Im Ukranian and came back from russia 3 months ago. My Uncle works at a military base their. He showed the SU-47 and i rode in a t-90 and shot a bunch of guns around. The people their are happy with simple daily lives and dont care about military might as long as they know they can repel an invasion from other countries other than the U.S. So really Russia is a happy place. And their the military can actually admit that another country has some thing better than them, unlike here.(t-90 is the best tank in the world!!!) LOL

No, you're wrong, ask any serious expert and they'll say the T-90 is not the best tank in the world.

Originally posted by Gravija
Im Ukranian and came back from russia 3 months ago. My Uncle works at a military base their. He showed the SU-47 and i rode in a t-90 and shot a bunch of guns around. The people their are happy with simple daily lives and dont care about military might as long as they know they can repel an invasion from other countries other than the U.S. So really Russia is a happy place. And their the military can actually admit that another country has some thing better than them, unlike here.(t-90 is the best tank in the world!!!) LOL

I agree with you. Most of the military people I know are just happy that they are doing their job well and take pride in that. I was at the US base my brother was stationed in Europe just before they were deployed to Iraq and not once did I hear any "this is the best" or "we will kick your ass." They were just doing their jobs. It seems that most(not all) of the people who actually make most arguments here are really just arm-chair generals.



(but I still like the Abrams



[Edited on 4-5-2004 by Facefirst]

I studied the cold war and its McCarthiests and dirty Capitalist politicians who put fear into american minds and communist commisars who put fear in their people.

Don't you love the duck and cover promotions in those times? It should be more like... put your head in between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye.

Anyway i was born in 86 too but watching american movies of the 70's and 80's plus learning the history of then makes me laugh at the ignorance of those times.

Many Russians in the army actually don't want to be... but not the majority.

Originally posted by CoMrAdE_IvAn
I studied the cold war and its McCarthiests and dirty Capitalist politicians who put fear into american minds and communist commisars who put fear in their people.

Don't you love the duck and cover promotions in those times? It should be more like... put your head in between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye.

Anyway i was born in 86 too but watching american movies of the 70's and 80's plus learning the history of then makes me laugh at the ignorance of those times.
.

Yes, they are silly looking back and you can laugh at them all you want. But no one at the time knew what was going on. (Soviet and NATO)Those were very scary times. Believe me, I know.........

Movies should be the LAST source for you to get a truly accurate interpretation of what those times were like.


.

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Facefirst]

What is the best tank in the world??? And dont syay abrams cause the t-90 is better.

personally russia is a good country
thier military although not the best trained or organised is still a useable force if u sent the russian army into an offensive war they wouldnt like it they just want to live in peace so frankly thet wouldnt fight well
but put them on the defensive then youv got a whole new game
imagine the sudden surge of men if russia got attacked although they dont want to fight they WILL fight if thier back is to the wall or if invaded
and i think that the abrahms and t-90 are equal
the challanger is not equal but takes up a close second in my eyes anyway

Originally posted by Gravija
What is the best tank in the world??? And dont syay abrams cause the t-90 is better.

The best tank in the world is the Strv-122, the Abrams comes in 2nd, the Merkava in 3rd, the Challenger and Leclerc I'm deciding on for fourth. Basically modern western tanks are better designed, better protected, and just all around better then Russian designed ones. Any tank that ammo explodes right under the crew when it gets penetrated is terribly designed. The gun, communications, and fire control on Russian tanks is lacking when compared to Western tanks.

Originally posted by Gravija
What is the best tank in the world??? And dont syay abrams cause the t-90 is better.

Sorry - the M1A2 is better then the T-90. It has proven it's self in combat as one of, if not the best MBT in history.

And by the way - how many shots has the T-90 fired in combat?

Not to mention the Abrams has proven itself against the T-72 many times in combat, which the T-90 is an upgrade. It's a renaming of the T-72BU

Gravija: t-90 is the best tank in the world!!!

Kozzy: T-90 is not the best tank in the world

American Mad Man: M1A2 is better then the T-90

Gravija: dont syay abrams cause the t-90 is better




same ol'stuff.
okay. please dont argue here, if you feel like arguing then go ahead and make another who-is-better thread

100th time lol

Originally posted by titus
Gravija: t-90 is the best tank in the world!!!

Kozzy: T-90 is not the best tank in the world

American Mad Man: M1A2 is better then the T-90

Gravija: dont syay abrams cause the t-90 is better




same ol'stuff.
okay. please dont argue here, if you feel like arguing then go ahead and make another who-is-better thread

100th time lol

Deny Ignorance mutha #a!!

The former Soviet Union (Must include the breakaway states not just Russia) hasn't been able to reliably project power throughout the globe since the early eighties. The Reagan era defense budgets basically spent the USSR into surrendering errr... becoming a semblance of democratic nation/states. The ability to create and maintain infrastructure during conflict (yes even during a nuclear exchange) is paramount, I reference the amount of survivable systems (communications, command and control, etc) each nation attempts to build. A quick glance at our difficulties in Iraq; maintaining infrastructure much less order against a primitive (in terms of systems) adversary. Expand this to a global theater with Russia’s underdeveloped air and sealift capability, absence of a warm water port and a lack of an internally driven economy and you have... boobkus. But I digress...

[Edited on 6-5-2004 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by titus
Gravija: t-90 is the best tank in the world!!!

Kozzy: T-90 is not the best tank in the world

American Mad Man: M1A2 is better then the T-90

Gravija: dont syay abrams cause the t-90 is better




same ol'stuff.
okay. please dont argue here, if you feel like arguing then go ahead and make another who-is-better thread

100th time lol

Why doesnt every one pull down their trousers and get out a measuring stick?

Whoever said M1Abrams is better and proved itself have not proven its effectiveness.

The M1abram took on tank crews who don't want to fight and barely get any training.

Well, that settles that argument.

i need proof.

i need the dates too of your claims.

hey the challanger is way bettere than the lerac mabye not as fast as the abrahms but its a damm site cheaper

Originally posted by CoMrAdE_IvAn
Whoever said M1Abrams is better and proved itself have not proven its effectiveness.

The M1abram took on tank crews who don't want to fight and barely get any training.

What are you talking about? The Iraqi republican guard was a well trained and motivated fighting force.

I know this because my uncle was a M1A1B Abrams tank gunner with the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment in the Gulf War.

[Edited on 6-5-2004 by Kozzy]

Originally posted by devilwasp
hey the challanger is way bettere than the lerac mabye not as fast as the abrahms but its a damm site cheaper

The Leclerc beats out the Challenger in communications and fire control by far (most important thing). The Challenger's gun and armor are better, but not by far at all.