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Obama says debt can't be sustained

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posted on May, 16 2009 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by platosallegory
 


Will the real obama please stand up. Which is it more spending or less spending? One thing for sure the people will be taxed on everything that moves and everything that doesn't.

These are a list of things I believe will be taxed in the near future to pay for obama's massive spending spree. Watch for insurance policy money collected from a death benefit to be taxed in the near future. You think property taxes are bad wait until the government starts charging clean air tax based on how many cars you own and how many miles you drive. If you own a gasoline driven mower expect to pay a clean air tax on the mower. If you own animals expect a tax based on methane being released from their waste and this will include cats and dogs you own. Expect a clean air tax based on the size of your property and cubic feet of air at a certain height above your property. I foresee a tax imposed on the air we breath by how many are in your family.

If you think the soda pop with sugar is going to have a tax added onto the consumer wait until you see the list in the future of consumable products that will be taxed. Remember the middle class and poor will be spared higher taxes. LOL




posted on May, 16 2009 @ 11:58 PM
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It is a bit late so as much as i hate to admit this, I didn't read the entire thread but most of it.

My first thought was the old CYA-cover your....well you know.


It seems that many have forgotten when this whole presidency started how he made the point repeatedly that we are in "UNCHARTED WATERS, and no one is sure what will or won't work". I was one of the dopes that fell for his crap and remember him saying that very clearly, of course now with a totally new view.

He didn't know if throwing that money at the problem would really jumpstart the economy or not...where is the jump start...I don't see it yet!


So here we are trillions more in the hole with trillions missing...and now he says we can't live debt based???
It is nothing but spin to cover his butt because things are headed for pure disaster! It makes no sense to anyone how a family or a nation can survive on money they don't have, how can anyone maintain that? Impossible, at some point the buck has to stop, the piper must be paid and ladies and gentlemen we are there and I fear it ain't going to be pretty.



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 01:03 AM
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Originally posted by XD9611
reply to post by David9176
 


you are so very right about word play..

this president does an obviously bad thing for this country, then comes out later and condemns those same actions HE initiated!!


Maybe he has multiple personality disorder or something. He's obviously not right in the head. And he has access to the button...



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 01:28 AM
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Mr. Obama,
Thank you Cap. OBVIOUS.



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 07:18 AM
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The people who want to blame Obama for our current economic woes are nothing but propagandist who desire to divert the blame from the people on whom the blame squarely belongs, the repub admin that just left office.

If you think Obama can just wave a wand and solve all the problems that have been created by 8 years of gross mismanagement of our nations economy, then you are simply not being realistic.

No we can not continue to borrow to run government, so the only solution is to spend less or raise taxes.

If we cut government spending, that means our economy will only weaken further, and this has been historically demonstarted over and over. There are some cuts that can and should be made, medicaid, the war on drugs, and the military. Our military budget is ridiculously over and above all other nations on Earth. Are we that paranoid that we need to continuously out spend other nations at our current rate? Face the truth, our military budget exists for two main reason, profit of the military industrial complex, and support of IC's in the third world nations. In other words, our military budget goes to support exportation of our jobs.

If we raise taxes at least back to where they were in 1994, which resulted on the lowering of our nations deficit spending, and a boom economy, then we will most likely get the same results. In 1945 our nations was far deeper in debt, and they paid back that debt by raising taxes on the super rich, and building our nations Interstate system. It worked then, it can work now.

So we have two choices, go with what has been historically proven to work, or go with what has been historically proven not to work. As far as what the super rich should pay in taxes, most of what federal government does benefits the super rich. Not only does our military presence overseas primarily benefit the super rich like the oil companies, things like our nations interstate highway system also primarily benefit the super rich and industry, like oil companies and auto companies and insurance companies and banks. People should pay taxes in propensity to the wealth they gain, and currently, the super rich are not.



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 07:40 AM
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reply to post by jsobecky
 


I'm not sure how Obama has lowered the bar down to the $250K income level, but if he is hitting people people who run small businesses, then that is a bad thing. Something should be done to lower tax rates on small, legitimate businesses that put people to work, and lowering tax rates on workers would be a good way to go.

The average working guy gets very little from the federal government. They aren't collecting welfare or getting benefits from medicaid, they aren't producing major levels of pollution, or conducting business across state and federal borders, they aren't producing products that might not be what they are advertised to be, or that might be very harmful, or dishonest in nature, so the role of the federal government has very little benefit for people who earn their livings by selling their skills on the market. They aren't running overseas operations that require military protection.

The federal governments tax rate on businesses that operate within state borders should be very minimal. The goods and services that cross state and federal borders should be paying for federal government, not local businesses, or individuals not conducting commerce that crosses these borders.

As far as the people who earn $250K plus working for big corporations either directly as upper middle management or lower level executives, or indirectly as consultants or lawyers, they are all bag men for the corporate elites in my opinion, which is why their jobs managing overseas production still exists. They should be paying higher taxes. Add to that all these people who make their money playing the stock markets like gambling casinos. How many of them are nothing more than parasites on our economy.



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
The people who want to blame Obama for our current economic woes are nothing but propagandist who desire to divert the blame from the people on whom the blame squarely belongs, the repub admin that just left office.

If you think Obama can just wave a wand and solve all the problems that have been created by 8 years of gross mismanagement of our nations economy, then you are simply not being realistic.



While the rest of your post does have considerable merit, I would like to point out that many of the woes of today stem from far further back than just the past 8 years.


There is considerable propaganda afoot here, least of which is the idea that the US is the manufacture to the world. Post WWII, the US was the only industrial nation with its factories completely left intact. While Europe and Asia rebuilt the US had the market cornered. Rather than adapt to changing standards of production, we saw the post war boom as unending.

With the majority of our domestic industry outsourced to the point of not even Levi jeans are made in the USA anymore, the financial reeling from over extension the only real industry left is insurance. Should we have a nationalized healthcare system, then would there be any need for Prudential and Mutual of Omaha in the future?

Bottom line is, so long as people can not make enough money due to job losses and income reductions to sustain our current consumerism then the markets will remain volatile which only adds to the FUD (Fear Uncertainty Doubt) of our economy.

Hard to place blame squarely on the common people when the government has lived beyond its means for decades.

On the subject of the bailouts/stimulus package. I think those proponents are criminal or possibly just insane. To give directly to the banking institutions and AIG to prop up the guarantee polices while doing nothing to advance commerce and wage earnings is akin to trying to find more dirt to fill in a hole by digging it deeper.

In a free market, the banks end up with the money in the long run even if the trillions were handed out on a street corner to passersby. Whether it came from restaurant deposits from when you enjoyed an nice meal out or from the car dealerships depositing car purchases (or interest made from loans) when employers expanded operations to try and capture the free flowing money introduced.

Ultimately this depression will continue to grow over time so long as FUD keeps banks from loaning and people still employed save for the rainy day. In regards to the deficit spending by Washington, when the countries making the loans start calling in the markers is when we can see an international run on the Bank of Uncle Sam...not much different than 1929's run on the banks.

But there is the problem, so long as China depends on exports to the US to maintain their growing (and currently slowing) economy, calling in that debt will hold their wealth at the current level. When China is comfortable with the size of their wealth or expands in enough markets to compensate is when the real poop hits the propeller. Millions will die from not being able to adjust to lower living standards.

But once that is over, and all the names and players have changed, humanity will climb the ladder again to go down the wild slide that scares the hell out of us. Too often we as a whole do not learn from our mistakes nor from the mistakes of others.



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 01:30 PM
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heres your solution Mr Obama.

Rationalise America for real..not pretend.

Im tired of the half heart crash course were on thats all..lets get real. Not just say we arer then dont because preplanned lameness from bigger fish are showing us were just slaves..of their decadent mockery..no ..were not.

Magnets can be arranged in ways to create rotation. Rotation is all that is required to do work. like create electricity. Power a car, or pump. Even filter water better than traditional filters.

I encourage every american to buy magnets, and build rotators, and fuel your home off grid once this is achieved. just think America.

Floating electrogravitic buses and cars, preprogrammed via digital transmitters to take you to a destination within a city, or even craft that could bounce within minutes or hours within our galaxy.

Electricity summoned by Teslas ideas, magnets..and more human enginuity.

Life is not any one mans patented reality, it is meant to be shared. Our modern stubborn pride leads us to defend a false view on reality, implied as moral. It is not.

i respect the partier who just wants happiness, more than one who knows, but denies for power or greed, lifes reality that we are all the equal negative or postive we assume another to be in some displaced way.

Life today, because of war, compared to other dimensions are behind the times. Unfortunately the masters who have kept us down, plan more lies, subsequent wars to rid themselves of what they term rabbel, what are merely humans who see through and go up against a massive lie for power.

It is sad, and sick, that my nation is fallen to such lows, brought by manipulators of time and space, and the mind.

Follow the signal from source to destination, and you have your answers..
that is free energy America



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by jsobecky
 


I'm not sure how Obama has lowered the bar down to the $250K income level, but if he is hitting people people who run small businesses, then that is a bad thing. Something should be done to lower tax rates on small, legitimate businesses that put people to work, and lowering tax rates on workers would be a good way to go.

The average working guy gets very little from the federal government. They aren't collecting welfare or getting benefits from medicaid, they aren't producing major levels of pollution, or conducting business across state and federal borders, they aren't producing products that might not be what they are advertised to be, or that might be very harmful, or dishonest in nature, so the role of the federal government has very little benefit for people who earn their livings by selling their skills on the market. They aren't running overseas operations that require military protection.

The federal governments tax rate on businesses that operate within state borders should be very minimal. The goods and services that cross state and federal borders should be paying for federal government, not local businesses, or individuals not conducting commerce that crosses these borders.

As far as the people who earn $250K plus working for big corporations either directly as upper middle management or lower level executives, or indirectly as consultants or lawyers, they are all bag men for the corporate elites in my opinion, which is why their jobs managing overseas production still exists. They should be paying higher taxes. Add to that all these people who make their money playing the stock markets like gambling casinos. How many of them are nothing more than parasites on our economy.


Apparently, you have not heard of Joe the Plumber? This $250k standard for taxation for small businesses is what started that fiasco. Obama's people then felt embarrassed or whatever, so they started attacking Joe's character in the media.

$250k is where small businesses are typically breaking even from what I've read. Therefore, Obama wants to heavily tax small businesses who are just breaking even. And people wonder why so many businesses fail, between Wal-marts and heavy taxation.



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by Jessicamsa
 


Could you be more specific, because I remember the Joe the Plumber incident, but that was dealing with taxes before Obama ever took office. Maybe you can point out just where Obama is planning on raising taxes on small businesses.

A politically hyped incident usually has more opinion, and a whole less actual point on which to base that opinion.



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Jessicamsa
 


Could you be more specific, because I remember the Joe the Plumber incident, but that was dealing with taxes before Obama ever took office. Maybe you can point out just where Obama is planning on raising taxes on small businesses.

A politically hyped incident usually has more opinion, and a whole less actual point on which to base that opinion.



Not quite. It was dealing with what Obama said he was planning to do with taxes.



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by Jessicamsa
 


Ok, if that was true, please point out those specifics that incident was concerned with. If I remember right there were proposals put forth to allow small businesses more deductions.

The new tax policy has not been completely formed yet, there is no reason to believe that it can't be made more business friendly.

Here is what I link I found on the subject says.

www.inc.com...


"We asked about the tax increase because there was this perception it would kill the entrepreneurial spirit, that these people were earning more and that's the American dream," said Ryan Scully, director of Discover's business credit card. "But the majority doesn't earn over $250,000 and won't be impacted."

According to Benjamin Harris, a senior research fellow at the Tax Policy Center, a joint venture of the Urban and Brookings Institutes, only a small portion of the sector will see rate hikes, because few companies both make a quarter of a million dollars and pass their profits on to the employer's tax return.

"We estimate that, all in all, only about 2.2 percent of small business units will see a tax increase, and that's just because so few people fall into this category," he said.


Only if you pull more than 250K out of your business for your own personal spending do you get a tax increase. If you put all of your profits back into the business that are over $250K, you don't have to pay higher taxes. Who knows, you might also be able to put some of that money into insurance, or college tuition and still avoid taxes.



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 09:26 PM
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reply to post by Ahabstar
 


Yes, I would say that these economic woes have existed since the last industrial revolution in 1880. It has to do with the corporate structure, and the large amounts of capital needed for mass production and marketing. As technology has improved, the amount of capital needed for mass production has dropped considerably. If anything, the massive power of giant corporations over the markets are keeping our economies from advancing to the next level, one where corporations start shrinking, and bureaucracy along with them.

Certainly the blame does not belong with the common people, it should be squarely placed on the corporate elites where it belongs.

The U.S. loaned Europe and Japan the money to rebuild, and it didn't take them a decade to rebuild. Even with loaning Europe the money to rebuild we were still able to pay off our massive debt from WW II, and pay to have massive new infrastructure projects. If we could do it then, we should be able to do it now.

As far as China is concerned, they have been manipulating their currency to keep trade in their favor, along with many other practices. Should they choose to get dirty, we have plenty of actions we could take to turn the tables on them.

The most made in America Car is Honda, and has been for a long time. U.S. worker productivity still makes us very competitive on the world market. As technology changes the markets, we could could bring back much of our production abilities, we just need the right governance to make it happen.

Write your congressmen, and Obama, tell them to start doing more for small businesses.



posted on May, 17 2009 @ 09:43 PM
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This problem is too far gone for even the best fiscal conservatives in the world to fix now.

Best they can do is stand back, let the current extreme left in power run this thing into the ground.... Stepping in now with promises and solutions in the hope to win elections would be political suicide.

The only way out is the way back, starting over with a new plan that could actually work, unfortunately humans do not yet have the ability to travel back in time.

President Obama is saying exactly what many good business leaders and well known fiscal conservatives were saying from the day the Obama plans were being made public.

Too bad he didn't listen.

Perhaps by the end of his term millions of Americans can protest in Washington by building mountains of worthless dollars and setting it ablaze.

See you all at the bonfires!

If you survive long enough to make it there... Oh and bring gas and matches. Beer if you can find any... Do not bring tea bags, that will likely be a capital offence by then.




posted on May, 18 2009 @ 12:02 AM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


Actually, the problem with deficit spending goes WAY, WAY back before the last administration...back to FDR. It's a habit like crack and the government can't seem to shake it. It got really bad under LBJ and Nixon with Vietnam and manifested it's bad side at it's worst under Carter. Reagan started cleaning it up, Clinton did some more toward that end, but the previous administration blew it to Hell and now the Dems have expanded on that and rocketed it into outer space in the span of 4 months. TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF DEBT IN 4 MONTHS!!!

It's not a Democrat or Republican issue. The government is out of control and has to be cut down to size...the size that the Constitution specifies rather than the size that the overblown egos of Washington pols desire.



posted on May, 18 2009 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by RR98
 


The problem goes all the way back the 1880ties. Depressions were common up until the end of the Great Depression.

FDR's reforms of the banking community are what have kept us out of a depression until now. We are in our current mess because Newt Gingrich, with his contract on America, undid the banking restrictions that had been keeping us out of a depression for over fifty years. Since repubs passed their contract eliminating banking restrictions and lowering taxes on capital gains below income taxes on wages and salaries, we have seen two huge investment bubbles caused by run away corruption in the investment community, and are now in the worse economic situation since the Great Depression. How can you not get this?

Reagan started this fiscal deficit spending mess that has gotten us trillions of dollars in debt. Reagan was one of the worst presidents in our nations history, and when you Reagan fans wake up to this reality, you will be far better off. There is no such thing as a free market, it is communism.

Obama will be re-elected in if he continues on with his current policies, because they will turn the economy around. History has already demonstrated how this should be done.



posted on May, 18 2009 @ 10:26 AM
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Obama plain scares me sometimes... i was in mexico when he came to office so im happy that i wasnt here when he came in. He is just going to run us into the ground, then war, then anarchy , and then finally because of him the year 2012 is the last year he is in and hopefully not the last year we are too



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