Former Fundamentalist 'Debunks' Bible

Heh, funny, more debunkers.

Personally I'm agnostic, and I only decided to read some bits of the bible for various reasons:
o The South African version sounds really REALLY funny in my ears (I'm Dutch, South African sounds like an immigrants way of talking dutch)
o Some of the story in relevation looks pretty cool. (Though nothing beats ragnarok).

Oh well, guess we'll wait for other people to try and disprove his claims of forgery.

[edit on 15/5/09 by -0mega-]

I think there will be more and more people losing faith because of people like this and shows shown on discovery channel and history channel and news channels. In the end even the elect will be decieved if that's possible and what a better way to do so than have bible scholars and TV tell us what the bible" really means" or "what really happened" or "who really killed Jesus". The only way to tear people from their faith is to try to "prove it wrong" because faith is believing in something that there is no proof of. Sooooo, bible scholars and researchers and TV shows try to "prove" that the bible isn't real and God doesn't exist and these people are real and the schools they went to are real and the research they did was real so their conclusions muct be real so poeple believe what they say and turn from thier faith.
People don't realize that all it takes is faith. We can't prove anything, we never will be able to. Faith is what people lack and I for one will not lose mine.
Please don't bash me, I am just giving my opinion like everyone else.

Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by The All Seeing I

 

Some of us will be judged on our works. I certainly wouldnt want to be Ehrman, when the time comes.

End times prophecy predicts people like this coming forward. It's part of the plan.

The last verse in the bible says "No man shall add to or take away from this book" dont quote me on that but it seems Ehrman took about 17 chapters out.

Did you totally just miss the boat on this one or are you simply that blissfully ignroant? Which is it?

Cause this guy was a fundamental christian, as hardcore as they come. He then did something called research and through research and NOT blind faith, he realized that what he had been told was fraudulent.

Now, when you say that something is fraudulent that implies that it is not fact, and thus shouldn't be taken seriously.

So then, as he went most of his life as a fundamentalist, then realized the truth of the matter, why would he be afraid of the boogie man talked about in a book he knows is fiction? I love how the you can always find a bible thumper who has a verse that always has the solution to every factual argument. People like this will come forward? Ya they are called people who aren't absolutely ignorant, and following a fraudulent book as if written in stone.


The greatest irony of your quote "No man shall add to or take away from this book" is that the entire bible is either fabricated, or copied from older texts with new updated names.

OH NOES THE WORLD IS ENDIGN!! QUICK NOHM BUILD A BOAT, STEVE GET BUILDING THE CAGESS ILL GO ROUND UP EVERY ANIMAL!!!!!!

THE EARTH IS ONLY 6000 YEARS OLD, THE DEVIL THREW ALL THOSE 65 MILLION YEAR OLD FOSSILS IN THE GROUND TO TEST OUR FAITH!!!

That fact alone, that the bibles says the earth to be 6000 years old, has been shattered thousands of times by thousands of people proving there was alot of things going on on earth, 6000,60000,600000,6000000 years ago.

Come on, even as a kid in church even I could see the absolute ignorance that goes into 'faith'. As an adult, its clear as day. There was an excuse for being so blissfully ignorant thousands of years ago, but come on people its 2009 and you can learn anything about anything with the click of a mouse. Do some research and you'll find your good book has more holes in it than a strainer.

Also, take note of the religion topic highlights in my signature. Those are real threads, from intelligent Christians.



[edit on 15-5-2009 by king9072]

[edit on 15-5-2009 by king9072]

What I find interesting is how many people say they've extensively studied the Bible and found it to be wrong, but when asked to stand up to someone else who has studied the Bible extensively, the examples disappear or the rebuttal ignores key points.

Even Ehrman appears not to attack the content, but instead attempts to discredit the books themselves (similar to what the OP asked us not to do -- don't go after the source, go after the content). I could be wrong; I haven't read the book and don't plan to.

Feel free to prove me wrong

Originally posted by concerned190
People don't realize that all it takes is faith.

Or, in the other words, all it takes is to sacrifice your free thought.

To exchange it for the promise of everlasting life ...

Is it really worth it ?

For those who find idea of everlasting life the most important thing in their life, ever, (which is IMO based in fear of perishing forever) it certainly is ...

I feel that it must be a really a terrible feeling never really knowing did you do enough to get your ticket to heaven or not

You know I came to the exact conclusion as the OP, props for him!

Anyone who is able to read the Bible and balance their emotional faith with intelligent reason will come to the same conclusion. Anyone can take a quick moment to Google the information, walk to the library, or go to their local bookstore to find loads of information on the historical inaccuracies, plagiarism, and contradictions rampant in the Bible.

That being said:

What Jesus taught, regardless of his assumed divinity, was amazing. He taught universal lessons and truths that all people should live by. The Old Testament, Paul's New Testament, and Revelations? You should pretty much take all of that with several grains of salt.

I also believe that the Vatican has, in their vast and secret library, multiple Gospels and writings about Christ that predate many of the NT books that completely destroy the Church's power and the "Paulian" Christianity that has for centuries infested and hidden the truth about Christ, his teachings, and the early Church.

Edit to add: I'm sorry, but any deity that says "I gave you free will" is cool and everything. But to claim to have given us free will and then threaten us with eternal suffering and torment if we don't follow him exactly as he says is kind of a cop out on the whole thing, isn't it? It's like your father holding a knife to your throat and saying, "You can keep your wallet if you want, but if you don't give it to me I'm going to kill you. By the way, I love you!"

So do you really have a choice?

[edit on 15-5-2009 by Avenginggecko]

reply to post by 5thElement


No, I have free thought, I question things I have heard and or read, I choose how to live my life and the things I do. I have many many important things in my life and sometime my faith is not the strongest thing. But its always there. I am not afraid of perishing forever and there is nothing you have to do enough of to get to heaven except believe one simple thing.

Originally posted by 5thElement
I feel that it must be a really a terrible feeling never really knowing did you do enough to get your ticket to heaven or not

I agree completely! That's one of the biggest misunderstandings people who don't know the Bible have about its content -- that it's all about works, do this, do that, earn a ticket into Heaven. It's not! At least, according to the Bible it's not. Check out Romans 4 for a far better job of both tying the God of the Old Testament to the God of the New Testament (Acts 7 also does this quite well in Stephen's speech to the Sanhedrin) as well as explaining that it is not by works we are saved. Actually the entire book of Romans does a phenomenal job of explaining that.

[edit on 5/15/09/15 by junglejake]

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
The bible is an incredible book ...

Of all the extraordinary notions contained within, timeless teachings, wisdom, love, religion is the least of them.

That's the thing.

So many people are either on one side or the other. I too see the beauty in the Bible. I love to study many of the philosophies and legends of ancient folks. And it's truly the power of myth which has formed many of our cultures, and it's amazing to see that as well. And the love that can be found in such books as Song of Solomon are also amazing.

I see no reason to dismiss any teachings of the bible out of hand. Specifically because it tells the story of a man so great he was referred to as the Son of God, who in a time when everyone had turned religion towards measuring eachother and oppressing eachother, brought a message of love and an axial philosophy which allows you to form a symbiotic relationship with people foreign to you in spite of what your differences might be.

This is a far cry from what Christianity has become today, or many other world religions for that matter. We could use a modern version of Axial philosophy in todays world.

As you mentioned, the religion is the least of what is of value in the Bible. I could care less if it's completely made up... if so its a great fable with lots to offer humanity, as are most texts of a spiritual nature, when taken in context.


Keep in mind, this comes form someone who feels they have been liberated from a religion (Christianity) which doesn't belong to them historically. As per my signature.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by concerned190
No, I have free thought, I question things I have heard and or read, I choose how to live my life and the things I do.

Questioning things, but yet staying on the current path, is not what free thought is all about.

Free thought is about ability to abandon or change the path at will without ever looking back ...

Everything else is less then freedom and more like slavery

reply to post by The All Seeing I


I have found most priests that I have disused the Bible with knew very much the history of it.. not just from a religious perspective. To be a priest is more then being elected by the congregation, or starting your own church. you have to study in dept Theology, I knew two priest who where Theology majors and then decided to become priests.. they study all religions. Not saying all priests and bishops etc are like this, but I find Catholic clergymen to be more down to earth in regards to religion.

I will have to check out his book though.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I've had similar experiences with Methodist clergy. They've been honest about the bibles history with me. I always respected that. Got a great book from one of them by Paul Tillich. Now he's got an interesting story.

Anyway... the point is, that type of honesty started me on the path toward my own destiny, as a mystic, occultist, and philospher and I thank them all for it.

I have a deep relationship with my subjective experience, and I owe a lot of it to the clergy along the way.

I'll never forget the Episcopal Priest who taught me Zen Sitting.



[edit on 15-5-2009 by HunkaHunka]

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Define honest. What did he say? What did he share that convinced you that it was true beyond a shadow of doubt and start you on your path?

reply to post by HunkaHunka


hehe, a priest started you on your way to occultism.

I can say the same thing. Some of the priests in my parish where younger (late 20's), I think that is the biggest reason as to their open-mindedness..

All in all what it came down to: Perhaps the Bible is not the direct "Word of God" but the morality taught, and the personal expectations you can take from the stories inside it are the path to righteousness and spiritual wholeness. What I take from this is that be it Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, the core teachings are all the same, the stories built around the teachings are different and reflect that specific culture the religion is raised in.. Everyone looking for the Truth, the higher being or energy that is greater than ourselves, that which we feel but cannot explain. The one constant throughout all religions is the notion of a higher being/plane, and the morality of right and wrong.

reply to post by Rockpuck

Picking up where Bible expert Bart Ehrman's New York Times bestseller Misquoting Jesus left off, Jesus, Interrupted addresses the larger issue of what the New Testament actually teaches—and it's not what most people think. Here Ehrman reveals what scholars have unearthed:

* The authors of the New Testament have diverging views about who Jesus was and how salvation works

* The New Testament contains books that were forged in the names of the apostles by Christian writers who lived decades later

*Jesus, Paul, Matthew, and John all represented fundamentally different religions

* Established Christian doctrines—such as the suffering messiah, the divinity of Jesus, and the trinity—were the inventions of still later theologians

These are not idiosyncratic perspectives of just one modern scholar. As Ehrman skillfully demonstrates, they have been the standard and widespread views of critical scholars across a full spectrum of denominations and traditions. Why is it most people have never heard such things? This is the book that pastors, educators, and anyone interested in the Bible have been waiting for—a clear and compelling account of the central challenges we face when attempting to reconstruct the life and message of Jesus.

Just added to my very long list of books to check out from the library.

I have to tell you, this topic brings we back to fond undergrad memories... and i find myself ironically thanking "god" for the requirements imposed upon me, otherwise i would be as ignorant as the majority of people in the bible belt. If it wasn't for me having to take a hand-full of philosophy and religion courses i could very well see myself being a bible-thumper. For those who assume that i am being facetious in this claim, i am a product of the largest catholic university on the planet. For those who care enough to take a look... note the heart at the very center of the university's emblem... yes i believe in love... while at the same time only give jesus Philosopher Status... but also make note of our mascot (lmao) and while you are at it google norman finklestein &/or check him out on my Advocacy for the "Self-Hating-Jew"... which FYI i never was fortunate enough to attend one of his classes, found out about him long after i graduated.

While i'm at it... i want to extend a heart-felt thank you to everyone for their input thus far... pro and con... this is a very important topic for me and every one of you have raised my awareness.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by The All Seeing I]

reply to post by junglejake


There were many clergy along the way. They shared what they had learned both at seminary and in life. Some of the things they shared with me that they learned in seminary was the symbology of the Bible, and what certain things meant/represented in certain times or writing styles. These were keys to understanding specific elements.

Other things were of the historical nature of the gospels and how some were originally written in greek and not all by authors they were named after. They taught me how to see Christianity as a human tradition and how to benefit from its study and practice. They also taught me to find the same benefits from other traditions, and how that is not necessarily something that everyone should do, but for others it is.

And in the case of the Episcopal Priest who taught me how to perform Zen Sitting, he introduced me to the writings of Tich Nhat Han on Mindfulness. He also introduced me to the writings of Thomas Merton, who in turned introduced me to the writings of Meister Eckhart, and Thomas Aquinas. This same priest also introduced me to the concepts behind ACOA (Adult Children of Alcoholics) and gave me many keys with which I was able to unlock many of the doors in my mind.

In another case, it was a Methodist Minister in Davidsonville MD, which gave me my first copy of Paul Tillich's "Systematic Theology" in which he draws the distinction between a theologian and a philosopher of religions and how the former operates in a smaller circle than the latter, and yet they can be the same person, but he/she must know in which capacity they are working before setting out on a project.

Christianity is where I started. It was with wonderful guides as these, that my life has been a beautiful journey, one which is not limited by belief. One that has brought me a life Miracularum Magnarum.

Free thought is about ability to abandon or change the path at will without ever looking back ...

reply to post by 5thElement


I wouldn't think it wise to totally abandon all learned things, that would be like a ship on the ocean with no reference to land. I believe one must have a reference point or else wander off into insanity.

My personal belief is what many here have said; Religion is man's response to Truth, our nature is to manipulate and control others, so we turn freedom offered to us into bondage for the next guy. All that has nothing to do with the Truth offered by our Creator.

I believe the Truth is so simple a child can understand it, and I believe thousands of denominations of Christianity is what happens when adults get involved.

I believe true leaders lead by example. The claim that my Creator would make a huge Sacrifice for me strikes me as the One I want to follow. As stated before, there is no ambiguity, no guessing, you accept the Sacrifice and you're Saved! I fail to see anything negative in that.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I haven't found the core to be all the same actually. You can attempt to interpret one in the terms of another if it helps to understand, but ones understanding will be tainted by the original cosmology, leading to a false syncretism.

For me, it's like learning a second language. At first, we translate in our minds one language into our native language, but when one becomes fluent, you no longer require the original language for interpretation but are operating fully inside of the second language. Which although similar to the first, is wholly different.

reply to post by breakingdradles

Christians are already a minority in the world, and becoming fewer and fewer each year.

Not a minority according to the chart updated 2007
www.adherents.com...

It is the largest percentage.

reply to post by 5thElement


I do have the ability to change my current path but I choose not to. I also do not feel like a slave to my beliefs.