Originally posted by RedOctober90

The reason why people think Russia is still in chaos, is because they do not brag constantly about new advancements.. they quietly build up, an excellent strategy.

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by RedOctober90]

exactly, look what circus usa made out of their hypersonic vehicle launch, russia actually also launched such vehicles not so long ago, also all the su-27 are almost already upgraded to 4++ generation with new avionics some RCS reduction and new weapons, in 2005 the upgrade of the su-27 will finish, the migs are also being upgraded but lag behind to sukhoi.. the T-50 pak-fa design is already made and should take off in two or 3 years etc..



Krazyivan, you forget that these tanks can fire ATGMS from their cannons that have longer range then abrams

Originally posted by RedOctober90
... The reason why people think Russia is still in chaos, is because they do not brag constantly about new advancements.. they quietly build up, an excellent strategy.

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by RedOctober90]

Is it me, or is that a little ... unnerving? Buidling up quietly? Building up for what? WWIII? I agree it's an excellent strategy, but you make it sound like they are 'building up' for a major military offensive ...

Originally posted by Flanker

Krazyivan, you forget that these tanks can fire ATGMS from their cannons that have longer range then abrams

The ATGM that these tanks can fire have pentrating capability of around 400-500mm of RHA. This is not sufficient in pentrating the armor of the M1A1/M1A2 tanks or the M2 Bradley IFV/CFV. On the otherhand M2 as well as specially equiped Humvee with TOW 2 can succesfully engage tanks in the t55, t-64, and t-72 model. Also certain less armored version of the t-80 that were made out of neccesity are also vulnerable to the TOW 2 missiles.

Russia needs to build up because its got an advancing EU and a growing China near it. Russia has to build up!

Europe and China have a pretty goo d relation ship. Better than Americas thats for sure.

Originally posted by CoMrAdE_IvAn
Russia needs to build up because its got an advancing EU and a growing China near it. Russia has to build up!

i hope russia and america get wise to their mutual threats(mainly china) of the near future and stop being suspicious of eachother and building weapons to counter eachother.

Originally posted by CoMrAdE_IvAn
Russia needs to build up because its got an advancing EU and a growing China near it. Russia has to build up!

russia will get ripped a new one. the only thing that could save her is another winter like the ones napoleon and hitler faced.

russia is not what she used to be and will never reach that leve again.


and not to mention all of their stuff is just copies of our stuff. the only thing that they really excel at is small arms.

[Edited on 4-30-2004 by KrazyIvan]

Americas stuff is copies of Russias stuff and they will reach the same power level they had during the USSR and probably will get stronger.

Against China Russia has a good chance to defend itself. With Europe it will be hard especially if US backs em up.

Russia is trying to get belarus and the ukraine at its side.

Originally posted by KrazyIvan

Originally posted by CoMrAdE_IvAn
Russia needs to build up because its got an advancing EU and a growing China near it. Russia has to build up!

russia will get ripped a new one. the only thing that could save her is another winter like the ones napoleon and hitler faced.



[Edited on 4-30-2004 by KrazyIvan]

oh yeah i forgot that russians got special anti-freez in their blood right?


, the rest is just not worth answering

While one could nitpick all day about US vs Russian equipment...the basic overall deal is that most Russian equipment is outdated. Sure, there is a lot of it...but if it's not very effective, then well, there you have it....

Not to say they don't have their stars...they do, but the bottom line is that the majority of the military are not there willingly, and they are using old equipment.

Now, I will agree that Russia is far from falling apart. Indeed, they seem to be getting their act together as of late, and in hopping in bed with Saudi and the Euro (at least tentatively), they just may be poised for a comeback as a major world superpower...

most of Russias old equipment has been scrapped or modernised so all its stuff is mostly up to date.

Originally posted by xenophanes85

Originally posted by RedOctober90
... The reason why people think Russia is still in chaos, is because they do not brag constantly about new advancements.. they quietly build up, an excellent strategy.

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by RedOctober90]

Is it me, or is that a little ... unnerving? Buidling up quietly? Building up for what? WWIII? I agree it's an excellent strategy, but you make it sound like they are 'building up' for a major military offensive ...

Same reason why the United States spends the most on it's defense budget than any other country. Russia has the right to build and upgrade it's weaponary as much as the U.S. does. We need to quit thinking of the US as the only military superpower.

I don't mind seeing the USA and Russia once again as a check and balance system of world power. Russia is better off not joining the global order known as the EU and once again rising as a super power.

Russia will rise again.

[Edited on 1-5-2004 by RedOctober90]

I just hope we are friends so we don't face Cold War II.

Originally posted by xenophanes85
I just hope we are friends so we don't face Cold War II.

Personally I enjoyed the balance of power that the USSR and the U.S. maintained on each other. Now the U.S.A is swinging all it's weight around all over the world, doing as it pleases with no check or balance.

Originally posted by RedOctober90

Originally posted by xenophanes85
I just hope we are friends so we don't face Cold War II.

Personally I enjoyed the balance of power that the USSR and the U.S. maintained on each other. Now the U.S.A is swinging all it's weight around all over the world, doing as it pleases with no check or balance.

Are you old enough to have remembered life durring the Cold War?

I do agree that the US is flexing it's muscle too much, but the Cold War was not fun. We came right to the brink of a full out Nuke war at least once durring that time. Living everyday with the thought of that possibility was not fun.

Hey Im sorta new here so fill me in.

Originally posted by Facefirst

Originally posted by RedOctober90

Originally posted by xenophanes85
I just hope we are friends so we don't face Cold War II.

Personally I enjoyed the balance of power that the USSR and the U.S. maintained on each other. Now the U.S.A is swinging all it's weight around all over the world, doing as it pleases with no check or balance.

Are you old enough to have remembered life durring the Cold War?

I do agree that the US is flexing it's muscle too much, but the Cold War was not fun. We came right to the brink of a full out Nuke war at least once durring that time. Living everyday with the thought of that possibility was not fun.

I rememmber the 80's portion, but I have several members of the family who were alive back in the 50's and said that they never lived in fear over nuclear war, it was just two paranoid nations threatening each other but none of them really had the "balls" to launch knowing that MAD was in place.\

I'd choose a Cold War over a massive terrorism/race war. Because the "war on terror" is a race/culture clash, dealing with people who aren't afraid to die for there cause. I think differently for the USA and the USSR because they were of caucasian race and European culture, the Islamic fundemtalists wouldn't think twice about launching nukes.

And now the USA is nearly unchecked to throw its fists around the world, which wasn't the case when you had an equally superior superpower (the USSR) during the Cold War.. both capable of inflicting massive damage on one another and even defeat.

During the Cold War atleast there was warning of an attack.. today you don't even know if you will not be sniped by some islamic fundemtalist while your pumping gas.

[Edited on 2-5-2004 by RedOctober90]

Originally posted by RedOctober90

I rememmber the 80's portion, but I have several members of the family who were alive back in the 50's and said that they never lived in fear over nuclear war, it was just two paranoid nations threatening each other but none of them really had the "balls" to launch knowing that MAD was in place.\

the Islamic fundemtalists wouldn't think twice about launching nukes.

During the Cold War atleast there was warning of an attack.
[Edited on 2-5-2004 by RedOctober90]

Ok, no offense, but seeing that you were born in 86', I really can't see how much of the Cold War you could have been aware of at 5 and 6 years old.

Warning? Warnings did not matter in the cold war. With Soviet and US ICBM subs all over, where were you going to hide? Unless you had the access and time to get to a serious bunker or lived out in the middle of no-where, you were a goner.

The warning was only long enough for you to say your last prayers.

It did not matter about who had the "balls" to use the weapons. It would only take one time, or one slip-up.

At that time, it was like a great big game of poker. Constant bluffing, but the stakes were the highest of all time. Total destruction, which is something not worth risking. Neither side knew if the other side had the "balls" to go through with it. As a result, I grew up with a healthy respect for the Soviet Union's strength.

The US and the Soviet Union came within an inch of a Nuke War during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Recently released info shows that we were much closer than the public knew. Thank God that it did not happen.

As far as Islamic fanatics getting Nukes, it is only a matter of time.

And yes, I agree that with you that at this point, they would most likely not hesitate to use them. Why bother hanging around Earth, when you can get 72 virgins in the afterlife?

.







[Edited on 2-5-2004 by Facefirst]