Hersh: Children sodomized at Abu Ghraib, on tape

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85

Originally posted by Layla
I don't know about you, but I certainly don't want to see those pictures. I think keeping the video or pictures locked up IS the right thing to do. Should the INFO be out? ABSOLUTELY, but there is no reason to release footage like that to the public. IMO, it only exploits those children further.

Released in a courtroom for witnesses to see . yes. to the public no. Thats just wrong if you want to see that or hear it .

Released in many court rooms, all responsible should pay for this. Bush although immune in the US should face an international war crimes court. I wouldn’t have covered Hitler’s A** and I wouldnt cover Bushes either.

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow

Seymour Hersh is a proven liar and actually has admitted as much in the past just look him up on Wiki and follow the links given.

So you chose the "attack the messenger" routine...

In this case the Messenger was the globally claimed and Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Seymour Hersch:

"Hersch's work first gained worldwide recognition in 1969 for exposing the My Lai Massacre and its cover-up during the Vietnam War, for which he received the 1970 Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting. His 2004 reports on the US military's mistreatment of detainees at Abu Ghraib prison gained much attention.

Hersh received the 2004 George Polk Award for Magazine Reporting[1] given annually by Long Island University to honor contributions to journalistic integrity and investigative reporting. This was his fifth George Polk Award, the first one being a Special Award given to him in 1969."
-From Wikipedia

This page lists the awards that Seymour Hersh has received over the years and the stories that won those awards.:

en.wikipedia.org...

(If you have enough points, you could delete some of the awards from his wiki page to help justify your claims of journalistic ineptitude. Start with the Pulitzer he won :lol


*I find quite disturbing the lengths that torture supporters such as yourself will go to in order rationalize and justify their support for these depravities.

Nevertheless, by doing this openly; the torture supporter reveals himself and his true nature.

Such a revelation is useful and important to know - it allows the members the choice not to associate with those who support the use of torture, and tactics more commonly associated with third-world dictatorships and totalitarian societies than this Constitutional Republic.

Bushed (boosht)
n.
1. Slang, sadistically murdered.
2. To be killed in a torturous and or humiliating manor while your mother is forced to watch.
[Origin Iraq (Abu Ghraib)]



[edit on 15-5-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

Anybody get the feeling that 'the powers that be' want to get rid of Obama? I mean I am a placid peaceful human being. However, when I saw those photos I was so outraged and so much so I made me direct alot of hatred towards my own country its unbelievable.

I wonder how many people around the world will feel the same way? Absolutely disgusting!! May the people responsible be judged for their actions by the universal power of this universe.

I heard it when Rumsfeld said it. It was in a congressional hearing, and it was broadcast on cspan. (The best place to get news, I think.)

I was kicking and screaming about it for years. Yep, that's what I understood him to be affirming - that there were videos and picture evidence of rape and sodomy of minors.

I really didnt want to post anymore in this thread however

1) I DO NOT support TORTURE and have previosly said so in this thread and others. example Russian death squads 'pulverise' Chechens
2) As I have said before read the entire WIKI article especially the criticisms and articles in the footnotes therein

Hersh, like most investigative journalists, makes frequent reference to anonymous sources in his reporting; some have criticized this usage, implying that some of these sources are unreliable or even made up. In a review of Hersh's book, Chain of Command, conservative commentator Amir Taheri wrote, "As soon as he has made an assertion he cites a "source" to back it. In every case this is either an un-named former official or an unidentified secret document passed to Hersh in unknown circumstances... By my count Hersh has anonymous 'sources' inside 30 foreign governments and virtually every department of the U.S. government."[27]

Those who criticize Hersh's credibility especially point to allegations Hersh has made in public speeches and interviews, rather than in print. In an interview with New York magazine, Hersh made a distinction between the standards of strict factual accuracy for his print reporting and the leeway he allows himself in speeches, in which he may talk informally about stories still being worked on or blur information to protect his sources. "Sometimes I change events, dates, and places in a certain way to protect people... I can’t fudge what I write. But I can certainly fudge what I say."[30]

Sy Hersh Says It’s Okay to Lie (Just Not in Print)

Hersh’s History

The Cult of Seymour Hersh

The UN today contacted Obama and requested (or demanded) top officials be prosecuted for torture. So Obama has a very tough decision to make.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
This is sickening.

Now I understand why Obama doesn't want this out, this would, in one single strike, create thousands, if not millions, of potential threats to America.

This would radicalize many.

BUT!

Obama should release the information (not any images or identities), and he should state, without any shadow of doubt, that the Bush administration, all of them, will face charges.

Then he needs to repeat that the Obama administration is a new start. He needs to make it clear that America has changed. His current inaction, in light of these leaks, will only erode the image of Obama and America even further. He simply has to be open and honest and hold those responsible accountable for their actions.

If he doesn't, and this is already leaking, it will make millions enraged against America, and it will show that Obama is no different to Bush. He has no sense of justice unless he makes the previous government, their military leaders and those soldiers on the ground, pay for what they have done to those kids, those innocent people and the image of America around the world.

BUSH AND HIS CRONIES HAVE TO PAY!

Detached, the same people that controlled Bush, control Obama. This will be swept under the rug and the Bush administration will not even get a slap on the wrists. Politics are not real. These people high in the food chain are wolves in sheep's clothing. Don't waste your time thinking this President is any different than the others, because he's not.

I thought people on ATS knew how the wheels are turned. I can't believe people hold out hope that Obama will pull some rabbits out of his hat. Things will not get better. All that's coming is more needless taxes, more needless vaccines and more needless wars. That's the world we live in people. We have controllers and they are not nice people at all.

reply to post by Exuberant1


Some of Hersh's speeches concerning the Iraq War have described violent incidents involving U.S. troops in Iraq. In July 2004, during the height of the Abu Ghraib scandal, he alleged that American troops sexually assaulted young boys:

“ Basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys, children, in cases that have been recorded, the boys were sodomized, with the cameras rolling, and the worst above all of them is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking. That your government has. They’re in total terror it’s going to come out.[30] ”

In a subsequent interview with New York magazine, Hersh regretted that "I actually didn’t quite say what I wanted to say correctly...it wasn’t that inaccurate, but it was misstated. The next thing I know, it was all over the blogs. And I just realized then, the power of—and so you have to try and be more careful."[30] In his book, Chain of Command, he wrote that one of the witness statements he had read described the rape of a boy by a foreign contract interpreter at Abu Ghraib, during which a woman took pictures.[30]

Your source regretted saying what he did because he didn't say it correctly. Saying it wasn't THAT inaccurate, but it was misstated.

I guess the part where he said the American Soldiers was the one doing the raping was inaccurate.

He hasn't ever been realy clear on what was "that inaccurate" or what was "misstated".

So I guess he left it that way so that you can come up with your own interpertation.

I don't exactly call that reliable.

What does sodomizing children have to do with interrogation?

Reminds me of Bohemian Grove, Ted Gunderson, the Finders, McMartin Preschool, etc.

Wait a second now, before everyone gets diverted by thinking that this is a case of Iraqi guards being evil, I want to remind everyone that there was another pieces of this puzzle that came out - there was a written statement of an MP that discussed how we had captured an Iraqi boy who's father was like, a general? as I recall - and how they beat the boy and terribly abused him - knowing he was innocent - to try to get his father to talk.

I don't remember the ins, outs, round and abouts of that statement, but its' out there some place..... I think the pdf was on Cryptome, and it looks like this discusses it from back in 2005.

www.time.com...

Oh...I"m sorry, that was the WRONG MP, that MP was complaining about the amputations done there by non-medical personnel.

Here's the one: www.humanrightsfirst.info...

Page 9.

Sodomy is horrible, but the US has also made use of 'Penis-Slicing' to gain intelligence.

*From the Guardian, with regards to the individual America shipped from Guantanamo to Morocco so as to have more heinous torture inflicted upon him - In this case slicing his penis thirty times:

"They took a scalpel to my right chest. It was only a small cut. Then they cut my left chest. One of them took my penis in his hand and began to make cuts. He did it once, and they stood still for maybe a minute watching. I was in agony, crying, trying desperately to suppress myself, but I was screaming... They must have done this 20 to 30 times in maybe two hours. There was blood all over."

MI6 and CIA 'sent student to Morocco to be tortured

Here are some testimonies about the rape?

media.washingtonpost.com...

media.washingtonpost.com...

I haven't read them in full yet! so I wait with any comment!

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

Some of Hersh's speeches concerning the Iraq War have described violent incidents involving U.S. troops in Iraq. In July 2004, during the height of the Abu Ghraib scandal, he alleged that American troops sexually assaulted young boys:

“ Basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys, children, in cases that have been recorded, the boys were sodomized, with the cameras rolling, and the worst above all of them is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking. That your government has. They’re in total terror it’s going to come out.[30] ”

In a subsequent interview with New York magazine, Hersh regretted that "I actually didn’t quite say what I wanted to say correctly...it wasn’t that inaccurate, but it was misstated. The next thing I know, it was all over the blogs. And I just realized then, the power of—and so you have to try and be more careful."[30] In his book, Chain of Command, he wrote that one of the witness statements he had read described the rape of a boy by a foreign contract interpreter at Abu Ghraib, during which a woman took pictures.[30]

Your source regretted saying what he did because he didn't say it correctly. Saying it wasn't THAT inaccurate, but it was misstated.

I guess the part where he said the American Soldiers was the one doing the raping was inaccurate.

He hasn't ever been realy clear on what was "that inaccurate" or what was "misstated".

So I guess he left it that way so that you can come up with your own interpertation.

I don't exactly call that reliable.

If you read the PDF testimonies from Washington post I posted it says:

Some man raped the boy, and one women was taking pictures and were in the same cell as boy when the rape took place.

But the testimony doesn't say it was an American who raped the boy, they have blackened out parts of the testimony?

I don't know which rape case they are referring to here?

Disgusting anyway! they were present there in that cell with the woman taking pictures.

Whats the name of this woman?

[edit on 15-5-2009 by Chevalerous]

reply to post by Chevalerous


Those documents looked to be the translated testimony used at the trials of the individuals who were charged and convicted of the abuses. Unfortunately they have blacked out the name or identity of the person who was the rapist so we wont know who did the raping. I know that no US soldiers were charged with rape or sodomy in this case, from the sworn testimony it is shown that a 15-18 year old male was raped by someone at Abu Ghraib.
Wether the rapist is American or Iraqi is irrelevant according to me as US personel were present at the rape and took photographs of of it. Any US personel who were present and did not stop this from happening are as guilty as the rapist and should be punished as an accessory as far as I am concerned.( This might be the source of the Dereliction of Duty charges came in)
The sentences were way to light and some officers, as in Generals and Colonels in charge of these units should be doing serious prison time. As it is it appears only enlisted and NCo s were given the more serious punishments.

Originally posted by Ron Paul Girl
reply to post by Chevalerous

 

This is vile. I think they ought to admit what they've done, the president shoudl apologize on behalf of our country and the footage should be destroyed. No one needs to see that. Disturbing. Disgusting. Why did they even video tape it? This is evil to the core and people really need to see that our government is capable of such things and of covering them up.

The footage destroyed?! That is typical. And let's destroy all the holocaust photo's too. And the images of 9-11.
This is evidence of a war crime. I am sorry for the people involved, but it should at least be shared with the public in a minimal way and find its way to the judicial system.
Criminals have to be punished. The US falsified it's history enough in hte last century.

I get that you are sensitive person with a good heart, but the world is not made out of candy, and if we are going to make it better, we need openess, transparancy, justice and even forgiveness. The people who did this are plain crazy and need be treated in a mental hospital for a couple of years before you can let them enter society again.

reply to post by Chevalerous


I'm not saying that first testimony is true or not.

But, don't you find the use of the F word a little unprofessional for a legal statement?

He said an American told him to be like homosexuals, his own words. Then in paranthesis, which is there for clarification, is F@#king.

Just struck me as an odd thing for the person who typed it up to put that word in their instead of a more acceptable word to clarify what was trying to be said.

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by Chevalerous

 

I'm not saying that first testimony is true or not.

But, don't you find the use of the F word a little unprofessional for a legal statement?

He said an American told him to be like homosexuals, his own words. Then in paranthesis, which is there for clarification, is F@#king.

Just struck me as an odd thing for the person who typed it up to put that word in their instead of a more acceptable word to clarify what was trying to be said.

No I don't think so?

I had some police duty in the army and wrote reports and testimonies exactly like this, and exactly with the same words that was spoken.

Otherwise the testimony would/could be counted as false and not hold up in court together with the tape from the tape-recorder.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by Chevalerous]