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Taxman can use database of ID cards to track our spending habits and bank accounts

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posted on May, 15 2009 @ 05:08 PM
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Taxman can use database of ID cards to track our spending habits and bank accounts


www.dailymail.co.uk

Personal data gathered for the controversial ID cards scheme will be made available to the taxman.

HM Revenue and Customs officials will be able to trawl through a person's financial transactions for hints of any undeclared earnings or bank accounts.

The revelation last night renewed fury about the £5.5billion ID cards project.

There was already widespread concern that the Home Office, police and security officials would have access to the scheme's database.

But campaigners said handing information to tax inspectors was a sinister development.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.dailymail.co.uk
news.bbc.co.uk

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Manchester 'launch' for ID cards




posted on May, 15 2009 @ 05:08 PM
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I cannot believe this, The ID cards are not even in use yet and it's becoming apparent that at least one government agency will be able to access financial data contained on them.

This is a massive wakeup call. How bold can TPTB be to think that people will just let this happen, or am I being naive?

I will never get this damn ID card. Although they will surely push for it to be conpulsary.

www.dailymail.co.uk (visit the link for the full news article)



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 04:31 AM
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This is the first article in a while which has upset me deeply. Times like these you can longer kid yourself that it's all paranoia, because now, a very real face has been put on this unbridled tyranny. Truly terrifying times. I don't know how anyone can still think the ID card is for our benefit.

I wrote this on the Mail comments page. Let's see if they let it through:

"Do we never learn from history? Do we never learn that the only systematic method of preventing totalitarianism is the limitation of government power? Just because Jacqui Smith puts a smiley face on the ID card, does not make it benevolent. This will mark the day that we chose tyranny and oppression over justice and liberty."



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 05:26 AM
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I think this part of the article is scariest:

Taken from the same artice


The log records each time a card has been used to verify a person's identity when they make a big value purchase, open a bank account or take out a mortgage.


(Letters emboldened by me)

It meas that people will need to identify themselves when making "extravagant" purchases. Not only will it make people even more suspicious of their fellow citizens but it will turn every retailer into a government informer and re-enforce the class system with a vengeance.

Worse still, it says:


The powers that give 'Commissioners for Revenue and Customs' access to the ID cards audit log were buried away in orders laid before Parliament earlier this week - at the same time as the full extent of the expenses scandal was emerging.


So much for transparency. I knew government actions would be hidden behind the veil of the expenses distraction but I didn't know what they would be; and I suspect even worse will come as ministers make us pay for calling them out.

S&F

[edit on 16/5/09 by Rapacity]



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by Cythraul

"Do we never learn from history? Do we never learn that the only systematic method of preventing totalitarianism is the limitation of government power? Just because Jacqui Smith puts a smiley face on the ID card, does not make it benevolent. This will mark the day that we chose tyranny and oppression over justice and liberty."


Very well said.

I will just have to hold out as long as I can before getting one, and tell everyone I know that it's a very very bad idea.

We are living in very scary times.



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 03:42 PM
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What's with this disconnect over "privacy" in the UK?

You guys need to either adapt and embrace the idea that what's good for the government is good for the people in general, and correct any implementation flaws, or you need to confront and correct what is apparently an irreconcilable schism in your society.

Otherwise, it's a "war of incrementalism", and it's pretty obvious who is "winning".



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 03:50 PM
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lets be blind and say

using a mobil phone dosent track you
using the internet dosent track you
using a cc / bank card dosent track you

an other aspect of the whole scenario whould be

why are you afraid of that they are tracking your phone
why are you afraid of that they track your internet trail
why are you afraid of that they track your spendings

then one might ponder

why would they want to track your mobil phone
why would they want to track your internet trail
why would they track your spendings

one could go one ,

i bet people nagged and winned when driverslicences came ,
yet here we have them and people still cant drive.

and the conclution in a glassbottle

are you what it takes to be a citizen ?



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by kiwifoot

This is a massive wakeup call. How bold can TPTB be to think that people will just let this happen, or am I being naive?

I will never get this damn ID card. Although they will surely push for it to be conpulsary.



You're right it is a massive wake up call, just like all the huge wake up calls that came before it. Problem is, is that there are those that will never wake up because it's easier for them to stay asleep and not have to work to keep their freedoms, it's easier for them to let tptb make all their decisions for them, tell them what they can and can't do.

Sorry but yes you are being naive. People, for the most part, have become fat and lazy, complacent to let the ruling class control them more and more every day (until the day comes when they will control every single aspect of our lives) all the while saying "there's nothing we can do about it"



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by zerbot565
 

Don't pretend naivete.

An Englishman invented the term "panopticon" in 1785. They have all had quite enough time to realize the implications, and are just now acting all surprised and hesitant about the obvious implications of public policy?



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by Ian McLean
What's with this disconnect over "privacy" in the UK?

You guys need to either adapt and embrace the idea that what's good for the government is good for the people in general, and correct any implementation flaws, or you need to confront and correct what is apparently an irreconcilable schism in your society.

Otherwise, it's a "war of incrementalism", and it's pretty obvious who is "winning".


There are many reasons why 'Brits' have an issue with privacy and Data protection, here's a few:

www.computerweekly.com...



Personal data on every child in the country and national insurance numbers and bank account details of parents and carers claiming child benefit have gone missing after the government sent two password-protected CDs through the post. The loss, one of the worst incidents of its kind, has sparked the sudden resignation of Paul Grey, the chairman of Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC) today.


news.bbc.co.uk...



Government 'loses one PC a week'

One government computer a week has been going missing on average in recent months, ministers have admitted.

Figures gained by the Conservatives showed 53 had disappeared in a year, along with 36 BlackBerries, 30 mobile phones and four memory sticks.


&

news.bbc.co.uk...



Extent of data losses is revealed

Sensitive data potentially affecting more than four million people was lost by government departments in the year to April, BBC analysis has found.

Whitehall departments have included details of personal information losses in their annual financial statements.

Cases included the loss of the National Insurance numbers of 17,000 people and the theft of a laptop with encrypted details of 17,000 Sats markers.


Also in the UK we are constantly spied on and monitored.

www.telegraph.co.uk...



Britain: the most spied on nation in the world

A stark warning that Britain is turning into a Big Brother society, where the lives of millions are routinely monitored and tracked from cradle to grave, is given today by the Government's privacy watchdog.

Richard Thomas, the Information Commissioner, says more and more personal data is being collected and stored on all of us, both by the state and big business.


So is it any wonder that we feel an ID card system is a step too far?
Also there really are less than watertight arguments for them in the first instance:

www.guardian.co.uk...



Beware of card tricks

The government claims that national identity cards will help to counter terrorism, illegal immigration and ID fraud. That's rubbish, says Henry Porter, and in fact there is something much more sinister about them - they will fundamentally alter the relationship between citizen and state, and make slaves of us all.

So, first of all, terrorism. The Spanish ID card did not stop the Madrid train bombers and a British ID card wouldn't have stopped the London July bombings of 2005. ID cards, it is plain, will not deter home-grown terrorists or suicide bombers who are quite happy for their names to be known once they have carried out their attacks for the obvious reason that martyrdom is pointless when it is anonymous. So when that didn't work, ministers stirred up fears about ID theft as the great scourge of modern society. Yes, it is a problem, but it is nowhere near as large as the government has been making out. In January, the Home Office published a report which said that ID theft cost the British public £1.7bn annually. It turned out that that figure included £395m for money laundering and £504m for the total loss of plastic cards. Thus the figure was exaggerated by a little under 50%.


As for saying a generalised stetement such as

You guys need to either adapt and embrace the idea that what's good for the government is good for the people in general


WOW, do you really believe that?



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 04:06 PM
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Perhaps this website can shed some light on what's next for the UK:

statebook.co.uk

Make sure you click the linkies.


[shamelessselfpromo] www.abovetopsecret.com... [/ssp]



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by kiwifoot
As for saying a generalised stetement such as

You guys need to either adapt and embrace the idea that what's good for the government is good for the people in general


WOW, do you really believe that?

Do I believe in the correctness of that idea? NO. But it does seem to be a theme that is 'assumed' in the statements of public officials, doesn't it? Examining why citizens don't object more to the assumption might be a good idea. Being as it's what everyone seems to be expected to swallow.

Now, as to whether what is good for the government should be exactly what is good for the people, that's a more in-depth philosophical and sociological discussion...



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by Ian McLean
 


Quote...
"What's with this disconnect over "privacy" in the UK?

You guys need to either adapt and embrace the idea that what's good for the government is good for the people in general, and correct any implementation flaws, or you need to confront and correct what is apparently an irreconcilable schism in your society.

Otherwise, it's a "war of incrementalism", and it's pretty obvious who is "winning". "




You're right, but the problem is that far too many people in th UK believe what the government tells them: "It'll cut crime/ Illegal Immigration/ Counter Terrorism/ Insert popularist cause here". Of course, it won't, but many people believe it. Then comes the classic line that the gullable spout "If you've got nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear". It makes my blood boil!


[edit on 16/5/09 by Insomniac]



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by Ian McLean
 


I see your point.

Although having any debate about government and officials at the moment could only lead down one avenue:

news.bbc.co.uk...



Calls to prosecute expenses MPs

There are growing calls for a police investigation into some of the MPs' expense claims revealed by the Daily Telegraph newspaper.

The TaxPayers' Alliance has complained to police about former minister Elliot Morley, who claimed £16,000 for a mortgage he had already paid off.

The campaign group has warned it would consider a private prosecution if the authorities fail to act.



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