The Prison System - Is it too Cruel?

I've been watching a few documentaries about the prison system recently and been horrified at the conditions some inmates are kept in, not only are the size of the cells shocking , but inmates can sometimes be kept locked up for up to 23 hours a day in one small room! This is criminal in itself and i can't believe we allow it to happen isn't this an infringment of civil liberties? Lest we forget they are human and before some of you bark that "if you can't do the time don't do the crime" let us not forget that many of these people are not there because they are "bad" people, but rather are there for the most part due to societies failings. Yes sir society has let them down in some shape of form, whether that means they were unable to get a job, or had to resort to crime simply to survive and eat or provide for their family. Maybe some made some stupid choices and mixed with the wrong people, whatever the reasons surely we should offer them more and not just forget about them. Btw I mostly mean non-violent offenders whom are not treated any differently from hardened criminals

Even when locked up we give them little to no guidence in entering the world as an honourable citizen ready for their release, so what happens? They turn to what they know best, crime, hence why the re-offending rates are normally around the 60-70% mark in most of the western world. Why don't we offer them some hope for example why don't we introduce proper industries into the the whole prison system? And offer the inmates employment not for 20 cents an hour but for minumum wage or more so that when they leave not only do they have new skills but also a fund they can fall back on in times of hardship. I guarantee they'd be less likely to offend under these circumstances.

If there is anyone here that has been incarcerated before I'd love to hear from you, even if you haven't been locked up before what do you think about the conditions inmates have to live under. Personally I'd go insane if I had to spend nearly all day locked up in one room.

These are human beings I am talking of and imo we treat them worst than animals!

[edit on 15-5-2009 by pharaohmoan]

reply to post by pharaohmoan





[edit on 5/15/2009 by greeneyedleo]

reply to post by pharaohmoan


Not to be mean spirited here but what about the victims of these criminals? In some case the victim has been altered in ways we can’t comprehend and maybe no longer on this planet.

I did not load the gun and give to them so they can commit these crimes, However I do agree that society should do more to help prevent this, in the since of better education and more discipline in the schools. Catch them young is my saying.

They are criminals for a reason, they commited some sort of crime, there in prision not Club Med.

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


I did say for non-violent offenders we should be more relaxed and for all offenders give then some form of hope in the form of providing them with real work skills to get a job in society,

reply to post by elevatedone


How many innocent people are in prison for no reason, do you even live in the real world.

I have never commited a crime in my life fact and the police in england have doen everything they can to get me to commit a crime, so they can lock me up, and this is a fact and my family knows it.

So if they have done thsi to me, they must of done this to so many people it is untrue.

Ignorance of the world is amazing how people are just asleep to what people with power do to destroy lifes, without a care in the world.

The threadstarter is right, the conditions those people are in in asolutely beyond belief, and when i think that tptb tried desperately to do that to me, i asolutely just hate them, and i can see them for what they are just a bunch of serial killers.

Have the police try to destroy you and you have done absolutely nothing wrong, and then tell us about how people had a choice to make. I had no choice to make, the polcie decided to destroy my life for no reason what so ever, so your ignorance just shows how much of the rela world you know.

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by pharaohmoan

 

Not to be mean spirited here but what about the victims of these criminals? In some case the victim has been altered in ways we can’t comprehend and maybe no longer on this planet.

What about the innocent who are in prison, they are the victims,a nd the people that made stuff up about them should be in jail and not them.

Your total blindness to how the real world works is amazing. Yep there are plenty of real criminals, and there victims are destroyed. But what about the victims who did nothing, and they are sitting in prison for no reason other than the police set them up for someone just making stuff up about them.

Nearly every single police person must be responsible for commiting murder in this way, and are as bad as any real criminal.

reply to post by pharaohmoan


.I could see giving non-violent non- repeat offenders something to look forward to or some sort of training that makes the respectable citizens

Originally posted by andy1033

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by pharaohmoan

 

Not to be mean spirited here but what about the victims of these criminals? In some case the victim has been altered in ways we can’t comprehend and maybe no longer on this planet.

What about the innocent who are in prison, they are the victims,a nd the people that made stuff up about them should be in jail and not them.

Your total blindness to how the real world works is amazing. Yep there are plenty of real criminals, and there victims are destroyed. But what about the victims who did nothing, and they are sitting in prison for no reason other than the police set them up for someone just making stuff up about them.

Nearly every single police person must be responsible for commiting murder in this way, and are as bad as any real criminal.

Did we read the same thing? I am sure that there are a handful of prisoners who are currently being held that our innocent. your totaly blindness to the fact that 90% of people in Jail actuall deserve to be there. The Innocent people in Jail is not what this topic is about so stay on point.

I recently returned to society after a 5 year bid in level 3(of 6) confinement. (medium security). Prison is easy, for just about everybody.
Its just routine and respect. $#%^ happens but basicaly its boring.
In America you're basicaly taken care of and they do offer classes to try to re educate and rehabilitate but you're ok for the most part if you find something legal to do with your time.
Prison life mimicks civilian life so much. Its just easier to see when it's on a microcosm scale.
3rd level has everybody. murderers, rapists, sexual predators. long time, short time. black,white, hispanic. Shotguns and High powered rifles. And when you're on the yard and it's shift change and you hear the shotguns being checked, everyone kind of stops and looks out of the corner of their eye to make sure that gun isn't pointed out that window.
You only get 23 and 1 if you're in the "hole" for misconduct.
most "hole" stays are 2 to 4 weeks. There are rules stating every week a nurse is to check your vitals while in there.
Most people in prison deserve it, and most people realy don't mind it, Especialy minorities who grew up and or continue to live "on the outside" without food, clothes, shelter. they dont seem to mind. Most just continue what they did on the outside, a life of crime, they break rules just for the sake of breaking, or because of the rush, or because thats all they know.

In 5 years I never heard someone claim they were innocent period. A long elaborate story about they shouldnt have been caught, but NEVER innocent. That doesnt mean there isn't anyone locked up who truly IS innocent, Just that in 5 years I never heard anyone claim it.

reply to post by pharaohmoan


I have worked with troubled teenage boys, and a couple have done prison time. I visited them when they were in prison, and I can tell the ones who think prison life is easy the opposite is true. They are still human beings, but have no freedom. The violence they live with day after day is also just as real. Corrupt guards can do whatever they want without worry of being "ratted out". It is heartbreaking when I visited the boys (who were in their late teens), but at least they admitted they made mistakes in their lives. Without TV or other activities, the suicide rate would be very high. Not all the people in prison are murderers and rapists. The vast majority are drug use and possession. Robbery and Burglary are next, with the violent offenders being smaller than most people want to believe. The United States has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world, and that includes countries like China.

And then there are the people who are falsely convicted because the state does not do any sort of DNA testing. It is too common to hear and see the stories of people serving more than 20 years in prison for a crime they did not commit.

I do believe people should be punished when convicted of a crime, but there needs to be some type of rehab to help them become better citizens. Warehousing people is not the answer, and that is also the case with juvenile offenders.

YO (youth offender) prison is another world from general population. If you take into account the inexperience of life in general, an imagined state of having to prove oneself, girlfriends, family, time , hustle, corrupt guards...... YO's go berserk.

True for YO's it's hard, but get that time, go to someone elses "house" who's gonna die there,, and things grind to a screeching hault.

Also, jail and prison are like day and night. Nobody in their right mind would want to stay in jail with the uncertainty of your case, detoxing junkies, You'r life on the outside slipping away and even more confinement and less canteen and privelages than prison.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by Tyler 720]

reply to post by pharaohmoan


First off, don't believe everything you see on the television, second, societies are not failing the criminal content and that belief is a crutch. Have you ever steeped foot inside a prison or detention facility? if not I suggest a tour if your curiosity is so inclined, I believe you'll see a whole different view that what t.v can provide.

I feel, that no prisons are not too cruel and many of inmate thinks nothing of receiving a prison sentence. Also it should be noted that there are a slew of technical and vocational oppertunities offered to inmates as well as substance abuse treatment and counseling.

How the prison system groups people should be reviewed. Where I live mentaly ill people are imprisoned instead of institutionalised.

One instance in general is an obviously retarded inmate that would randomly ask other inmates to tell him when his release date was. Having the only paperwork given to him by authorities, the inmate would ask others to read it. Convicted of child molestation, he was sentenced to 4 years and release after completion of intensive classes. Obviously he would never complete any type of class,and with the stipulation of release after completion, the "release date" portion of his paperwork stated "none"
10 months into his stay at a level 3 facility, he was observed "Running from the laundry room in flames from the waist up."

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


Yu should seen the lengths thepolice have gone to to totally wreck my life, and you think all those police are not a danger to ther people, give me a break here. The polcie are incredibly dangerous to people especially people who are considered outsiders in society.

You have no idea of any real numbers of innocent people to guilty people, in prison, like no one else. The police want someone they will go to any lengths to destroy that person.

Originally posted by alyosha1981

First off, don't believe everything you see on the television, second, societies are not failing the criminal content and that belief is a crutch.

Sorry but the docs I've seen have told it how it is the camera doesn't lie when it points toward a 10' by 6' cell or interviewing inmates who've been in a jail cell for 23 out of 24 hours because there are not enough staff to supervise them. This is inhumane by a long shot especially toward non violent offenders or people in for possesion.

And don't insult me by saying society is not responsible of course it is, you don't think these people would have chosen differently if they were presented with more choice in their life. Sometimes for the poor there is no choice and yes they do drugs to escape their problems and reality, you can't blame them for that they're only human. So when I hear people say 'they chose to do the crime' no they didn't for the most part the choices had been taken away from them which leaves few options remaining. It's like saying to a starving man you can walk through a supermarket but just look don't touch, yet if he touches he's deemed a criminal. Or saying to a poor man you can work in Mcdonalds and just about get by or sell drugs and live a better life. Mmm some choice that is. And I'm not making stuff up here. So you see when you and others say they chose to be that way, no they didn't. Choice imo is having at least several options most of which are optimistic or have a high likelihood of a positive outcome. Unless you have lived the lives of these people or are enough of an empath to put yourself in their shoes you will never understand that for the most part they didn't choose their way of life they don't know any different, and that's not their fault that is societies fault. This is blatantly obvious, and to deny it is like brushing the problem under the carpet and saying everything is just dandy which imo is a little ignorant.

Also there is no way we should be locking up all types of offenders in the same prison but it happens. For example a person done for possession should not be punished the same way as someone in there for a greater crime. If society were doing it's job re-offending rates wouldn't be so high, obviously we are only providing inmates with minimal support to get back into normal society.

I spent 4 years in state prison. I think that the system is neither cruel nor kind. The guards and other staff who work in prison tend to care about the safety and well being of the inmates..and I'm not talking about a cakewalk prison, this was where stabbings and rapes happened frequently.

Originally posted by andy1033
reply to post by elevatedone

 

How many innocent people are in prison for no reason, do you even live in the real world.

Okay I don't know your story, it must have been a terrible experience to go through what you went through, but are you saying because there maybe a few miscarriages of justce and innocent prisoners we shoud have cushy prisons where it feels like a stay in a bad bed&breakfast?

I'm sorry but that really is madness. Prison should be just that, a prison, no tv no priveleges and no exceptions. What you are talking about is the corruption of police and the legal system. I grant you that and that is a scandal, but the prison service is a different issue all together.

IMO

Oh PS if you want to share your horrible experience or talk about it I'd be happy to hear.