Biblical Scholars study words in a book called the bible. Many come to the conclusion at times, that there are contradictory words, and seems to be a
contradiction in the very nature of this god.
If you read or study the Bible as a book, you will not see the hidden mysteries within His word. It was written that way on purpose.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
You must listen with your heart!
When reading the bible as a book, and not as a truly Living Word, it will read like a book with no meaning, just contradictory stories sometimes. To
me the living words within the Bible are the most incredibly supernatural thing I have ever experienced, and I have experienced much.
John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
And Peter, speaking of Paul the Apostle:
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned
and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
The Bible can be "book" as Bart Ehrman and many others have studied it to be, but to me the Bible can only truly be understood through Jesus, who is
the living word.
It is not good enough for the word of God to be only a book to be studied, you will miss the whole meaning of it. Its rather a life that he offers,
through Jesus speaking to you within those Words.
Anyway, that's what I believe and have experienced.
I don't care what his background is. I'm 25 and I'm a new Christian (Nov 2003) and I can prove his claims are false. One example is the claim that
the teaching of a triune God is found no where in scripture. That is a lie and you can find evidence of a triune God throughout the Old Testament.
Another claim about the way the apostles wrote about Jesus in their gospel accounts. Matthew was written with the Jewish audience in mind.
Anyone that has studied the scriptures even just for a little, and has the ability to think, will see that God is a triune God and that there are no
contradictions in the Holy Bible. We see the Father, Son and Holy Spirit at work in the creation. We read of physical appearances of the Lord to
different people in the Old Testament. Proverb 30, the wisdom of Agur speaks of God having a son.
Anyone that would believe this guy without doing the research is a fool.
Originally posted by freeyourmind1111
Interesting. Also to add to the conversation, the Codex Sinaiticus is a manuscript to be looked, at as it contradicts a lot of what the modern bible
we use today bible says. The Codex Sinaiticus is the oldest surviving, fully intact bible we have. It was stolen from the monks and Mt. Sinai by a
man named Constantin von Tischendorf in 1859. Some quick examples of the contradictions are...The Codex does not mention the Resurrection or
Ascension.The Codex has no mention of the "Father forgive them for they know not what the do" spoken from the cross and the codex does not mention
the story about the woman (Mary Magdalene)who was adulterous and going to be stoned. Those are just few inconsistencies to look at, there are more.
[edit on 15-5-2009 by freeyourmind1111]
Old does not make it right. It is hundreds of years after the events, and was written by a group of believers who were trying to undermine the
Hello. I never meant to imply that it made it right, I was just merely showing some inconsistencies compared to the bible we use today. I do agree
with you, I mean I question how accurate stories are when they were written hundreds of years after the said events.Cheers.
The problem with viewing the Bible as "the living word" instead of "just a book" is that that won't stand in a court of law. It's interpretive.
Most people, and ever moreso, need more tangibles upon which to base their lives/thinking. Either something is true or isn't.
Btw I disagree with the quotes on "debunks" in the thread title, but otherwise great job, OP.
Last time I went to a church I felt like I was at a Campaign/KKK rally. I never thought I would ever hear that kind of hate speech in a church ever. I
believe the christian church has been totally hijacked by politics/politicians and that makes it very scary. The one thing I realized from the last
sermon I attended was that I can see why the founding fathers wanted seperation of church and state. It was a really frakin strange service/rally.
P.S. It was the Four Square Gospel Church in Salem Oregon.
It's a matter of things being in their proper place. The way most people see and treat the bible is not putting the bible in it's proper place.
It is not "the word of god" as people treat it. Even if inspired by god, the word those who wrote them heard would be the actual word of god.
So when it's not in it's proper place, then things are out of wack.
If you build a house, then you need a foundation, walls and a roof. If you put the foundation above the roof, then the house is going to fall. It
didn't mean the foundation or roof are not important parts to the house, it means these things were not put in there proper places.
"The pharisees sit in the seat of moses". A reference to things not being in their proper place. People accept worldly authorities, and then
because of it they don't understand. Not just a religious problem either, but a human problem.
Thinking back on my experience with fundamentalism I'm disappointed in myself for having been taken in by a movement that serves as a catalyst for a
greater political agenda. (The last 8 years of the presidential administration bear this out, entirely.) Rife with dogmatic interpretation and
largely fulfilling earthly aims and control, rather than spiritual needs, it's teachings can easily be viewed in opposition to Jesus' core message
which is treating others well, caring for the less fortunate and putting others first. Somehow it's turned from this view to the ideal of personal
salvation which I view as wholly selfish and inconsistent with the most important of all the messages shared. The focus has narrowed to key issues
serving as touchstones while ignoring the underlying principles. Being created in God's image gives us the mandate to use our intellect to the best
of our ability rather than simply following a message that has been designed to serve those who seek control.
A key point: Many of the Old Testament parables are, in fact, adaptations or identical to the Sumerian creations tales and myths. Mankind's evolution
into monotheism merged the ancient gods into a single deity, and gave him an equal - but negative - counterpart. The devil.
The story of Jesus is similar to the Egyptian tale of Horus too. Christians will not accept this key point. In order to spread the new religion, the
founders just merged them in with other religions - reasons why Christian holidays are held on Pagan events.
In time, we will evolve further into a spiritual belief that will involve no god at all. Buddhist or Hindu style belief system will become the norm on
There are many ways to seek out the divine. Often this nature of divinity is overlooked in the bible due to the outstanding number of the people
placing attributes on the divine that Thee is not.
You wont know what the nature of God is through any book, only the divine within you can show you this nature. The biggest red flag in the Bible is it
tells people to not use their own understanding. Do you really think your creator would do that to us? Make us with a mind that seems wired for
spirituality but yet tell us not to use our logic???? People, get a back bone!!!
It is very scary to be raised in a belief but feel that there is a need to research the belief because this idea of needing research presents the
person as not having 'faith' in the Bible.
God left us a indestructible template of wisdom. It is the nature that wombs us and nurtures us. The Bible, although a great history book with some
misconceptions....misleads people from knowing the true nature of God. Do you people that believe in the Bible as gods word really think god would
contradict his own laws?? Well he does!!! He even sets the scene to where not only did we kill in the name of god in the OT....the play has a ending
of killing a man for a blood sacrifice. Those that accept blood for their sins will come back to another sphere of matter and flesh to relearn the
nature of god, as well as their own divine nature....which involves NO KILLING.
People wait on God to fix things and rebuke a leader who might speak of peace and world law and unity. People, this in itself holds mankind back!!!!
The world does need world law, world courts and a New Order. If we have millions rebuking this idea because the book says this is not to be done until
Christ returns, we will never achieve our purpose as a species.
It saddens me so many think of God as something that needs worshiped, who might be provoked to anger, who might loose hope and patients in those who
do not know what they do. The Elite and masses are deceived and the blood is on their hands as well as they have placed blood on gods hands in
believing that god needed anything or anyone to die.
Jesus was the highest spirit embodiment of a human. Why did he die?? Because just like today, people were not ready to hear or see. Why didnt Jesus
fight for his life?? Because truly, this is not the life to fight for. Jesus knew that by remaining righteous, he would open a new womb....his mind
complex is eternal and we can learn from other mind complexes...and sure enough, reaching out to this mind complex one will receive comfort, guidance
and wisdom. Not because he is a savior....or a final sacrifice...but because he remained righteous enough to make a kingdom. The Elite have
unknowingly for the most part misled the masses in seeking what makes God god and what divinity really is. Once the primal aspects were placed on god,
as Yahweh, the path of understanding gods nature leads to a dead end. You will relearn in another life. This is only what I have been shown and feel
free to assume Satan leads me *smiles* I have been prepared for this path and others not opening their ears.
If you think God needed blood for anything...you do not know Thee. There are many lower Aeons and emanations of Thee....do not be fooled that the
guidance you are receiving is of Thee most high, most perfect, most merciful and most consistent in Thee's orderly ways. The Bible teaches us two
natures, which is why I find it the best book on the Earth. If you go back and read the Bible from the point of view that God is love and only love,
you will see the primal god of the OT is something 'trying' to be god....it is using force and demands to get followers....it uses the energy of
death (spilling of blood) to dwell with our species. It even set a stage for endless wars and idea that there are special people and a special land.
The most high perfect one does not use such primal ways to reach us!!! Thee waits for us to seek and find....there is no force, there is no demands
for worship, there is no need of any blood spilling....you are worthy and loved!! It is up to each individual on how long it takes to let down the
walls of fear that orthodoxy has placed in the human mind and really truly seek Thee without outside thoughts of what God is. You will see beyond
doubt, God never killed babies, God never ordered any killings of any man, God is not going to come save the day but has given us what we need to do
this ourselves. We are divinity....God is waiting on us to claim this birth right Thee gave us and act like divine beings.
God can be found in all living things....this is the beauty....when the book was not around...people were still finding God....God made us with
reasoning, understanding and logic to discern the lies that was brought about Thee's nature.
Peace to all religions and likes of people...we have many levels of growth, dont let one book stop your seeking...there is more....much much more for
us to learn, discern and love. When one understands the nature of Thee...will is no more, one's will becomes divine order, Thee's nature becomes
The Christian church has followers who believe the teachings of the bible.
For those who do not accept that the Christian church is not the church - and not even the bible - rather the good teachings - then you would be a lot
better off being a humanist - studying philosophy, ethics, the wisdom of man which is all around you in spades but is denied to you by the church as
you will see an alternative path.
The church is unfortunately an inherently evil organisation, a profoundly corrupt, entity designed specifically as a means to power, control, wealth
and influence, this is exactly what it has always been - since its inception.
The historical record is abundantly clear on this, it is very well documented in every way - for those amongst you who have not travelled to Rome and
visited the Vatican first hand to see the kind of obscene wealth the church generates may I suggest you do.
Anyone who follows the church and its teachings is responsible for the promotion, continuation and therefore all of its evils - you may feel as though
you wish it were not so - but it is. You are responsible for the molesting of children at the hands institutionalised religion, for the inquisition,
for anything which you and your organisation are guilty of.
I just wanna see a Bible that from before the 500's
Even if it is a fake public debunking it will collapse all Abraham religions and anything connected to them not just Christianity
I have read Greek and Aramaic Bibles and a majority of the stuff is completely different. Most of the words can be translated into 3 or 4 different
words in English so you never know which one was meant to be used in the first place; anything in there is pure speculation unless we have someone
2010 years old that can verify some stuff.
In another 2009 years people will be questioning what we did today
To those of us Christians who have been in the realm of apologetics, Bart Ehrman isn't a new kid on the block, so to speak. I've heard about him
plenty of times.
His major problem, when he was an evangelical, was that he took the inerrentcy of Scripture too far. What I mean by this is that he believed that,
even in translations and subsequent copies of the originals, they were inerrent and contained no errors. Him believing this meant that as he studied
more and more, he would run across translation errors and copist errors and this rattled his faith and made him believe that it was all false.
Any theologian who believes in the inerrency of Scripture can tell you that inerrency only extends as far as the orignals. That doesn't mean that
what we have today isn't reliable. In fact, the Biblical manuscripts that we have today are more reliable than many works of antiquity that scholars
deem as trustworthy. This is because of the sheer number of manuscripts and fragments we have coupled with the time period that elasped between the
events in a particular book to the date of writing of that book. No other work of antiquity matches up to the Bible. Most of the "errors" that are
in the Bible are nonsense errors--errors that occured when a copist would put the wrong letter in or leave part of a letter off, making a new word.
Interestingly, none of these errors change any crucial doctrine in Christianity or Judaism.
I wonder why we don't here more about those former critics of the Bible who became Christian but so much about former Christians who became
This has gotten so interesting so I thought I would enter in my two cents worth.
In my opinion, if you take hell out of the equation with christianity in particular, the whole thing falls apart. Where is the fear? Where is the
And therefore, where is the control? Which to me is what it is all based on anyway. And hell IS out of the equation because it has been proven to
be a stolen idea by the church anyway.
And for those of you who choose to base their beliefs on faith alone, you don't need the bible for that. Because the bible is something you CAN
see. It is something you CAN touch. Therefore it is something that CAN be manipulated to serve a purpose or agenda, unlike your faith.
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