Former Fundamentalist 'Debunks' Bible

Originally posted by Hemisphere
reply to post by The All Seeing I

 

Informative thread I. This is the first I'd heard of Bart Ehrman. I recently discovered another formerly religious writer, Robert M. Price. Looks like I've got some good reading ahead.

Serendipity, i haven't heard of Price... thank you for the reference. From a quick preview of his work, i see some very interesting research.

In books like The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man and Deconstructing Jesus, Price challenges Biblical literalism and argues for a more skeptical and humanistic approach to Christianity. He questions the idea of a historical Jesus; in the documentary The God Who Wasn't There, Price supports a version of the Jesus myth, suggesting that the early Christians adopted the model for the figure of Jesus from the popular Mediterranean dying-rising saviour myths of the time, such as that of Dionysus. He argues that the comparisons were known at the time, as early church father, Justin Martyr had admitted the similarities. Price suggests that Christianity simply adopted themes from the dying-rising god stories of the day and supplemented them with themes (escaping crosses, empty tombs, children being persecuted by tyrants, etc.) from the popular stories of the day in order to come up with the narratives about Christ.
...
Price runs a website, TheBibleGeek.org, that in addition to offering a number of his writings, also allows people to listen to audio recordings of a broadcast show that he runs that allows people to "ask the Bible Geek" questions that he will answer. The site also has a number of user oriented features that let people participate with him and with one another online.
...
Price is, since 1994, the editor of The Journal of Higher Criticism.

source: en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 18-5-2009 by The All Seeing I]

i think this thread over looks the necessity for compassion, the need for
learning about our spiritual selves, emotion, love, because in the final wash, if there's not an omnipotent, omnipresent judge of the people, there is no justice, no love and no reason but a temporary cycle of consumption. and that simply will not do. in my view of the universe, there's a marvellous new life for the downtrodden, the weak, the mentally and physically handicapped, the abused, the impoverished and so on. although science tries hard to achieve the same goals, it cannot as it will always be manhandled by survival of the fittest theology. (and don't mean by people who generally believe in such things, i mean the movers and the shakers who believe such things, MUST, BY ORDER OF THEIR OWN PARADIGM, abuse what's abuse-able for the betterment of their own clique, their own ideology. this is the way of the world but it is not the way of GOD, so let's not wish perpetual nothing on everyone, mmkay?

Originally posted by undo
i think this thread over looks the necessity for compassion, the need for
learning about our spiritual selves, emotion, love, because in the final wash, if there's not an omnipotent, omnipresent judge of the people, there is no justice, no love and no reason but a temporary cycle of consumption. and that simply will not do. in my view of the universe, there's a marvellous new life for the downtrodden, the weak, the mentally and physically handicapped, the abused, the impoverished and so on. although science tries hard to achieve the same goals, it cannot as it will always be manhandled by survival of the fittest theology. (and don't mean by people who generally believe in such things, i mean the movers and the shakers who believe such things, MUST, BY ORDER OF THEIR OWN PARADIGM, abuse what's abuse-able for the betterment of their own clique, their own ideology. this is the way of the world but it is not the way of GOD, so let's not wish perpetual nothing on everyone, mmkay?

You are right, there is no justice, and all the wishful thinking in the world will make it so.

You are alone in a universe that cares for you not a bit, that will exist long after your bones are dust and your memory is void.

It may not be what you want, and "simply will not do", but all of human endeavour has shown it to be so, and thus your options are to continue pretending, or accept it and just live your life in a way that satisfies you alone, because ultimately there is nothing else.

[edit on 18-5-2009 by The Last Man on Earth]

reply to post by The Last Man on Earth


couldn't disagree more and wouldn't agree to the fate such a scenario would leave trillions of people over the long years of human history. nope. care too much about people to agree.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by The Last Man on Earth

 

couldn't disagree more and wouldn't agree to the fate such a scenario would leave trillions of people over the long years of human history. nope. care too much about people to agree.

I think you are just too afraid to look facts in the face. It isn't about caring - I care about plenty of people, very much so. But that doesn't change the fact that it simply is no evidence at all for any of it. And the further we advance, the more and more your god becomes the god of the gaps.

I would personally love nothing more than to believe the universe isn't as cold and forbidding as it is.




Is this creature really made in the image of your god? Really?

reply to post by The Last Man on Earth


there's no evidence as far as you're concerned. but you aren't me, and i'm not you. for me, there's evidence. in addition, i don't think the way things have been described thus far, allows for wastefulness on an universal scale.

if my mom wasn't preserved in the hereafter, all that knowledge and wisdom would be lost. no, we are here for a purpose. we may not all agree on what that purpose is, but there's a method to the seeming madness and it goes beyond the "stark" reality of atheism

btw, my dogs appear to have silent conversations with each other. i'm beginning to think they are alot smarter than we have been lead to believe just that they don't have the necessary appendages to perform certain tasks and as a result, we assume this means they aren't as intelligent as say, a chimpanzee, but uh, i think there's inaudible languages between some animal species. maybe it's all scent transmitted! that would make sense (a pun!)

Originally posted by undo
if my mom wasn't preserved in the hereafter, all that knowledge and wisdom would be lost. no, we are here for a purpose. we may not all agree on what that purpose is, but there's a method to the seeming madness and it goes beyond the "stark" reality of atheism

You percieve this godless, uncaring universe to be madness? I disagree, I think there is something harmonic and cosmically humbling about contemplating all that is.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


I am sorry I was working on a new thread and couldn't get back here.

I am not trying to avoid answering your questions. I thought I had. Some of my answers are in other threads that I have done.

Let me know what you feel I haven't answered and I will be glad to try.

Otherwise, here are some threads that may answer your questions easier then me attempting to do so in 100 words or less.

Is the Bible Part of a Great Conspiracy

Have Christians Been Duped?

Is God Cruel or Just Misunderstood?

And others.

Take what resonates with you (if any) and leave the rest.

Thanks!



[edit on 18-5-2009 by MatrixProphet]

Originally posted by undo
i think this thread over looks the necessity for compassion, the need for
learning about our spiritual selves, emotion, love, because in the final wash, if there's not an omnipotent, omnipresent judge of the people, there is no justice, no love and no reason but a temporary cycle of consumption. and that simply will not do. in my view of the universe, there's a marvellous new life for the downtrodden, the weak, the mentally and physically handicapped, the abused, the impoverished and so on. although science tries hard to achieve the same goals, it cannot as it will always be manhandled by survival of the fittest theology. (and don't mean by people who generally believe in such things, i mean the movers and the shakers who believe such things, MUST, BY ORDER OF THEIR OWN PARADIGM, abuse what's abuse-able for the betterment of their own clique, their own ideology. this is the way of the world but it is not the way of GOD, so let's not wish perpetual nothing on everyone, mmkay?

Hi undo. I am an atheist although I prefer secular humanist. I can't and likely will never understand "perpetual nothing" but I imagine perpetual torment is a far worse experience.

If a god were the only source of compassion in the world there would be no compassion to my thinking. Since concluding that there is no god I have taken on even more responsibility for the inequity I see around me. I am more sensitive to those not receiving their fair share and I have challenged myself to do more for those within the range of my influence. I do many of the same things now that I did for 50 years as a practicing Catholic. I have simply dispensed with the Sunday calisthenics and the idle or should I say idol threats. See how I did that? I continue to live a mostly Christian life without believing in god. Many of the ideas promoted by the mythical Jesus, 2000 years ago, were not new at that time and continue to be accepted by people of conscience.

The promise of a better next life has kept people from rising up and revolting against oppression. There are those researching the possibility that the Romans, either through the Piso family or through Flavius Josephus, a Jewish defector and adopted member of the Roman imperial family, authored the New Testament in order to hijack the Jewish scriptures. By doing so they effectively changed the Jewish messiah from a warrior king, to one that was weak, submissive and ruled in another realm. It would then be easy to convince early Christians to submit, pay taxes and never take up arms against the Roman aristocracy as violence, even against an enemy, would cost them in the next life. And so “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” worked like a charm. The Caesars received taxes and earthly submission and God received what was left. You know, your soul, your prayers and anything intangible.

How many billions have submitted to tyranny for the promise of a better life in the next life? Atheists are not necessarily bad people. Bad people are bad people. You are challenging yourself posting here and that's to be admired. We all have views of the universe and the only way my view improves is if I take action to improve it. I encourage you, even with our differing beliefs, to do the same.

[edit on 18-5-2009 by Hemisphere]

reply to post by dominicus


Thank you dominicus...

Great points all around...