Former Fundamentalist 'Debunks' Bible

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posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 10:34 AM
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I know i"m coming into this late but I thought I'd throw my two cents in.

To really understand the Bible and the Judeo-Christian religions, and to understand their development and evolution you really must research other religions from that area, both ancient and contemporary (in terms of biblical times). You will clearly see the influence of other local religions and customs
and their adoption by the Judeo-Christians.

I firmly stand by the idea that if you do not understand other religions than you can never really understand your own religion.

I think it's funny that people are always spitting vitriol and saying "You can't question The Lorduh!!" Which is true, because the Judeo-Christian "God" is actually a demiurge, a lesser god/spiritual entity that is separate from the Creative Force that is everything and in everyone at all times.

Once you really begin to think about it it makes perfect sense, the demi-urge keeps us here on Earth, he created it to entrap us and to keep us in the dark as to the true nature of our continued oneness both with God and all creation. It explains why he is so jealous, quick to anger, petty and demanding.

It also explains we he requires blind, unquestioning faith in him and his commands.




posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by Shadowflux
 


I think you are describing Satan's role over earth through principalities and powers (The Fed, World Gov'ts, Goldman Sacks, JP Morgan, et al) In that case you are correct since Satan received 'dominion' over the earth after Adam's Fall. God's main message is not money and political Power, it is SACRIFICE. Most people like to talk about the money and power of the former and forget about the latter.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by Shadowflux
 


It also explains we he requires blind, unquestioning faith in him and his commands.


It's this concept that makes Christianity an evil religion. If a man gives up is rational and inquisitive mind then he'll never understand anything let alone know truth.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by Shadowflux
 


It also explains we he requires blind, unquestioning faith in him and his commands.


It's this concept that makes Christianity an evil religion. If a man gives up is rational and inquisitive mind then he'll never understand anything let alone know truth.


An in depth study of the Bible takes many, many years. You can get a PHD in it if you want to. So I think that statement misrepresents how God interacts with us. He encourages people to search Him out.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar
 


You could say that or you could say that it's a nonsensical book written by 44 authors over 1600 years and has had no divine influence at all. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John have unknown authors say biblical scholars, much of the old testament is scientifically wrong and some of the characters or fables are noticeably lifted from older religions.



posted on Jun, 19 2009 @ 05:06 AM
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Originally posted by The All Seeing I
Now before the bible-thumpers rush in and attack the messenger. Consider first, this man's background, vocation and journey; a best-selling author and a professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and a fixture on History Channel and Discovery Channel documentaries on Christianity. He's appeared on National Public Radio, CNN and the BBC... and his academic peers claim he is professing/sharing well established facts.


Being that this academic was once operating on blind faith and has since thoroughly studied the origins of the bible from a scholastic stand point... doesn't this make him more of an authority on the bible then any bishop, pastor or tv-evangelist?

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 15-5-2009 by The All Seeing I]

[edit on 18/6/2009 by Mirthful Me]


Wow, well if he has been on the BBC, CNN and National radio, the History Chanel and the Discovery chanel, then...why...ahem...then every word of what he says must be true especially if it has been on all these genuine most trusted media outlets.

Thanks for rescuing me from my delusion, I knew God, I mean well, the man in the moon led me here for a reason. Seek the truth and you will find it, wow its only taken me 42 years. Praise be to Evolution for the internet and televison and cnn for showing us the beautiful truth .
Im having a garage sale tomorrow, nah, a book burning....freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedoooooooooooooooooooom. Some of my best friends are deluded nut bars.

Thank you ATS



[edit on 19-6-2009 by Imago Dei]



posted on Jun, 19 2009 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar
 


Actually, the concept I'm referring to is much more gnostic and actually very ancient, much older than our modern notions of "Satan" and "Hell".

Now, don't take this personally, 'cause I know it will make you mad.

But the "Christian God" everyone worships is actually the evil force, the demi-urge.

I've spent A LOT of time reading the Bible and I am completely convinced that organized Christianity, as we know it today, is very much evil and designed mostly with the intent of twisting the words of God, fabricating false ideas concerning the true words and nature of God, and subjugating those who would otherwise be searching for "the way, the truth and the light".

What you really want is called "Gnosis", the knowing or total understanding of God and the universe.

Now remember, I said not to get mad at me



posted on Jun, 19 2009 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by Shadowflux
 


Shadowflux,

The demiurge ...Demiurgos a very ancient doctrine and principle.

Comes in many variations from many cultures....even in hermeneutics.

All sorts of theories and statements....but it all amounts to ...

"all gods are the same god" "all religions are the same religion." Nothing new here.

as to this here..


It also explains we he requires blind, unquestioning faith in him and his commands.


Since you know so much about other religions...than you also know why mothers and fathers would sacrafice there first born to the gods of these religiions. They would give thier children to the priesthood who would in some religions cut out thier still beating hearts and offer them up to the sun gods. On the hills in the daytime and sometimes at night in the valleys.
This takes alot of blind obedience on the part of parents.

I believe you like many others count on the concept that many out here know little history. You would be correct about most peoples but not all of us. Also..many of these cultures were into drugs in association with thier religions and religious practices...or sorcery/Pharmakia...from which we get our word today..pharmacy..or drugs. Not accidental. Nothing new going on here.

reply to post by Welfhard
 


Welfhard,

Think about this quote of yours...


If a man gives up is rational and inquisitive mind then he'll never understand anything let alone know truth.


Be very careful what you think is a rational and inquisitive mind. Notice how rational Shadowflux appears in their statements ...until one learns a bit of history which has not totally been covered up and hidden...especially about the other religions out there.

I will show you this here about rational thinking by quoting you..


much of the old testament is scientifically wrong and some of the characters or fables are noticeably lifted from older religions.


Why would someone who is into rational thinking and analytic ability ..use science to pass judgement on a book of Faith. The book is not intended to be a scientific treatise but one of Faith. Now that doesnt make good nonsense or even logic. One has to go to school to get this silly. Thinking people are not this silly.

One could even go so far as to say...by the rationale of some posters ...that they were attempting to pass science off as the new religion. Now that doesnt even make good nonsense. It even seems rationale until one thinks it through. Ive seen lawyers use this kind of thinking to confuse peoples. It looks good until one thinks it through. In the Bible..the Pharisees used this same tack unitl one catches on and thinks it through. It too doesnt make good nonsense...once you know how to spot the pattern of nonsense attempting to pass or default through as the moral/ethical high ground.

The Bible is not a scientific treatise. It is a book to the Faithful.
Science is not a religion...complete with priesthood.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 12:02 AM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


I never said it was new, nor did I ever pretend that I could explain it all in about 3 lines. However, I'm not wrong in my assumption that most people know little of history :p

While I don't endorse the use of drugs in accordance with the ATS rules I don't completely discount them from a spiritual experience.

I rather endorse magic and mysticism as it has worked better for me than a million rosaries.

I know what I believe and I'm sticking to it.



posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by Shadowflux
reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar
 


Actually, the concept I'm referring to is much more gnostic and actually very ancient, much older than our modern notions of "Satan" and "Hell".

Now, don't take this personally, 'cause I know it will make you mad.

But the "Christian God" everyone worships is actually the evil force, the demi-urge.

I've spent A LOT of time reading the Bible and I am completely convinced that organized Christianity, as we know it today, is very much evil and designed mostly with the intent of twisting the words of God, fabricating false ideas concerning the true words and nature of God, and subjugating those who would otherwise be searching for "the way, the truth and the light".

What you really want is called "Gnosis", the knowing or total understanding of God and the universe.

Now remember, I said not to get mad at me


Are you are aware that the G in the masonic order logo stands for Gnosis? Dont get mad, but this is all mystery school bunkem that is enjoying a resurgence thanks to illuminati shills like tsarion and maxwell. William Cooper (who was murdered by the US government for exposing this stuff)has abely and adequatley refuted and proven where this idea stems from and that all of it has been stolen from biblical Christianity and perverted. It is luciferian satanic doctrine, but if you are suitabely deluded as it appears you are, Im sure you are worshipping both of these entities under the illusion that they are the good guys. Good luck to you, you going to need it.



posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 01:32 AM
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Originally posted by Shadowflux
reply to post by orangetom1999
 


I never said it was new, nor did I ever pretend that I could explain it all in about 3 lines. However, I'm not wrong in my assumption that most people know little of history :p

While I don't endorse the use of drugs in accordance with the ATS rules I don't completely discount them from a spiritual experience.

I rather endorse magic and mysticism as it has worked better for me than a million rosaries.

I know what I believe and I'm sticking to it.


There is nothing "wrong" pre say with what you believe. Evidently the devil had the power and athourity to offer Jesus Christ the whole world if he would only bow down and worship him. Satan can and will bless you with magical powres to manifest things. I post this only so that you will consider who and what it is that is granting you these powers. It is real I don't deny it. Pharmacea IE drugs, is a well known tool for ushering in satanic powers. Just be carfeul, satanic power will always hurt you in the end, he is not your friend, he hates humanity and God and the truth and has the power to manifest himself as angel of light.



posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 01:37 AM
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reply to post by Imago Dei
 


Actually, gnosticism is much older than freemasonry, unless you're referring to the Masonic concept that they go back to ancient Egypt.

Allow me to....illuminate the subject ( i couldn't resist, sorry)


Gnosticism (Greek: γνῶσις gnōsis, knowledge) refers to diverse, syncretistic religious movements in antiquity consisting of various belief systems generally united in the teaching that humans are divine souls trapped in a material world created by an imperfect god, the demiurge; this being is frequently identified with the Abrahamic god, and is contrasted with a superior entity, referred to by several terms including Pleroma and Godhead[1]. Depictions of the demiurge - the term originates with Plato's Timaeus[2] - vary from being as an embodiment of evil, to being merely imperfect and as benevolent as its inadequacy permits. Thus, broadly speaking, Gnosticism was a dualistic religion, influenced by and influencing Hellenic philosophy, Judaism (see Notzrim), and Christianity


And as to it's age:


Whereas formerly Gnosticism was considered by some a heretical branch of Christianity, it now seems clear that traces of Gnostic systems can be discerned some centuries before the Christian Era. [10] Gnostic sects may have existed earlier than the First Century BCE, thus predating the birth of Jesus.[11] The movement spread in areas controlled by the Roman Empire and Arian Goths (see Huneric), and the Persian Empire; it continued to develop in the Mediterranean and Middle East before and during the Second Century and Third Centuries. Conversion to Islam and the Albigensian Crusade (1209–1229) greatly reduced the remaining number of Gnostics throughout the Middle Ages, though a few isolated communities continue to exist to the present.


That is all from our favorite free encyclopedia.

Sort of puts all this constant veneration stuff in a different light, surely an imperfect god would demand that he be told how perfect and wonderful he is at every chance.

Why else would it say: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me, for I am a jealous god"

Jealous of what? People worshiping the true, perfect and divine God perhaps?

You can't honestly tell me that the "God" of the Old Testament is a perfectly infallible god. He seems much more human, and we are "made in his image" and are we not imperfect?

Don't be so quick to dismiss.



posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 01:47 AM
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reply to post by Imago Dei
 


Look at it this way:

The Bible states that Jesus told us we would receive the Holy Spirit and with that we will receive powers beyond those of normal men. Only through the preforming of proper ritual and incantation (prayer and the mass) can we receive the powers of the Holy Spirit.

You say that Satan has the power to appear as an "angel of light", thus the great father of deception can appear to a mortal in any form he might wish. Logically this infers that Satan could appear to a mortal in the form of the savior, teach him proper ritual and incantation and then grant him powers beyond that of normal men.

Then how are you to know that this Jesus you worship was not the Satan in disguise?

I do believe that it is you, and not I that are worshiping Satan. (Please take no personal offense)

There is no difference between Jesus and Satan/Lucifer because Lucifer is the demiurge, the imperfect god and the god of the Earth and creation.

Jesus truly is the son of god and is one with god but that god is the demiurge, the god of the Earth.



posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 10:00 AM
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reply to post by Shadowflux
 



However, I'm not wrong in my assumption that most people know little of history :p


I did not say you are incorrect in that most people know so little history. I am myself often stating the same. My point is that this is not all of us out here or out here on ATS.
Most people out here in fact know very little history. They do in fact know more about the latest scores/point spread..or the latest gadget or widget to come across the boob tube. Even Christians/Believers often know very little history...even Bible history. Astonishing but true. I often spend more time debating Believers than do I non believers because of this very ignorance.

As to Gnosis..or wisdom...there are two types of wisdom. The Wisdom of God granted to His people by His Grace and Spirit. And then there is the wisdom of this world.

To know and understand much concerning these two concepts of thinking...one must also know about Occult principles and how counterfeits work. Occult meaning concealed...hidden...covert verses open and overt. Even Esoteric.

As a result of my study of History ...counterfeits is a concept onto which I have stumbled long before understanding the importance of it.

God's logic and reason...Wisdom is often very different from man's logic reson and wisdom..gnosis.
What a Believer learns quckly, once the pattern of operation is understood, is that the operation is often to tie all religions into the same religion by implying or impuning that they are all from the same source or that one copied from the other ...hence the same pattern.

This is often embodied by a concept called the Prisca Theologia. That all religions have a same origin ..a very similar pattern...hence they are all the same religion. Now by logic and reason of men we can now combine them or take steps to combine them and go on to the next reasonable logical step in behavior based on this new understanding.

This reason is often embodied by philosophy into the principles expoused by GFW Hegel......thesis, antithesis, synthesis. A statement or theory..its opposite and then the compromise of the two in to the new template...the synthesis. It makes perfect logic or reason MR Spock...it is just that it is often rubbish.

This is however very often how the religion of politics works...create a thesis ..then the antithesis and create new laws regulations and controls to steer this new crisis by logic and reason into the new synthesis.

We know this is true about the body politic being a religion by the very devoutness and zealousness of its adherents. The problem with politics is that because of the very Occult nature of it ..being able to spot and identify the Priesthood of this religion. Hence it is very easy to impose a counterfeit on an uneducated, unwary, and unknowledgable public.

Politics is an occult religion because most of its workings are hidden from those it intends to control....by gnosis. Common sense..not gnosis will confirm this.

Imago Dei has the pattern down pretty well...very nicely done Imago Dei.
Very nice handle you use on the boards as well. Image of God. Well done.


Actually, gnosticism is much older than freemasonry, unless you're referring to the Masonic concept that they go back to ancient Egypt.


In certain Masonic and Eastern writings they will tell you that their dogmas, diciplines, and teachings go back to the Garden of Eden. I happen to think that they are correct and not kidding about this.

The important thiing to understand is not how olde is the pedigree of Freemasonry ..but how olde is the actual dogma itself on which Freemasonry and Gnosis are both founded?? The very pattern of this type of operation/thinking/logic/gnosis.

I often look for patterns of operation..how and why things work...in relation to history and other templates...patterns. I am a fruit inspector.

By thier fruits ye shall know them.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by Shadowflux
reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar
 


Actually, the concept I'm referring to is much more gnostic and actually very ancient, much older than our modern notions of "Satan" and "Hell".

Now, don't take this personally, 'cause I know it will make you mad.

But the "Christian God" everyone worships is actually the evil force, the demi-urge.

I've spent A LOT of time reading the Bible and I am completely convinced that organized Christianity, as we know it today, is very much evil and designed mostly with the intent of twisting the words of God, fabricating false ideas concerning the true words and nature of God, and subjugating those who would otherwise be searching for "the way, the truth and the light".

What you really want is called "Gnosis", the knowing or total understanding of God and the universe.

Now remember, I said not to get mad at me


You crack me up.
Nothing you can say is going to anger me in any way. If you really want to know how I 'feel', its more like 'do I even have time to respond to this guy ?'. That's why most of my posts on this board are as short and to the point as possible. I really don't have the time to educate every person I run across on the internet.

Now, if you read the Bible so much, then you know that In the Beginning there was God. So how exactly does gnosis pre-date God? No, gnosis is satans little trick to make you think you are getting in on 'secrets'. The reason you feel the need to participate in this is the fact that you don't like God's ways and therefore are willing to believe anything that vindicates your disobedience. The good news is you're not alone. We're all in the same boat and once we realize that, then we can accept God's free gift of Salvation. I'll let you in on the biggest Secret of all time, pssst.. There are no Secrets, God spelled it out for you very clearly.

See, the Truth is like if I had a perfectly straight stick behind my back and asked you to describe it. No problem right. Now if I tell you I have a crooked stick behind my back and ask you for a description it will be impossible for you to desribe. That's gnosis and anything else that takes away from the simplicity of Salvation through God's Sacrifice.

As far as 'organized' christianity, I don't at all disagree that it has been turned on its head by Men and Culture and Satan in many instances. But not all! At the core of many is still the simple Truth of Reconciliation with our Creator through His Sacrifice for us. Remember that DECEPTION is the enemies main purpose and then ask yourself what could possibly be wrong with accepting a free gift from your Creator?



posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 02:25 PM
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The biggest secret is that one doesnt need a book to understand God or know God.

Isnt that something....one can find God without a book...without a material item....one can find Thee without even reading one single word of the book.

One can find Thee through the Spirit of life....that rests in each and every one of us as well has filled everything here with life.

God is greater then what any book can relay. The purpose for us being in this life would be defeated if all the answers lay in a book. We are to seek and discern...we are here learning about the differences in good and bad...light and dark...spirit and flesh.

People have stopped seeking...they are not discerning...they are so caught up in assuming they have truths and they clinch their fists around it so tight as if God didnt already make this world in a way for us to find what we need without a material object.



posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar
 


There is something very wrong with the gift you speak of...the energy that emanates from this thought is that God requires a killing...a blood letting....for any reason.

God is greater then that...God only needs your honest thoughts...your will to seek Thee. God is greater then all of those past beliefs of sacrificing. The thought that Jesus had to die is wrong. He chose to die to show us this was not the life to fight for...came as an example to a humble life lived for others.

These are thing one can learn from the Spirit...be shown the nature of what 'divine' and holy really mean.



posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


Disobedience does have a penalty. It must or else there is chaos. As you stated, take a lesson from the world around you. What happens if children are not taught that there are penalties for disobeying their elders. What happens if criminals are not penalized for their disobedience to societies (which are based on God's) laws?

Yes, Christ chose to accept that penalty, which was Death. Which, as you stated, was only the Death of this world. And, far worse, a temporary separation from God.

Who are you to dictate to God how the penalty was to be worked out? The fact that it was worked out should have all of us rejoicing in that fact, not sitting around second guessing how our bonds were broken.



posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar
 


I dont dictate nothing to God.

I followed the book for many years, I gained much knowledge from it yet....but the Holy Spirit has shown me things no book could ever show me.

Funny thing is...God doesnt dictate either...we see ourselves with a divine eye...in this moment we know our wrongs and rights, we know what could be done different, we see how the environment of the physical world effected us. God also knows how this physical world can effect and mislead.

God will walk right beside...not in front...God will knell with us, not stand before us...God is with us...not above or outside of.

I am only a voice...and if the message does not resonate with you then by all means...disregard my words please. I tell everyone to seek it for themselves but most cant feel worthy enough to think the Spirit is waiting to show them things. The idea of a dictating God doesnt allow a person to reason or understand. They await to be told...what to believe.

I can only advise to seek and discern natures....for there is a nature that is divine and does not want us to fear, feel unworthy or feel alone.

I could say the same about followers of a book...do they not dictate how God will act and think? They surely do and do it because they think they have truth. My words are no different...but my voice comes from a message of life...not a object.

I still read it, study it...I love the Bible...it is full of history. To understand where faith is now...one needs to study many histories and cultures.



posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 03:41 PM
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And about chaos...this is not a mistake that we have chaos here, it is a natural law of physical worlds. What one perceives as a chaos is a order for another.

Many believe that we experience bad things because someone was bad in the first place. Its not so though. This experience is supposed to be dark and light...yin and yang. Often, the light comes through the forest of trees. Often a catalysts leads or provides the opportunity for a spiritual growth or adjustment.

This world is perfect in how it is to be...I know that is hard to accept...but like I said before, if that doesnt resonate with you...then disregard it. I push nothing as truth...but tell others they can seek the Holy Spirit and learn about the nature of God.





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