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If Consumers Won't Kick-Start the Economy, What Will?

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posted on May, 15 2009 @ 12:13 PM
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If Consumers Won't Kick-Start the Economy, What Will?


www.time.com

There may well be green shoots in the economy, but American consumers are still withering. That was the message from the Census Bureau's retail sales report on Wednesday morning, with sales dropping 0.4% overall in April. Forecasters had expected no change.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on May, 15 2009 @ 12:13 PM
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This is something some people don't seem to understand.

Appart from whatever plans the big players of the world have for the world economy, the economy of the U.S. is based on it's consumers.

If people don't have jobs they won't be able to spend more money, which means more people losing jobs because Americans are not spending as much, and then other Americans will lose their jobs, ect, in a cycle that will only stop with only the wealthy being able to live relatively well during this economic depression.

The current administration's plans is to close even more jobs, and fire more Americans instead of bringing in more jobs, and "bailing out" companies that employ American workers instead of bailing out only the rich.

Many lowr Middle Calss Americans had put their faith on Obama thinking he would give them jobs, and he would even pay their bills. Well, sorry to say that is not going to happen exaclty as these people want.

www.time.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 12:16 PM
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If Time Magazine cannot understand such a simple thing then everyone should boycott their magazine, plain and simple.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 12:38 PM
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These people don't seem to realize that the only thing that will save this country from going further into the depression is if we stop the rediculous amount of spending and start actually producing goods, of course we want a balance or we'll be like China. Here's something to consider though, if the United States enters into a World War III, who will produce our goods or supplies? Back in WWI and WWII we had people back home manufacturing our goods and thats one reason why we were successful in at least WWII. Who produces most of our goods now? China.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 12:47 PM
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This is what the Government doesn't understand. We can't go back to being a producer based nation because of the global economy and cheap labor.

We have to be consumers. Bush borrowed and spent us into oblivion and Obama is doing the same. Obama wants us to be a producer based nation but if we are one we will be a big third world country because of cheap labor.

Contrary to popular belief, we were in a great position. We borrowed and consumed and other countries held out debt. This was the best position to be in because of the global economic structure.

What happened is Government spent too much and increased our debt. When our debt begins to reach our consumption then these countries will not want to hold our debt.

These are truly dire times because the Government keeps growing.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 01:06 PM
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The Facist Govt/Industry giant understands this well.

The Facist/Govt controlled MSM understands this well.

Their job is to keep order amongst the populace through MSM propaganda while executing the multi-decade plan to keep 'giant-industry players of all economic sectors' (illuminati) from losing global control of their monopolies.

Achieved through positioning their selected Govt leaders by financial means. Staging 2 selected candidates (one from each party) for us to elect.

US is no longer fertile soil to grow and continue global control of their industries and associated resources. All threatening small competition has been bought up or pushed out by the elite in the USA.

Must move on to other developing nations, and do the same, until control of all Govts, Industry, and Resources is held. AKA NWO.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 01:18 PM
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If consumers have a will to kick start their own economy, then very simply, they must invest in themselves and their countrymen. Grow and produce as much as you possibly can yourselves, then work to create a surplus, then trade and barter for the things you cannot produce, and avoid imports wherever possible.

The World's politicians are warning against 'protectionism' but that is only because they are in the pockets of the Global Industrialists, and it's their philosophy that has just failed. The 'old economy' is not worth saving. it's based entirely on exploiting you and me, we really need a new economy based on the principles of the Founding Fathers and their Constitution, but without a Federal Reserve banking system.

We have to go back to the beginning and start again, doing what we know works from a simple base, leaving out the middlemen and the banks.
Invest in yourselves, believe in youselves, and thereby save youselves, if you do not first save yourselves, how can you ever help others?

Globalism does not work, it has just been demonstrated perfectly, it only involves the exploitation of the people of the World solely for the financial benefit of a tiny elite, who by their past record are beneath contempt.
We are all in for a rough ride, but if we work together and rebuild the community spirit that enabled many of us to survive WW2, we can do it again. If we all simply work to create a new low level economy, producing only essential basic needs then we [the meek] will indeed inherit the Earth, and survive!

Keeping you all in my prayers

Horsegiver.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by FX44rice
 


Good points and I keep saying it's not Socialism but Fascism.

Socialism means the state controls industry. Fascism still allows for privately run businesses but the government controls these businesses.

You can see this happening with Obama slashing advertising budgets of privately owned companies. Obama is firing General Managers and he wants to control executive pay.

This is DANGEROUS because the President of the United States is not supposed to be contolling advertising budgets of private companies when they can't control the budget for the Behemoth in Washington.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

It's happening before our eyes when the President of the United States is controlling private business.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by horsegiver
 

Unfortunately the Govt is and has been creating barriers through legislation to not allow the new economy you speak of from happening.

They are gaining even more Global Control now through bailouts and legislation than ever before.

Example legislation:

HR 875 Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009.



[edit on 15-5-2009 by FX44rice]



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 01:31 PM
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I think that the ultimate irony is that, despite the fact that everyone goes on and on about how Communism is a failed ideology, Marx was right about how and why Capitalism would end up failing...after shifting from industrial capitalism to merchant capitalism cycles of growth and collapse would continue, with ever increasing crises arising from the collapses, to the point that they would create a collapse so great that it would, in essence, force a revolution by the proletariat...

In my opinion, though they do play a significant role in it, this crisis is NOT because of the government spending...it is because of the greed innate to the capitalist system...it is because the needs of capital itself have come to supercede the needs of the worker and the working class...

Funnily enough, we say it every single day...The government and the corporations are screwing the middle class...the working class...they're getting squeezed tighter and tighter while the fat-cats and the politicians are reaping all the rewards... I don't think anyone will disagree with that.... But people refuse to put two and two together and say, "hey, wait a minute....that sounds exactly like why the communists did their thing..." Instead, people just say "thats why we need to get the government out of business..." NO, the reason we're in this situation is because the government has so little control over business; that business, the multi-national corporations, are taking us to the proverbial cleaner...

People...there is a redistribution of wealth going on here...there has been since the fall of the Soviet Union....but its been a redistribution of wealth from the masses to the few...And that is the failure of our unbridled, super-capitalist state of affairs...

But I must be crazy...I mean, only a crazy person would dare imply that capitalism could become dangerous to society...



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by platosallegory
 

Agreed.

It is the illusion also that the Govt is now taking control of the Giant "Private Corporate Entities"

It is actually the opposite

Giant Corporate "Private" Entities have successfully placed or bought the Govt leaders of their choice into office, to execute the legislation they desire to maintain their dominance and control.

I say "Private" meaning publicly held companies with major shareholders being the (illuminati) contrary to the thought to many as a group of blueblood bankers.


[edit on 15-5-2009 by FX44rice]



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by platosallegory
 



"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

It's happening before our eyes when the President of the United States is controlling private business.

No, what you’re seeing right now is a President trying to exert some control over the businesses that, for decades, have been controlling government.

On and on and on we hear people saying, “get the government out of business.” It’s the other way around, my friends…Business is the one that has been controlling government. Someone comes in and say to a failing business, “hey, you’re failing and asking for money….yeah, we’ll give it to you…but you’re going to have to make some sacrifices…” And then they run off with the money anyway.

Now, none of us are happy about the way things are going…but what we are seeing, right now, and have been seeing for years is corporations screwing over everyone and the government, perhaps idiotically, trying to hold everything together, only for those bailed out corps to turn around and slap the government, and the American people, in the collective face…

I’m not saying that the government are good guys in any of this…but the reality is that it’s a very difficult balance to keep…you know, trying to prevent a global economic depression that will likely cause World War 3 while getting repeatedly screwed by the very capitalist system that you’re trying to recussitate by shifting loads of money into it in a hopes that the companies being bailed out won’t close their factories in your own country in order to keep the citizens of the country, who ultimately pay the bill, working, with them turning around and running off with the bail-out money and giving themselves and the share-holders big fat golden parachutes in the process…and keeping the public happy…


I suppose its easier to blame the government than it is to blame the entire capitalist system, though...



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by madhatr137
 

It is evident that you are not and never were a business owner.

No business wants to be told how to run their business by Govt.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by madhatr137
 


No it's not the capitalist system and this is where people go wrong. Of course these Corporation are going to make money. Corporations are about the bottom line.

It's mostly on Governments shoulder and the American people for allowing these crooked politicians to control the candy store (our money) without supervision.

Corporations buy off the politicians who are elected to protect the interest of the American people. Governments don't have it hard, they have it good because they control trillions of dollars and that gives them power.

The American people should have demanded things like term limits, public financing of campaigns and a ban on lobbying from Corporations years ago.

The government is not innocent bystanders, they are bought and paid for so of course the 2 interest will merge.

The reason you can't blame the Corporations as much as the government is because the government allows this to happen when there elected to protect the citizens. They are looking out for the best interest of the people who give them money and power and who secures their seat in Washington.

Corporations are greedy by nature and they will look for the bottom line. They also do good things like increase GDP, pay workers and donate to charities.

You have to have a strong Government to balance these things out and sadly our Government is bought and paid for.



[edit on 15-5-2009 by platosallegory]



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


What will restore the "global" economy? Putting Americans into the state of poverty they deserve to be in by floating the Chinese currency, and depreciating all U.S. reserves world wide. Let's default all the balance of trade deficits and improve standards of living in China and elsewhere human capital permits, so that we might actually use the planet's resources on smart, hard-working people and so that in turn they finally apply all that holed up potential for real economic growth and scientific advancement...

[edit on 15-5-2009 by cognoscente]



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by FX44rice
reply to post by madhatr137
 

It is evident that you are not and never were a business owner.

No business wants to be told how to run their business by Govt.




No, I'm not a business owner...nor am I likely ever to be a business owner....and you don't have to be a business owner to know that no business ever want to be told how to run their business by the government...just like no person ever really wants the government to tell them what they can or cannot do in their life...because that's how we roll in the Liberal Democratic world...

But I'm not attempting to say that government intervention in business is good...just as government intervention in life is usually not particuarly satisfactory in most people's eyes...

What I'm saying is that business has been intervening in government for too long...the system is out of whack and its favor has swayed far too much toward business...to the detriment of the citizen...so, how do we fix that? Give the businesses that are taking advantage of everything and everyone to increase their profits MORE leway to continue hoarding, to continue abusing the system, to continue cheating the public out of our futures?

I don't think so.

You know...a hundred years ago, or so, Teddy Roosevelt busted up the monoplies that were abusing human rights and breaking the law to only a fraction of these corporations do today.....

I'm not saying we need to convert to Communism...but at a certain point and time the system needs to be reassessed.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by platosallegory

Good points and I keep saying it's not Socialism but Fascism.

Socialism means the state controls industry. Fascism still allows for privately run businesses but the government controls these businesses.


Except that we are being told that NATIONALIZING the whole banking system will be the solution, and that is a Socialist program.

The rich bankers have been part of the government since the Federal Reserve Act, which means THEY ARE THE STATE, or at least part of it.

BTW remember that recently OBama was telling GM, a private company, to fire certain people, and what cars they should be making, this is also a sign of Socialism.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by madhatr137
 


The American system is the best system right now. We don't need socialism or communism.

Self Interest is what drives this country. If you are self interested and start a business that eventually makes 50 million a year then you are employing people, you help the economy with taxes and consumption and you give to charity.

Apple Computer was started because of self interest. Microsoft was started because of self interest. McDonalds and Taco Bell was started because of self interest.

Look what they have done for the economy and things like non-profits.

If the state owns industry then there's no incentive for the individual and you have Cuba.

What went wrong with America is the people have allowed crooked politicians control of the candy store(our money) without supervision and now everyone is waking up sick.

I just don't like the evil corporation argument. It's the Government that's elected to protect the rights of it's citizens and they have allowed themselves to be bought and paid for.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by platosallegory

The American people should have demanded things like term limits, public financing of campaigns and a ban on lobbying from Corporations years ago.

Corporations are greedy by nature and they will look for the bottom line. They also do good things like increase GDP, pay workers and donate to charities.


Very good points which few understand the severity of.

As long as financing of campaigns happens privately and the goal of a cooporation is to make more and more money ergo manipulate the general popluation into buying their products, we are always going to have problems. For starters common sense dictates the fact that manipulation on any level is wrong so when politicians are being manipluated indirectly through campaign contributions and lobbying from cooporations what we have is the effective 'automation' of politicians who are just playing their parts.

You see money is a ghost ship that has it's own set of rules and momentum this is what most people don't realise, when a company thinks solely about the bottom line then systems and company objectives are naturally built up around the game of making more and money sometimes by whatever means necessary. If you start to think of a company as an entity that breathes through the intake of cash then you start to realise in order to stay alive it will go all out to control its environment to ensure its survival. This is why capitalism is now a dirty word, it is manipulative, exploitative, corrupt and essentially at the end of the day unethical. Why because there are few if any limations on the amount of money (exploitation) a company can make.

The solution and an obvious one to me to create instant wealth is cap and redistribute company profits back into the economy and make every employee a shareholder. So if a company makes 50 million in profit 25 million could go to the employees and 25 into a national fund designed to create a better world by for example assisting the nation and eliminating poverty then turning to the third worlds and assisting them. It's wrong that in this day and age people still live in poverty striken environments, and we mustn't forget this.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 03:19 PM
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We're going to do our part.

Since the economy hit the dumps, the price of building materials has plummeted.

We have a lot that we want to build a cabin on, and originally, we would have started construction in about 5 years. It would take us about that long to save up the money to build.

But, with the economy the way it is, we should be starting in about 6 weeks.



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