchlights.

Where you there? Exactly how do you know this for certain?

I would say this is a credible source.

www.sfmuseum.com...

But early in the morning of the 25th renewed activity began. Radars picked up an unidentified target 120 miles west of Los Angeles. Antiaircraft batteries were alerted at 0215 and were put on Green Alert—ready to fire—a few minutes later. The AAF kept its pursuit planes on the ground, preferring to await indications of the scale and direction of any attack before committing its limited fighter force. Radars tracked the approaching target to within a few miles of the coast, and at 0221 the regional controller ordered a blackout. Thereafter the information center was flooded with reports of “enemy planes, ” even though the mysterious object tracked in from sea seems to have vanished. At 0243, planes were reported near Long Beach, and a few minutes later a coast artillery colonel spotted “about 25 planes at 12,000 feet” over Los Angeles. At 0306 a balloon carrying a red flare was seen over Santa Monica and four batteries of anti-aircraft artillery opened fire, whereupon “the air over Los Angeles erupted like a volcano.” From this point on reports were hopelessly at variance.

Now, , to me the critical piece of information is this.

Radars tracked the approaching target to within a few miles of the coast....the mysterious object tracked in from sea seems to have vanished.

The time line here isn't very good, but it appears this UFO flew a hundred miles in about 6 minutes, which means it must have been moving well over 400 MPH. That is pretty fast for a WW II plane, in fact, far faster than the fastest WW II era plane. Then it vanished! How did it vanish? There are no reports of radar malfunction, and being that the Air Force didn't seem to have any problems trying to embarrass the army, you'd think they would have reported that. Maybe it was a six minute radar ghost, that was followed up by a visual report from an artillery Colonel, we could call it the magic UFO theory.

EDIT - I would like to add that this UFO was tracked by radarS, as in multiple radar stations. Which means we have physical evidence from several sources confirming the existence of this UFO.

I would add, that chances are extremely high that if the Colonel reported the planes, several others also saw it, as there were most likely several observers. Remember, this is what the military is telling us. Why was a balloon carrying a flare over LA under a black out? Some kid happen to have a weather balloon, and decided to play a trick? Did this flare ignite while up in the air by some timed device? Do they do this with weather balloons? Did the balloon rise up into the air with the flare lit, and if so, why would four batteries fire upon it. That is a lot of shells going up into the air for a small, single flare under a floating balloon.

I could see a few batteries shooting to be safe rather than sure, but all over the city? Now, once the shooting started under such conditions, it is easy to see how it would continue the next few hours until daylight, and that doesn't mean that there wasn't anything to shoot at in the first place. Why didn't the Air Force launch some planes to investigate? The AF's explanation is extremely weak at best.

In addition, a great many others also reported seeing a UFO.

www.ufodigest.com...

Katie, a young woman that had volunteered to be an air raid warden received a phone call from her district supervisor. The supervisor notified her of the alert and then asked if she had seen an object in the sky that was very close to her home. Without hesitation she went to the window and looked into the sky. "It was huge! It was just enormous! And it was practically right over my house. I had never seen anything like it in my life!" she said. "It was just hovering there in the sky and hardly moving at all." "It was a lovely pale orange and about the most beautiful thing you've ever seen. I could see it perfectly because it was very close. It was big!"

Katie added that the anti-aircraft searchlights had completely surrounded the object. "They sent fighter planes up and I watched them in groups approach it and then turn away. There were shooting at it but it didn't seem to matter." Katie states that U.S. fighter planes did attack the object. "It was like the Fourth of July but much louder. They were firing like crazy but they couldn't touch it." "I'll never forget what a magnificent sight it was. Just marvelous. And what a georgeous color!", said Katie.

Chances are that most likely, something was there before the firing began. A heck of a lot of evidence points to this.

Edit to correct script mistake.

[edit on 20-5-2009 by poet1b]

[edit on 20-5-2009 by poet1b]

reply to post by Xtrozero


Asking "What if" is what has gotten us from being creatures depending on what we found to survive, to creatures using stone tools, to a race that has succeeded in achieving space travel. It is called the scientific method. Say what if, as in a hypothesis, find a way to test it, and then evaluate the results. So we haven't figured out a way to test if aliens have visited our planet, I would still rather spend time on such speculation than watching the boob tube.

If you look at how old our galaxy is, and compare that with how long it took us to go from chipping stones to make sharp tools, to landing on the moon, it is easy to see that is a very tiny amount of time in relation to the age of our galaxy. I would say it is very highly probably that other planets succeeded evolving an intelligent species capable of space flight far sooner than us. When you are considering billions of years, a difference of 5,000 years is minuscule, so a variance of development between two different planets of say, 5,000, or even 50,000 years is insignificant as far as the age of our galaxy is concerned. However, if another planet succeeded in developing intelligent life with capabilities at least equal to our own 50,000 years earlier than life developed here on Earth, than that would put them incredibly further ahead of us in technological development, which means they could have been exploring space for thousands of years before we even learned to harness electricity.

While we as a species might not be around 50,000 years from now, I think the odds are more than in our favor that we will still be here, and that we will continue to evolve as a species, and our technology will continue to evolve as well. We are at a very critical point in human development. In the last century we have evolved to the point where our technology, not to mention the expanse of our numbers as a species, is threatening all life on Earth. Now is when we need to learn how to take responsibility and become goods stewards of this beautiful vineyard that God has given us. While we are slow to turn in this direction, we are indeed making these changes, and the effort to make these changes to protect our environment is growing and expanding.

In addition, I personally believe that it is possible to travel much faster than the speed of light, and that God does play dice, and in fact that our very existence is a roll of the dice.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
ED: You knew that was coming zorgon and anti gravity is a direct
result of Tesla's wireless loss less transmission of electricity.

True but its nice once in a while when someone else does the leg work

If Aliens were doing the cow thing there would only be one reason I could think of... Alien biology students coming every year to study. Same with abductions... every year a new class...

But since that scenario is highly unlikely, the testing of beam weapons seems as good as any, then blame it on Aliens...

Has anyone ever correlated the cattle mutilations with proximity to places like Kirtland AFB, which is beam weapon central?

Aliens are not beaming cattle and determining the damage.
The flight and beam technology is the same technology.
Its been around since Tesla and Rockefeller has it.
From 1900 till he died Tesla spoke of his wireless transmission
of loss less electrical power. Yeah, nice to have. So a lot of
things with that. Electrostatics, the AC kind that flows in one
direction like radio from antennas and who invented radio and
left it to make wireless power. Now owned by the Illuminati
and Rockefeller and the rest of the power brokers.

Tesla's "death ray" (which freezes whole armies); this technology was acquired by American corporations, held chiefly by David Rockefeller, and was later sold in part back to the U.S. government and tested in the '60s, and the same technology was again sold to the U.S. government again in the '70s and '80s, as "star wars" technology.

From an online summary also included in the only 'Alien' book that sells.

reply to post by Zosynspiracy


Aliens is a myth sort of like using god to explain something you don't understand. In todays society where science rules you cant say god did it its no longer an except able answer. So a new religion popped up to take its place now anything that cant be explained aliens are doing it.Aliens are the 21st century religion good example is Scientology. A science fiction writer puts out a book people go yeah that explains everything and a new church is born.

There is no miraculous break through s in science every thing people attribute to aliens can be followed through scientific research from conception to implementation. The science for anti gravity is there has been for a long time.

Now there was some back engineering going on but it wasnt alien it was simply some cool toys we captured from the NAZIS after the war. Germany was know to all ways push the cutting edge of emerging science even Einstein himself was worried!

Enstein's greatest role in the invention of the atomic bomb was signing a letter to President Franklin Roosevelt urging that the bomb be built. The splitting of the uranium atom in Germany in December 1938 plus continued German aggression led some physicists to fear that Germany might be working on an atomic bomb. Among those concerned were physicists Leo Szilard and Eugene Wigner. But Szilard and Wigner had no influence with those in power. So in July 1939 they explained the problem to someone who did: Albert Einstein.

There is no need for aliens to supply us some secrets to anti gravity or anything else for that matter and quite frankly if they were visiting they wouldnt. Even is a craft crashed they wouldn't allow us to keep it to study im sure they would have had procedures in place to destroy it the same as we have procedures to protect are technology if an aircraft goes down.

[edit on 5/21/09 by dragonridr]

reply to post by dragonridr


The man who wrote the letter for Einstein to FDR encouraged
Einstein to back him on his effort after seeing plans for the
German A bomb.

Do you know where he got those stolen German A bomb plans.

Its been thought that Einstein brought the plans to America in
1931 (perhaps 1933 as I don't recall exactly).

This story was a PBS special and might has some youtube presence
and some web pages.

ED: You had it: physicists Leo Szilard

ED: aliens from where? the sheer numbers of stars, distance,
radiation and Kelvin zero temperatures of space defy any alien
relation to earth

[edit on 5/21/2009 by TeslaandLyne]

[edit on 5/21/2009 by TeslaandLyne]

Originally posted by zerbot565
most of the weapons of the "new era" came from nazi germany or old cccp

calling it "extraterestial" just made it " politicly correct " for people to work / reverse engienere it ,

What about before that and the sightings going back to ancient Egypt ?

Any answers for that?