Originally posted by Facefirst

Originally posted by RedOctober90

I rememmber the 80's portion, but I have several members of the family who were alive back in the 50's and said that they never lived in fear over nuclear war, it was just two paranoid nations threatening each other but none of them really had the "balls" to launch knowing that MAD was in place.\

the Islamic fundemtalists wouldn't think twice about launching nukes.

During the Cold War atleast there was warning of an attack.
[Edited on 2-5-2004 by RedOctober90]

Ok, no offense, but seeing that you were born in 86', I really can't see how much of the Cold War you could have been aware of at 5 and 6 years old.

Warning? Warnings did not matter in the cold war. With Soviet and US ICBM subs all over, where were you going to hide? Unless you had the access and time to get to a serious bunker or lived out in the middle of no-where, you were a goner.

The warning was only long enough for you to say your last prayers.

It did not matter about who had the "balls" to use the weapons. It would only take one time, or one slip-up.

At that time, it was like a great big game of poker. Constant bluffing, but the stakes were the highest of all time. Total destruction, which is something not worth risking. Neither side knew if the other side had the "balls" to go through with it. As a result, I grew up with a healthy respect for the Soviet Union's strength.

The US and the Soviet Union came within an inch of a Nuke War during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Recently released info shows that we were much closer than the public knew. Thank God that it did not happen.

As far as Islamic fanatics getting Nukes, it is only a matter of time.

And yes, I agree that with you that at this point, they would most likely not hesitate to use them. Why bother hanging around Earth, when you can get 72 virgins in the afterlife?

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[Edited on 2-5-2004 by Facefirst]

Very good and true points there.

I use the viewpoints of the elders in my family who were around during this time. Today, they feel as if this new global islamic fundemtalism is far worse than anything they have seen so far. We are dealing with people who do not have the same Western type morals and values and think what they do is for Allah, therefore they wouldn't think twice about blowing up the world if it was for allah and the 72 virgins. The USA and USSR yes of course were at each others throats at certain points, but these are mostly countries founded upon European people, with of course Caucasian values/morals. We knew the implications of the use of nukes and based them upon our morals/values, not based upon a religion and pleasing our almighty creator.

Originally posted by RedOctober90


Very good and true points there.

I use the viewpoints of the elders in my family who were around during this time. Today, they feel as if this new global islamic fundemtalism is far worse than anything they have seen so far. We are dealing with people who do not have the same Western type morals and values and think what they do is for Allah, therefore they wouldn't think twice about blowing up the world if it was for allah and the 72 virgins. The USA and USSR yes of course were at each others throats at certain points, but these are mostly countries founded upon European people, with of course Caucasian values/morals. We knew the implications of the use of nukes and based them upon our morals/values, not based upon a religion and pleasing our almighty creator.

I do agree with many points you bring up, but fanatics are fanatics regardless of it being to God or to one's country or if that belief is European based. (The Waffen SS come to mind) Don't you think if the Waffen SS had nukes in the final days of WWII that they would have not hesitated to use regardless of the damage to their own country? judging by all the stories I have heard told by allied troops, I don't doubt that they would have.

The stakes were so high in the cold war, that neither side could risk under-estimating the other. All sides had been through a great deal in WWII.

An entertaining insight into fanatic behavior during the Cold War is the movie "Dr. Strangelove." (Stanley Kubrick, I highly recommend it

I personally agree with you that global fundamentalism is a great threat to the prosperity of the world. Communism vs Capitalism was a battle of ideas, but there seemed to be some common ground based in reality, not the promise of virgins and eternal bliss.

I just cannot seem to see an immediate solution. Just how does one combat an idea or ideaology?


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Who ever said that having 2 nuclear superpowers in compitition is a good thing needs to SERIOUSLY rethink their position. The chance of an accident causing nuclear war (much less an intended attack) is exponentially greater. Remember, a country gets about 10-30 mins to make it's choice, so do we really want our leaders to have reason to think they might be under attack?

There might be a huge balance between the nations but it would take anything simple to make everything slide into chaos.

There was terrorism from communists during the 70's and 80's... no difference now... just suicide bombers instead of rebels running around with AK-47's.

yeah, russia now are just in hard time, they need develop economy and recovery other things first. there weaponry are still first class in the world.

Originally posted by Facefirst

Originally posted by RedOctober90


Very good and true points there.

I use the viewpoints of the elders in my family who were around during this time. Today, they feel as if this new global islamic fundemtalism is far worse than anything they have seen so far. We are dealing with people who do not have the same Western type morals and values and think what they do is for Allah, therefore they wouldn't think twice about blowing up the world if it was for allah and the 72 virgins. The USA and USSR yes of course were at each others throats at certain points, but these are mostly countries founded upon European people, with of course Caucasian values/morals. We knew the implications of the use of nukes and based them upon our morals/values, not based upon a religion and pleasing our almighty creator.

I do agree with many points you bring up, but fanatics are fanatics regardless of it being to God or to one's country or if that belief is European based. (The Waffen SS come to mind) Don't you think if the Waffen SS had nukes in the final days of WWII that they would have not hesitated to use regardless of the damage to their own country? judging by all the stories I have heard told by allied troops, I don't doubt that they would have.

The stakes were so high in the cold war, that neither side could risk under-estimating the other. All sides had been through a great deal in WWII.

An entertaining insight into fanatic behavior during the Cold War is the movie "Dr. Strangelove." (Stanley Kubrick, I highly recommend it

I personally agree with you that global fundamentalism is a great threat to the prosperity of the world. Communism vs Capitalism was a battle of ideas, but there seemed to be some common ground based in reality, not the promise of virgins and eternal bliss.

I just cannot seem to see an immediate solution. Just how does one combat an idea or ideaology?


.

The solution is of course a horrible thing to even mention, but it is indeed the only solution as I see it so far.

russia just got kicked in the (V) area
just give them a wee while theyll be back

Somtimes, I ask myself if ATS is not infiltrated by the FSB...

Originally posted by devilwasp
russia just got kicked in the (V) area
just give them a wee while theyll be back

Can you explain?

Do you mean by the "revolution" from communism to a more capitalistic society.

well yeah that didnt really help thier economy did it?
also when the comie gov bankrupted them didnt help etheir?

Originally posted by devilwasp
well yeah that didnt really help thier economy did it?
also when the comie gov bankrupted them didnt help etheir?

Of course, and especially when a lot of the citizens of the USSR were reluctant of going capitalist after the many years of communism being unsure of the problems that might occur. But even the challenge of this occurs. Russia will pull itself through... it is no third world nation that is for sure.

My concern is with the old Cold War residue of the competition with NATO that exists to a point. That will probably lessen as time goes on.

[Edited on 3-5-2004 by RedOctober90]

[Edited on 3-5-2004 by RedOctober90]

I followed this thread, which I found interesting in general. I think, however, that not many posters are quite informed what the dynamics are in Russia.

The so-called "growth" in Russia's economy can actually be traced to the rising oil prices. The fundamental dependency of the country on oil exports is publicly recognized by the officials, and sometimes even bemoaned.

The Russia's military strength is decaying. I agree with some posters saying 10k tanks rusting in a storage lot
won't do you any good. There are some new weapons under development, and tanks in particular, and from what I read these are very interesting. The real problem however is funding and governance in the military, and it seems like nothing good is happening in this area. The troops in general aren't even properly fed. These are just the fact sfrom the Russian press.

The country has been hijacked, and the future looks pretty grim.

I would like to see commentary from someone currently living in Russia, they would know the best, more so than outside sources most likely.

Take it from someone who works in the field of nuclear weapons, Russia is still a peudo threat, nothing more really..we get daily briefings on all activity of such things around the world, and lets just say that I would be much more worried about a middle east country using a stolen/bought russian ICBM, than Russia using them theirselves

Well, Incognito, Russia was never much of a threat. The idea of Russia attacking the US first was deeply alien to the Russian psyche. I attest to that as a native of that country who lived there through most of the Cold War.

i guess al of them captain american books make people think Russia would really invade the US.

Originally posted by CoMrAdE_IvAn
i guess al of them captain american books make people think Russia would really invade the US.

No, it was the Rambo movies

From a quote like that, my guess is it that you are too young to remember the ColdWar.

No one knew for sure!

Get that through your head.

[Edited on 4-5-2004 by Facefirst]

Originally posted by Facefirst

Originally posted by CoMrAdE_IvAn
i guess al of them captain american books make people think Russia would really invade the US.

No, it was the Rambo movies

From a quote like that, my guess is it that you are too young to remember the ColdWar.

No one knew for sure!

Get that through your head.

[Edited on 4-5-2004 by Facefirst]

actually the planners at the kremlin knew
russia wouldnt have invaded cause they were hppy having an "enemy" to make thier citizens stay in the military

Originally posted by devilwasp

actually the planners at the kremlin knew
russia wouldnt have invaded cause they were hppy having an "enemy" to make thier citizens stay in the military

It is not that simple.

Well, actually the public at the time didn't know that. And none of us here were high-ups in the goverment during the cold war.

Do you think the planners anticipated the Cuban Missle Crisis? We almost went to the big dance over that one.......

[Edited on 4-5-2004 by Facefirst]

no but i was being padantic
sorry
yeah that missile crisis was [pretty damm close to war