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Former Fundamentalist 'Debunks' Bible

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posted on May, 15 2009 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by xstealth
 




Most people are like that correct? If I have a girlfriend who is out whoring with other guys, I would get jealous, vain, and upset.


You mean you wouldn’t be happy you didn’t have to take her somewhere and she was managing to have a good time all on her own?




God has his children out worshiping other Gods, setting sin before him, and denying him.


I have trouble with my kids too, I feel for him really I do. They are always so cute when they are little!




We are made in his image, he is a jealous God; and just because he is the supreme being doesn't make him immune to emotions.


Or some pretty aggressive advertising.




There is a difference between reading the Bible, and reading it with understanding. If you use a Strong's Concordance you can break some words down to the original manuscript and get a whole different meaning, the way it was intended.


I understand exactly what Caesar intended it is called divide and conquer warfare.




The Bible is misinterpreted beyond belief, because most people won't take the time to actually study it.


Not only that they won’t take the time to study the period in history and context of the time it was created in by learning the non-Biblical version of history to better understand the relevance of it’s purpose and use.




Eve didn't eat an apple; there is no rapture, the earth isn't 6000 years old.


Those things give me a stomach ache too, I don’t blame her. I thought Beethoven did a good job displaying rapture. No it isn’t just me! Oh my aching back!




The Bible is a complete book, that has been mistranslated too often, making inconsistencies apparent.


I had a complete set of beautiful copper cookware; well until one day I saw they had a matching roasting pan too. Yes it was expensive addition but it went great from oven straight to table for really big meals. You get what you pay for.




posted on May, 15 2009 @ 10:39 PM
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Just to add something else.

Who cares if this guy is a respected big shot?

Their are many who have studied the Bible their whole lives and claim it to be true.


The fact is that nobody will know if Christianity is real or not until we die.Thats why most have FAITH that there is a God. They don't know but they have faith that there is one.
We can argue back and forth and talk about who said what and who is smarter then who. It doesn't matter.

If you are sure you know that there is a God or not, then you are lying to yourselves.

Unless of course you have absolute, irrefutable, without a shadow of a doubt proof. In that case please post it.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 10:48 PM
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Interesting. Also to add to the conversation, the Codex Sinaiticus is a manuscript to be looked, at as it contradicts a lot of what the modern bible we use today bible says. The Codex Sinaiticus is the oldest surviving, fully intact bible we have. It was stolen from the monks and Mt. Sinai by a man named Constantin von Tischendorf in 1859. Some quick examples of the contradictions are...The Codex does not mention the Resurrection or Ascension.The Codex has no mention of the "Father forgive them for they know not what the do" spoken from the cross and the codex does not mention the story about the woman (Mary Magadalene)who was adulterous and going to be stoned. Those are just few inconsistencies to look at, there are more. Cheers!

[edit on 15-5-2009 by freeyourmind1111]



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by jd140
Who cares if this guy is a respected big shot?

Their are many who have studied the Bible their whole lives and claim it to be true.


The fact is that nobody will know if Christianity is real or not until we die.Thats why most have FAITH that there is a God. They don't know but they have faith that there is one.
We can argue back and forth and talk about who said what and who is smarter then who. It doesn't matter.


This is a total copp out. Beliefs ought to be justified - faith is pointless.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by Welfhard
 



If you take the part you quoted and glue to the rest of my post it you might understand my point.

Remember, I said might



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by jd140
 


So you don't think we can make resonable, justifiable conclusions without absolute truths?



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by InfaRedMan
 


All I can tell you is that, if your soul is empty it is more likely that evil entities enter. Not that you are a bad person. I dont know you.

There are a lot of wealthy, successful, prosporous people in the world that are Agnostic and Athiests, however your description of yourself sounds more on the Athiest side, rather than Agnostic.

As Ive said before you wont see me throwing around Bible verses to try and convert you. I'm not that way.

I have a few friends and family members who also fit that description and are good people. Not in God's eyes though.



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by wonderworld
 


What does "soul = empty" mean?

[edit on 16-5-2009 by Welfhard]



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 12:15 AM
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reply to post by Welfhard
 


In this instance all we can do is speculate.

The simple reason is because no one can know until they die.

Nobody knows what happens when we die. We might be reincarnated, go to heaven, go to hell, go to another dimension or we might just cease to exist.

So yes, you need absolut proof to know for sure.



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 12:15 AM
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Originally posted by junglejake
What I find interesting is how many people say they've extensively studied the Bible and found it to be wrong, but when asked to stand up to someone else who has studied the Bible extensively, the examples disappear or the rebuttal ignores key points.

Even Ehrman appears not to attack the content, but instead attempts to discredit the books themselves (similar to what the OP asked us not to do -- don't go after the source, go after the content). I could be wrong; I haven't read the book and don't plan to.

Feel free to prove me wrong


Question. My virgin daughter has been raped. What is the morally acceptable thing to do with her?

Check your bible, and give me an answer.

Of course I already know the answer, I just want to see how you feel about the answer.



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by Welfhard
 


In this instance all we can do is speculate.

The simple reason is because no one can know until they die.

Nobody knows what happens when we die. We might be reincarnated, go to heaven, go to hell, go to another dimension or we might just cease to exist.

So yes, you need absolut proof to know for sure.


That's not what I said. Since absolute truth doesn't exist, we go with what is most reasonable. Science works on the premise of building knowledge to absolution, where absolute truth is the asymptote.

So we justify out positions with evidence and logic in place of absolute truth. I would argue that there is no justification for having faith, since faith is believing without evidence.



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 12:25 AM
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There are many different ways to study the Bible. I forget the names, but you can basically look at them from a historical perspective, an authorial perspective, a scientific perspective, a cultural perspective, a theological perspective, and so forth. There might be a few inconsistencies in one of more of the approaches, but if you synthesize all of your analysis, it provides a pretty coherent picture. I'm sorry, but I am friends with several Hungarian monks, some of whom are over 70 years old, who have devoted their lives to studying the origins and meanings of the Bible. Given a choice between trusting them, or this man, I'm going to go with them. There will always be those out there who hate Christianity, and I can't change that. I always question my faith, but I don't hate or reject it as many do in today's society. I think out of the whole world's population, there are maybe 10 or 5% that are true Christians, while the other
"Christians" are just ignorant and practical atheists, and thus give the religion a bad rap. Just like violent fundamentalist "Muslims" give Islam a bad name.



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 12:37 AM
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reply to post by Welfhard
 


And that is what I said.

Nobody can know for sure one way or the other.

To say that there isn't a God is to say that you know with absolute certainty.

To say that there is a God is to say that you know with absolute certainty.

People can try and debunk God all they want, but they lack the absolute truth in the matter, so they will never know for sure until they die.

Nobody has proof either way. All both sides can do is speculate.



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by jd140
People can try and debunk God all they want, but they lack the absolute truth in the matter, so they will never know for sure until they die.


I don't think people in this thread are trying to debunk god, but the bible is square in our sights.

But in the uncertainty that you point out, it seems illogical to take stance at either extreme.



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by Welfhard
 


As some see the Bible as the word of God, the arguement goes hand in hand.

The first step in debunking God is debunking the Bible.



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 01:45 AM
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Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by Welfhard
 


As some see the Bible as the word of God, the arguement goes hand in hand.

The first step in debunking God is debunking the Bible.


No, the undetermined god and it's existence are a completely separate matter. There are 10's of thousands of other theoretical deities, too you know. Even if you were to go through and debunk every single last one of them, the non-existence of a spiritual being would still be unproven and undebunkable.

However, the bible is book written and edited by man over a thousand years. It's trial is separate from gods.



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 01:48 AM
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Originally posted by Gawdzilla

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
The bible is an incredible book ...

Of all the extraordinary notions contained within, timeless teachings, wisdom, love, religion is the least of them.


Don't forget the genocide, misogyny, racism, homophobia, and arrogance.

Star for the OP, btw!


Let's take a few of these items:

Genocide. This is usually referring to the time when the Hebrews were under Joshua and entering the promised land across the Jordan River. God instructed the Hebrews to kill virtually everything...men, women, children, and their animals, and destroy their idols. Why would a loving God do that? For love. If God had let the idol worshippers and beastialists live, they would have corrupted his people. As it was, the Hebrews were having a hard enough time following Moses and Joshua. Death may be a big thing to you, but is was God's way of removing a cancer...like He did in the flood of Noah. Death is not a big thing to God, since He knows you'll still be alive. You don't know that, you don't have that faith, and so it is very disturbing to you. To you, death is the end of your life. You have a fear of death.

I don't see a hate for women. Culturally, the Hebrews treated their women better. In fact, later under Jesus new principles were taught about women that elevated their state in civilization forever.

Racism? Separation of cultures can allow for cultures to live and grow until they are socially mature enough to coexist. As far as mankind is concerned, they will always suspect others and label them, whether because of race or status. Sorta like Republicans vs. Democrats.

Homophobia? Fear of homosexuality? Homosexuality brought us AIDS. Anal intercourse brought us anal cancer. Homosexuality has been synonymous with promiscuity. The Bible fights for fidelity between two people. HPV is passed between promiscuous people, as is herpes, and over 50 other diseases. Let's take a look at one simple disease passed between people having sex with more than one person in their life: images.google.com...:en-US
fficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=venereal%20warts&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi Is it worth it, or should we follow the guidelines of the Bible and avoid these diseases. Can you imagine a world without venereal disease? About one in six or fewer people have some kind of venereal disease, and most are incurable. Who knows what the side effects are? Other non-venereal diseases lead to secondary problems. Chickenpox can lead to shingles later in life, for example. Who knows what herpes leads to later in life, perhaps liver problems. Perhaps many of the cancers we have today are related to venereal diseases or promiscuity.

Of all people, Christians should not be arrogant. God has repeatedly asked them to be humble and loving.



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 01:54 AM
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Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by Welfhard
 


And that is what I said.

Nobody can know for sure one way or the other.

To say that there isn't a God is to say that you know with absolute certainty.

To say that there is a God is to say that you know with absolute certainty.

People can try and debunk God all they want, but they lack the absolute truth in the matter, so they will never know for sure until they die.

Nobody has proof either way. All both sides can do is speculate.


Actually, you don't have proof. I do. In 1993, while in repentant prayer, I was taken in the spirit to the cross. www.carm.org... I posted that testimony many years ago, and am glad to see it is still online. Later, I was reading in John 14:21 where it says He will come to you and manifest Himself to you. I have seen Him face to face, and I know He lives and how much He loves me, and you. I know with absolute certainty.



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by Welfhard

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by Welfhard
 


As some see the Bible as the word of God, the arguement goes hand in hand.

The first step in debunking God is debunking the Bible.


No, the undetermined god and it's existence are a completely separate matter. There are 10's of thousands of other theoretical deities, too you know. Even if you were to go through and debunk every single last one of them, the non-existence of a spiritual being would still be unproven and undebunkable.

However, the bible is book written and edited by man over a thousand years. It's trial is separate from gods.


True, but like I said. Those who believe see the Bible as the word of God. An attack on the bible is seen as an attack on God.

Be honest. If the Bible is successfully debunked, where do you see the next step going?

If that Bible is debunked then the majority of Atheists will take the stand that since the Bible is proven wrong then that must mean that there isn't a God.

That is why I said that my arguement goes hand in hand.



posted on May, 16 2009 @ 02:05 AM
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Originally posted by Jim Scott

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by Welfhard
 


And that is what I said.

Nobody can know for sure one way or the other.

To say that there isn't a God is to say that you know with absolute certainty.

To say that there is a God is to say that you know with absolute certainty.

People can try and debunk God all they want, but they lack the absolute truth in the matter, so they will never know for sure until they die.

Nobody has proof either way. All both sides can do is speculate.


Actually, you don't have proof. I do. In 1993, while in repentant prayer, I was taken in the spirit to the cross. www.carm.org... I posted that testimony many years ago, and am glad to see it is still online. Later, I was reading in John 14:21 where it says He will come to you and manifest Himself to you. I have seen Him face to face, and I know He lives and how much He loves me, and you. I know with absolute certainty.


That is absolute proof to you.

But you can't prove that it happened. Besides that the Bible has stated that you cannot see the face of God and live.

You have nothing to show as proof except your own words. Which I'm sorry to say isn't absolute proof.





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