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Incan walls... How did they do it?

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posted on May, 21 2009 @ 04:13 AM
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I thought it pertinent to post this as it is from an intriguiging book "The Case for UFO" by MK Jessup. This is from the annotated version. Note the annotations (underlined). More on that later.




In many areas we find evidence of stone blocks of unbelievable weight being quarried, more or less casually moved considerable distances, then lifted into place. This common factor connects pre-Inca Peru with Easter Island in a startling and undeniable way, and seems to tie in the Middle East, the Orient, Africa, and maybe Polynesia. Many investigators and thinkers have proposed methods for moving these quarried and dressed blocks. All of the proposals are based on application of such simple

Block & tackle unknown to those peopole (sic) Mech. Lifting, thusly Not feasable,
(DON'T KNOW)


present day engineering equipment as block-and tackle or sand ramps. The great pyramids, consisting of hundreds of thousands of huge stone blocks, are thought by some to have been erected by thousands of slaves toiling up long ramps of sand to bring these gigantic masses from the Nile. Flotation has been considered. No suggestions have been made which really fit all cases, and some of the submissions
are so cumbersome and inadequate as to seem ridiculous.

Let's take a look at some of these great monoliths, and note their size, their geographical distributions, and, where possible, something of their age and any other details which stand out.

One such example is that of Sacsahuaman Fortress, in the High Andes of Peru, above the ancient Inca, and pre-Inca city of Cuzco. There are several eras of civilization represented in the poorly understood archaeological remains at, and near, Cuzco. The latest, aside from the present Spanish-Indian population, are the Inca ruins, most of which were in use at the time of the iniquitous Spanish conquest. The Incas were also using some structures which were inherited from their predecessors, and this has led to some confusion, because practically all other ruins in the neighborhood have been vaguely and uncertainly classified as "pre-Incan."

This is a rather too comprehensive term, and the pre-Inca remains should be divided into those ruins which were immediately pre-Inca, and those which had their creation remote in time; some of which were skillfully constructed before the mountains were raised to their present high level – certainly before glaciation.

The massive work of Sacsahuaman seems to be intermediate between the extremely old and the more immediately pre-Inca, and may very well be the initial works of those people who were last in the area before the Incas, and whose works the Incas inherited and used.

Rope of that day was so crude as to even
be negligible, Lacked strength.
L-M's Build this before deciding to go Undersea.
They were too Puny to Withstand an attack
such as the one received in the Great Bombardment
prior to building it.
Inca & Mayan peoples (sic) Did NOT know the use of the
Wheel in any shape, form or size, at all. SO THEY
COULD NOT HAVE MOVED SUCH HUGE MASSES.
Not so, Jemi, one by one they were Lifted &
only one face was "matched" at a time, using
FORCE-GRIPS OR THE STRONG "FREEZE" SIMPLY
MAKING SHIP TO MOVE BACK & FORTH each thusly
NOW appears to have been ground between each,
which, as you know & see could Not work
for the force-freeze Doesn't Grip two Huge ones
AND RUB them, If two were "Gripped" BOTH
Would be forced to Move with the ship, back
& forth, simultaneously, thus roughness would
BE between the two Held. HOWEVER, if these
HUGE STONE BLOCKS WERE FORCE CUT BY FORCECUTTERS,
THEN, END TO END, SIDE FOR SIDE
THEY WOULD "MATCH" PERFECTLY WHEN CUT
FROM SAME QUARRY. BOTH WAYS WERE USED. A SHORTCUT
LATER USED WAS ROCK-WELDING.
ROCK-WELDING, IE. MOLECULAR-ELECTRONIC-FIELD
BLENDING Was used as the signs of the Great
War approached as an Emergency speed-up Measure.


(to be continued)

[edit on 21-5-2009 by A Conscience]




posted on May, 21 2009 @ 04:13 AM
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(continued)

A copy of the original paperback was recieved by Admiral N. Furth, Chief of the Office of Naval Research, Washington D.C., with strange annotations (those underlined). The annotations apparently seems to be the work of 3 individuals (one named Jemi). Make out what you will. Could be an elaborate hoax, but it raises some interesting insights.

"The notes had a tone of absolute weirdness. Sometimes they agreed with Jessup’s original text; sometimes they contradicted it, as they referred to two types of people living in space. They specified two habitats for the space people: underseas, and what they termed the “stasis neutral”, the latter term apparently in agreement with Jessup’s exposition on points of neutral gravity in space.

They mentioned the building of undersea cities and identified two groups of spacemen, “L-M’s” and “S-M’s”. The “L-M’s” were designated as peaceful, the “S-M’s” as sinister.

Some of the terms used would have been familiar to any ufologist of the 1950’s, yet others expressed an alien-like vocabulary which had never been previously used in “saucer” literature.

Some of the terms were: Mothership, home-ship, dead-ship, great ark, great bombardment, great return, great war, little-men, force-fields, deep freezes, measure markers, scout ships, magnetic and gravity fields, sheet of diamond, cosmic rays, force cutters, inlay work, clear-talk, telepathing, burning “coat”, nodes, vortice, magnetic “net”."


The Fortress (so-called by archaeologists, who admit no types of building other than religious, military, and occasionally residential) of Sacsahuaman is on a mountain top overlooking modern Cuzco. It is noteworthy as one of the earliest works showing the construction of walls by grinding and fitting stones, in situ. These walls are also noted for the very large stones which make up the lower of three tiers, and it is these in which we are more interested. (See Fate, Vol. II, No. 1, and American Anthropologist, 1936.)

The stones making up the corners of the reentrant angles, of this lower tier, appear to be a dark basalt; heavy, hard, and rugged. They are so large that they dwarf a man on horseback standing beside them. Some of them are about twelve feet square at the base, and eighteen to twenty feet high. They are estimated to weigh about two hundred tons each. Other stones in the same walls range from small ones of only a few hundred pounds, through continuous gradations up to the largest. All of them were crudely rough quarried, and were then ground into their designated niches in the structure by
pushing them back and forth, in situ, until they fitted so closely, completely and accurately that a knife blade cannot be inserted between them. This is a logical and practical shortcut to effective stone fitting which we have not equaled in modern engineering.

(It is interesting to note in passing, however, that we use this method in what is probably our operation of highest accuracy and precision: lens and mirror grinding for astronomical telescopes. No substitute has been found for this system of grinding pieces of glass together to obtain perfect curvature, and there is no basic difference in the two operations.)

However, there are some startling inferences in the size and mass of the stones. To place the largest of these corner stones in place, so that others could be worked to fit them, required tremendous force. It is unimaginable that sufficient hand labor and crude tackle could be massed around them so that they could be moved and handled.


I hope this put another perspective to the discussion.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by A Conscience
 
Hiya A Conscience, that's an interesting extract and it seems very familiar in parts. I skimmed through and noticed a few misunderstandings and mistakes that tend to discredit the author.

He flatly describes Inca ropes as too weak to move stones. In fact, the Incas were as expert with rope as masonry, they used a course grass to make the ropes. They built 'grass rope bridges' that are quite famous today. These bridges spanned hundreds of feet of chasm and lasted for several years, although modern Peruvians assert that the bridges were renewed annually in a symbolic practice. The Last Inca Bridge and learning the ropes: MIT students build Incan-style bridges at Stata




Some of the terms were: Mothership, home-ship, dead-ship, great ark, great bombardment, great return, great war, little-men, force-fields, deep freezes, measure markers, scout ships, magnetic and gravity fields, sheet of diamond, cosmic rays, force cutters, inlay work, clear-talk, telepathing, burning “coat”, nodes, vortice, magnetic “net”."


The words above are described by Jessop as being unused, unknown or rare in the 1950s. Mothership was coined at least as early as the 1930s with the advent of aircraft carriers and other nautical variants are much older still. Scout ships was in use since the Elizabethan Navy. Inlay work has referred to parquetry and marquetry for centuries as well as silversmiths. I've read Conan Doyle talking about telepathy pre-20th Century. All the terms and, variations of, predate the 1950s.



It is unimaginable that sufficient hand labor and crude tackle could be massed around them so that they could be moved and handled.


The lack of imagination is wholly a problem of the author, Jessop, and is reflected in the many aspects of 'lost civilizations.' Motivated, organized and intelligent people designed and built all the ancient structures. That some people can't comprehend it, or won't believe it, doesn't matter. It happened. Thanks for posting the extract, it led me to this which reminded me to re-read some Joseph Campbell (comparative mythology).



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 01:32 PM
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Well answered K

I studied ancient rope some time ago. We have alot from of it from ancient Egypt and modern versions using old techniques

AE rope was about 20% weaker than rope used by the British Royal Navy in the 19th century. Not bad considering the AE rope was made 3000 years earlier.

I'll try to find the paper I contributed to back in the 80's

Edit later to add

Not finding that at the moment but an interesting website on various materials, strength of and utility by the ancients

The link

[edit on 21/5/09 by Hanslune]



posted on May, 23 2009 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 



He flatly describes Inca ropes as too weak to move stones.


Thanks for your comments.

Actually, it wasn't Jessup who said that the ropes were too weak. They were the annotations/comments (underlined) by the unknown individuals. The annotations that was scattered throughout the book was written in a funny form of English. In this instance, they mentioned things like rock welding, forcecutters, molecular electronic field blending, which I thought was quite unusual terms to use. They were written in 3 different colored inks and in 3 different handwritings, hence the conclusion of 3 individuals.


he words above are described by Jessop as being unused, unknown or rare in the 1950s. Mothership was coined at least as early as the 1930s with the advent of aircraft carriers and other nautical variants are much older still. Scout ships was in use since the Elizabethan Navy.


Sorry, I have not been very clear in my posting as it is a bit complicated.. Those comments were extracted from the introduction and wasn't by Jessup. Jessup, an astronomer, committed suicide in 1959, 4 years after he published this book. The book alienated him from his colleagues, and made very few sales.

Only the sections from "content from external source" are his words.

In 1972, the book was republished with all the strange annotations.

I hope it makes more sense now. If it is still as clear as mud, my apologies.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 02:45 AM
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Well, they did have a wheel. www.precolumbianwheel.com...

I believe the stones were actually poured, like we do cement today.
mormanity.blogspot.com...

The stones have imperfections when removed. Where one stone has an indentation, another has a pimple to fill it. They are not rubbed back and forth to fit.



[edit on 24-5-2009 by Jim Scott]



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 03:27 AM
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reply to post by Jim Scott
 
There's no evidence that the stones were 'poured.' There are however, quarries surrounding the area with unfinished blocks still in situ. Furthermore, there are abandoned blocks en route to the various structures. Links are in several earlier posts and one post of mine.

The link you provided is to a Mormon blog. I don't know if you are or are not a Mormon, but the LDS have a vested interest. Although based on Faith and not really needing the evidence, they'd be delighted if proof of cement or 'poured' blocks was found. There is a reference to 'cement' in the Book of Mormon. The alleged visit of Jesus to the Americas is also an event that Mormons would like to support. From time to time a 'discovery' is revealed that lends weight to theories of Christians being in America before Columbus. Inevitably, such findings lead back to a LDS University in Utah (I can't remember it's name). The discoveries are subsequently found to be misidentifications...



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 03:47 AM
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reply to post by A Conscience
 
I think possibly we were both at a loss to completely understand the contents of the book. Regardless of who did or didn't write or annotate...the contents are suspect. The words aren't anomalous to the period, they are simply presented that way.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 06:23 AM
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well i guess im the only one who thinks its obvious they used very advanced techniques that we dont even have to build the walls. like lazer tools and anti gravity. and that all other theories sound totally insane when you look at the walls.

but i guess thats just me.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 07:23 AM
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reply to post by rapunzel222
 




well i guess im the only one who thinks its obvious they used very advanced techniques that we dont even have to build the walls. like lazer tools and anti gravity. and that all other theories sound totally insane when you look at the walls.


No, you are not the only one who believes this as a possibility; however it is far from obvious. This has been brought forth many times; the problem is the lack of evidence of such technology being used. If you could point to where this technology has been found in an archeological dig I would gladly accept this as an obvious solution.



but i guess thats just me.


No, it is not just you, but it is not a theory that can be proven thus far.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 07:46 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


hay slayer, in the pic where the guy's got his hand on the wall.are those rocks on top of the wall about to fall on that guys .? all these theory's in this thread so far don't begin to cover any of the questions i have.
these structures simply can not be the work of normal human beings in an ancient setting. sorry but they are not.this must be where you start to look
for any answers concerning these structures.anything else is a waste of time.
i believe just by looking at where they're built, suggests that the way they were built,wasn't even a major undertaking, for who they were built by.
they must have performed the task with great ease. just to consider the
task at all. consider the fact of urgency in buildings of this magnitude.

it would have to be something along the lines of,- man our enemies keep showing up and kicking our ass. i think we need a fortress. yes yes a fortress thats a good idea. i'll start filing on this rock about right here
and you file this one down right here.and there off to the races in
prime fashion.
how many times would the enemy show up during cons. to kick there ass some more. so for me no theory comes close to explaining anything
if the logistics arn't considered.


[edit on 9-7-2009 by randyvs]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 01:35 PM
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They look almost fused together, like the edge has been heated to huge degrees then placed ontop of each other.

mabe some sort of laser. ... i can only speculate how they might have heated them up.

[edit on 9-7-2009 by MR BOB]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 




Well unlike some around here who theorize about them being a natural formation do not realize all those pictures are tiny parts of a much larger man made complex.





[edit on 9-7-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 
Good point and well illustrated...some folk forget that the biggest constructions all began with the first hole being dug or the first stone being laid. Their importance inevitably became symbolic...cornerstones, breaking earth ceremonies etc.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 


My favorite has been and always will be the perfectly cut and placed

"Older stones"




posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 07:58 PM
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Could it be they used ancient techniques like using the Energy of Energy Vortexes to place them on the right spot?

And that they used some yet unkown tool like laser / heat beamer to cut the straight lines?

Just my 2 cents here



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 10:09 AM
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That pic you posted Slayer would seem to dispel any notion that these stones were "rocked back and forth" to fit them together. That's a ludicrous theory frankly. Sliding a heavy stone, weighing a few hundred pounds to a few hundred tons out of position would not only take substantial effort but also potentially cause the stones to "round over" the edges, so instead of getting a flat surface you end up with something more "curvilinear".

Corner stones also couldn't have been slid back and forth since the directions it would need to slide are perpendicular to one another.

Incan walls do remind me of some of the monastery walls in Tibet, some of which sit "impossibly" high on cliffs with only the narrowest of pathways leading to them. Childress has a book on his theory of "sound" levitation.

Acoustic Levitation Of Stones

I'd be curious to see if sound can render something we think of as solid into a more "plastic" state for ease of sculpting.

[edit on 10-7-2009 by Blackmarketeer]



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 10:53 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 
man i had to flag you slay. you have really got some great pics on here.so many i've never seen anywhere before. whats up w/ that?
i like you also have been awe struck w/ wonderment by these strutures.
very badass.


[edit on 10-7-2009 by randyvs]



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


As I mentioned in a earlier post on this particular thread. I have been fascinated with the Incas and all other Early American cultures for over 25 years. I'm not an old man but I'm also not a spring chicken. I have viewed tons of web pages, books and seen all types of videos/movies on the topic.

I'm no expert!

I agree with the consensus about the rocking and rubbing prosses for "Most" of the construction of these great sites. However I just cant see that being done with the largest stone.



posted on Jul, 11 2009 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by PhotonEffect
 


Easy answer? Lots of people sweating and grunting. Also you might want to note that most of what the Inca built is not perfect. They used fill and mortar quite a bit.

It's worth noting that the Incan government was pretty much the ultimate in terms of Fascism. Mussolini was a girl scout compared to the Incan emperors. The Inca people had to work. All crops went to the local depot, to be redistributed. Once harvesting was done, every Inca man, woman, and child was put to work on public works. There are instances of cobbled roads being built... right next to other cobbled roads going in the same direction. Why? Just to keep the people busy working instead of, you know, thinking about challenging the priesthood or emperor.

Pretty good system, if you're a misanthrope with total power, I suppose.



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