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Hersh: Children sodomized at Abu Ghraib, on tape

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posted on May, 15 2009 @ 08:04 PM
So, you believe a treasonous Journalist with an obvious agenda, over the very word of those accused service personnel of ours? If such abuses as the sodomizing of children did in fact take place, you can rest assured that MANY of the participating or knowledgeable men and women of our MIL, would have already loudly exclaimed and decried such acts.

Are you so naive as to actually believe that our MIL is composed of the Hippy nomenclatural "Child Rapists and Murderers"?

The only individual who should find themselves at the end of a rope in this instance, is none other than the sell-out known as Seymour Hersh.

posted on May, 15 2009 @ 08:07 PM
reply to post by Chevalerous

I saw the videos you describe several years ago. They were taken when Saddam ruled Iraq.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people are quick to believe the worst about the American military. The incidents of abuse by the US military is far lower than any other comparable group or the population in general. When our military finds abuse, we have trials by court-martial and the punishments are more severe, because the military is not tolerant of behavior that discredits them.

posted on May, 15 2009 @ 08:47 PM

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
So, you believe a treasonous Journalist with an obvious agenda, over the very word of those accused service personnel of ours?

This stuff was already all over the media once and soldiers were tried for it. What reason do we have to trust the soldiers over the journalists who exposed it the first time? And like others have pointed out, if they're going to torture somebody in the first place, why stop there?

If such abuses as the sodomizing of children did in fact take place, you can rest assured that MANY of the participating or knowledgeable men and women of our MIL, would have already loudly exclaimed and decried such acts.

The Nazis "working" in the death camps didn't tell all the other civilians what they were doing, neither did their Nazi government. Learn from history folks.

posted on May, 15 2009 @ 09:02 PM

Originally posted by CharlesMartel
reply to post by Chevalerous

I saw the videos you describe several years ago. They were taken when Saddam ruled Iraq.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people are quick to believe the worst about the American military. The incidents of abuse by the US military is far lower than any other comparable group or the population in general. When our military finds abuse, we have trials by court-martial and the punishments are more severe, because the military is not tolerant of behavior that discredits them.

the videos and tapes we are discussing in this thread are NOT! taken when Saddam ruled Iraq.

The worst parts happenend between April of 2003 and December 2003 under the American military command of Abu Ghraib:

Rumsfeld: Worst Still To Come - Pentagon Boss Apologizes To Iraqis; Says More Videos, Photos Exist

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld offered "my deepest apology" Friday to Iraqi prisoners abused by sadistic military personnel and warned that videos and photos yet to come could further inflame worldwide outrage.

It's going to get a good deal more terrible, I'm afraid," he said glumly in congressional testimony televised throughout the Arab world as well as in the United States.

Six months before the presidential election, Rumsfeld's acceptance of responsibility drew a tart response from Sen. John Kerry, the Democratic challenger to Bush. "The chain of command goes all the way to the Oval Office," said the Massachusetts senator. "Harry Truman did not say, 'The buck stops at the Pentagon."'

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., told reporters, "The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. we're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience." He did not elaborate.

Lt. Gen. Lance Smith, the deputy commander of U.S. Central Command, said the abuses photographed at Abu Ghraib apparently took place in a cell block with 20 or 30 prisoners, usually late at night or before dawn, and was limited to "six or seven" military police officers.

Rumsfeld said a panel of retired officials would report within 45 days on "the pace, the breadth, the thoroughness of the existing investigations" determine whether more inquiries were needed.

And here you have articles from 2006-09 of a gang rape of a 14-year-old Iraqi girl and the killing of her and her family.

Ex-Soldier Faces Death Penalty After Jury Convicts Him of Raping Iraqi Girl, Killing Family

Four other soldiers are serving sentences of between five and 110 years for their roles in the 2006 attack

U.S. Soldier Admits Raping 15 yr old.

Photos Show Rape of Iraqi Women
by US Occupation Forces

"Rape of Iraqi girls by US mercenaries
and soldiers was rampant in Baghdad"

Army Major General Antonio M. Taguba's report states that "military intelligence interrogators and other U.S. Government Agency interrogators actively requested that Military Police guards set physical and mental conditions for favorable interrogation of witnesses." The report noted that one civilian interrogator, a contractor from a company called CACI International and attached to the 205th Military Intelligence Brigade, "clearly knew his instructions" to the Military Police equated to physical and sexual abuse. It is not known whether these instructions included, or led to, the raping of Iraqi women detainees as well.

It is now known that hundreds of these photographs had been in circulation among the troops in Iraq. The graphic photos were being swapped between the soldiers like baseball cards.

- - -

"Maybe the officers didn't know what was going on, but everybody else did. I have seen literally hundreds of these types of pictures." Many of the pictures was destroyed last September when the luggage of soldiers was searched as they left Iraq"

Abu Ghraib gang rape


[edit on 16-5-2009 by Chevalerous]

posted on May, 15 2009 @ 09:39 PM

Originally posted by EnrikezI took this statement (in context with what you followed up with) to mean that you would like 'the heads' of the people involved, but want to hide the atrocities from the Iraqi people.

The Iraqi's can READ about the atrocities, and they will. Releasing tapes of the victims screaming, or actual video of the rapes themselves is WAY WAY over the line.

The autopsy and crime scene photos of contemporary murder victims are NOT released (maybe leaked but not released by the officials to the public) but the jury may see them during the trial. That is way way different than it being broadcast all over the web or all over the tv.

What you are saying implies that every time there is a horrible murder, everytime a kid kidnapped is chopped up, the world should see the TRUTH and the pictures should be broadcast via the media. It is the same thing.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by Sonya610]

posted on May, 15 2009 @ 09:41 PM
These allegations sound over the top. I'm surprised they haven't accused soldiers of eating babies yet. Sadly there is probably some basis for charges of rape and possible murder. The truth needs to come out.

I'm in support of rough interrogation techniques, waterboarding, what some would call torture, but this sounds like something that went way too far at the hands of people who weren't trained in proper methods of obtaining intelligence. These actions are criminal if true and cast a shadow over the service of the 99.9% of soldiers who served honorably.

posted on May, 15 2009 @ 09:44 PM

Originally posted by smokingmonkey
These allegations sound over the top. I'm surprised they haven't accused soldiers of eating babies yet. Sadly there is probably some basis for charges of rape and possible murder. The truth needs to come out.

Yes I think there is a basis for it. Remember they were making men pile up naked, and engage in mock homosexual acts just to humiliate them. Most Americans would NEVER have believed that if the photos hadn't been posted all over the net.

In some cases they DID take whole families, and threatening the father or mother with the rape of their children would be a very very powerful interrogation tool. Don't think they didn't use it, there is every reason to believe they DID use it. They were sodomizing prisoners with fluorescent light bulbs for God's sake. They had female guards smearing fake menstrual blood on the prisoners at Guatamo Bay. You think if they had their children held captive they wouldn't put that to good use? Heck yeah they would.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by Sonya610]

posted on May, 15 2009 @ 10:08 PM
reply to post by Enrikez

Enrikez, Agreed and very well put. I gave you a star. I couldn't have said it better myself.

posted on May, 15 2009 @ 11:37 PM

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
So, you believe a treasonous Journalist with an obvious agenda, over the very word of those accused service personnel of ours? If such abuses as the sodomizing of children did in fact take place, you can rest assured that MANY of the participating or knowledgeable men and women of our MIL, would have already loudly exclaimed and decried such acts.

Are you so naive as to actually believe that our MIL is composed of the Hippy nomenclatural "Child Rapists and Murderers"?

The only individual who should find themselves at the end of a rope in this instance, is none other than the sell-out known as Seymour Hersh.

I believe it did happen. Didn't we pass a bill, "No Child's Behind Left".


posted on May, 15 2009 @ 11:43 PM
Most of us Americans are too retarded to believe anything without it shoved in our faces.

Look this is war, WAR

This IS how stupid, we have become as a people. The whole world collectively shook their heads in wonder that when war was declared the American people didn't rise up to stop a needless war.

Now because of a photo or a rape... some of you are... Going to to

Hang people

Strap on the guns and revolt

This is also how you LOST every inch of your freedom, it's because your stupid, you deserved it your a bunch of tv watching meatwads

WAR, Get past the Websters version and know what it means...

Definition by the MopusVindictus Dictionary

WAR: To blow up people, kill innocent civilians, kill the males, rape the women traumatize any one left standing, sow the ground with poison and end a civilization because it threatens you

and NO

Iraq didn't deserve it

So all of you complaining wake the heck up.... YOU should have said something THEN before the bombs wee launched before YOU were trapped in your house, monitored on the roads, stripped of your constitution and rights, tagged by Rfid and watched by satellite and cameras every where


Shame on all of you acting outraged now as if you don't know what the word WAR actually means, shame on your naivety and compliance

Now it's too late

Now to get the power back.... YOU SHOULD look at the tapes because that's the fight you'll have to have here now

Now it's your children facing this now you no longer own your children

and your shocked?

If you are your a joke

NOW there is NOTHING you can do but have this in your back yard one day

Congratulations, watch the A-team some more, where no one ever gets shot


Where are the tapes of what the Russians are doing in the near region? Or the Chinese in Tibet

There are none, They didn't bring Cameras into east Germany Either

The women in Darfur don't have web cams do they?

OR even Eastern EUROPE

This is how crippled we will now be if this gets public , how weak to stand up to anyone... because the bad guys don't bring Polaroids back

This is the position we will be in...EVEN IF, we can remove these people from power... which we can't without OUR HOMES Looking like Iraq

so again Congratulations Sheeple

None of you did a damn thing, none of you REMEMBER from experience what WAR really means... You think complaining in a forum would help?

YOU LET them Kill Kennedy you dummies

YOU LET them feed you Trans fatty Mc Crap to your kids for decades as FOOD

YOU LET them lock you in the house on weekends

YOU LET them imprison 20 Million AMERICANS for "social crimes"

YOU LET them pump your kids full of Mercury

YOU LET them destroy the constitution

YOU give a crank about LOST more than making LOVE

YOU refused to reproduce and have numbers so you could stuff your faces with more junk

YOU LET them declare a "War on drugs" so they could boot jack peoples doors down in AMERICA

YOU LET them enter your homes your cars...stun people

YOU LET them put you on camera



Now your mad?


The best is yet to come because

YOU LET them take over for 40 years, send your kids to school, to be told LIES and be made to feel WORTHLESS

They hold up babies to convince you how bad your neighbors are... then what.... your going to be surprised that of Millions of AMERICAN kids that vanish... some ARE exposed to ritual satanic abuses? Are you going to BE SHOCKED in 10 years when you ignored 70,000 kids that vanish every year...when some tapes one of them being DINNER for some Ghoulish old psychos finally emerge your going to be surprised right?

Your Going to be SHOCKED when you find out... there's been a HOLOCOST going on in your neighborhood the whole time just like the Germans were in ww2

THEY have an excuse... there were NO Cameras to record any previous war...they had an EXCUSE to not realize what was going on

Every one of US, has seen this before and we let it happen again

where are all these KIDS in OUR country going?


We may NEVER Know the full extent of the atrocities committed right here, to US... How many KIDS have been raped in prison, how many Kids have been taken and used and deposited where they will never be found, how many daughters have spread there legs to get out of jail,

and lets not forget the silent suffering of MEN, children taken from them... money stolen, women forced to work

I'd like to add from this FAKE sexual revolution that Enslaved women... how many of us will die alone in the future because we never had kids or our children hate us


it's not a comment of religion... it has come to spell AMERICA though

Perverted, FAT, Selfish, Lazy, Angry, Jealous, Vain

Not all of us, but most of us

And no one did a thing and talk all the smack you want NOW you can't

Because YOU LET THEM do this, sitting eating crap in front of the TV

Your concerned about this? In Iraq

It happens right here every day, 100,000 rapes this year reported... add it up in your head, the number unreported it's as bad as Darfur...

we have an estimated 10 Million regular pedophille viewers in this country

If you look at race crime in statistics you'd think you were in the third world

and now they want your guns too

Open big mouths

When I SEE ANYONE get up and do a damn thing about i'll believe it

and it wont happen, not anytime soon, because someone, anyone who stands up first will be taken right down...

YOU GAVE AMERICA away from your arm chairs... this is happening everyday to YOUR children and your all too stupid to know

in fairness i'd add

Me too

I'm a moron too... just so i'm not attacking anyone

I never stood up either

And if there is a G-d we once claimed we stood for it's high time to ask for his forgiveness. Because demons from all I have read can only come... when your GUILTY of ALL 7 deadly sins at once

and we have been, for a long time now

[edit on 15-5-2009 by mopusvindictus]

posted on May, 15 2009 @ 11:46 PM
reply to post by mopusvindictus

I agree it looks bad. Hopeless. But you have some new friends. Sleep easy.-----------PC

posted on May, 16 2009 @ 12:13 AM
reply to post by mopusvindictus

No one ever asked me! the MSM just purported to be the voice of the people and this all was pushed down our throats. What can be done when the PTB have such a grip on everything? Look at the tea parties all it took to completely silence them was a little sexual innuendo and a racist statement.

I for one am open to any logical suggestions. My only stipulation is to not be part of some hippie movement. With the number involved here it is nearly impossible to reach a consensus. Many are ready for change, but in that group are extremists’ who without a doubt would be moved to violence.

Current laws would label any organization a terrorist group, even if it was just threats that were made. What can be done at this time?

[edit on 16-5-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

posted on May, 16 2009 @ 01:18 AM

Originally posted by jsobecky

Just so the record reflects the facts:

(Update: A reader brought to our attention that the rape of boys at Abu Ghraib has been mentioned in some news accounts of the prisoner abuse evidence. The Telegraph and other news organizations described "a videotape, apparently made by US personnel, is said to show Iraqi guards raping young boys."

Rape rooms were quite common under Saddam. It is not unreasonable to believe that these rapes, if true, were committed by Iraqis.

Edit: I see that DarkStormCrow has already brought this point up. As for "US personnel", that could be a lot of groups, not only soldiers. And before we assume their motive was complicity, we should also examine whether they were actually collecting evidence.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by jsobecky]

Hello my friend, it would appear that what the ACLU has in their documents is quite compelling and typical of war. The Germans have done it to the polish in Warsaw, the Bolsheviks had raped many of their own and many from Poland also. The Iraqi's the Iranians and yes we here in America are not immune to having this type of barbarism manifest its vulgar, and grotesque behaviors acted out and upon those we have demoralized, humiliated, tortured till many of them succumbed to the abuse dying in our custody.

Document#: DOD046943-DOD047075

Government Agency: DOA

Airport (BIAP), Baghdad,

as well as various Iraqi Corrections Officers

and other members of the 372d MP Company. These other members of the 372d MP Company, SPC

and the Iraqi Corrections Officers did not participate in the abuse of detainees that was to follow.
6. Upon arrival, the accused was notified by

the MP were "taking a break." It appeared to the accused as if the MP had previously been conducting some sort of activity with three detainees. The detainees were in a cell together, and all three

floor itself. The accused joined in this effort, yelling at the detainees and using his foot to keep the detainees from rising too high off the floor. The detainees, principally at

were also forced to roll on the ground and perform a variety of
physical exercises while they were naked.

8. At some point prior to this activity, the accused was told that the detainees had allegedly raped a 15-year-old boy, also detained in the facility. Mr. and Mr. had denied doing so, confessed to the act, then apparently "confessed" again. At some point, the accused asked the abusive behavior the detainees were being subjected to was permissible. SSG told the accused something to the effect of "what you don't understand is that then added that he "loved this #." When pressed, both C P stated that they were "within their rights" to abuse detainees. The accused observed that one
of the detainees was bleeding from his wrist were he was still handcuffed or possibly the should stop.

the accused and others to continue with the abuse, and
the accused and other individuals participating in fact did continue.

behavior was "within their rights," the accused knew based on his training, experience, and education that such behavior was illegal, immoral, and without legal justification or excuse. Nevertheless, the accused assisted the MP in abusing the detainees.

other MP and holding a camera although the accused is not certain that pictures were taken with the camera.

translated for the MP and assisted in yelling at the detainees.

abuse, the group of MP
and SPC), into a silent agreement to abuse the detainees. Ultimately the detainees were handcuffed with their naked bodies pressed tightly together in such a fashion as to suggest that the men were sodomizing one another. While in this position, both

the accused used their feet to press the detainees closer together. At no time during the abuse did the detainees resist in any way or appear to be a threat. To the contrary, the detainees were in a state of terror, pain, and hopelessness throughout the abuse.

and yelled loudly at the detainees and with their voices and with various hand signals, compelled the detainees to crawl along the floor and perform individuals. Additionally, cold water on the naked detainees anytime the detainees would try to close their eyes. Because it was November and night, the cold water greatly chilled the detainees.

threw a nerf football at the detainees, striking them while they were handcuffed on the floor. The accused threw the same ball as well at the detainees, but did not actually contact any of the detainees Stipulation of Fact -

v. Cruz

the detainee several times while asking the detainee "why he raped that kid." SPC screamed and laughed at the detainees pointing out that the detainees had "small and that she was not sexually interested in "anything these guys had." This abuse was carried out in the open in tier 1B. In addition to the MI and MP soldiers
present, lraqi Corrections Officers and other detainees witnessed the humiliation of Mr. 12. During the abuse of the detainees,

actions, words, and demeanor of the individuals involved in the abuse, it was clear that SPC and The accused, however, showed no signs of personal enjoyment while conducting the abuse but remained very serious during the incident.There were no civilian contract employees or other civilian government employees present encouraging or directing this conduct, nor was there any officers or senior to After the abuse ended, lraqi Corrections Officers returned the detainees' clothes. 13. Of the three detainees involved, two were alleged to have raped another detainee, a boy aged 15. The boy was examined soon after the alleged rape and although showed signs of nervousness and fear, did not have any physical trauma that would normally be associated with multiple, forcible, anal sodomy. Further investigation revealed that the allegations of rape were unfounded. At the time of the abuse by the accused and his co-conspirators, the men were being detained for crimes against fellow Iraqis.

During the time period of the abuse on 25 October 2003, the accused did not know

or about 25 October, a friend of the accused, left the scene of abuse. SPC not participate in the abuse.

later testified during the Article 32 hearing of

that the accused made the statement to him to the effect of you're not going to tell anyone are you?"

Document #DOD042166
DETAINEE-07 was forced to lie down while MPs jumped onto his back and legs. He was beaten with a broom and a chemical light was broken and poured over his body. DETAINEE-04 witnessed the abuse with the chem-light. During this abuse a police stick was used to sodomize DETAINEE-07 and two female MPs were hitting him, throwing a ball at his penis, and taking photographs. This investigation surfaced no photographic evidence of the chemical light abuse or sodomy. DETAINEE-07 also alleged that CIVILIAN-17, MP Interpreter, Titan Corp., hit DETAINEE-07 once, cutting his ear to an extent that required stitches. He told SOLDIER-25, analyst, Bl321 MI BN, about this hitting incident during an interrogation. SOLDIER-25 asked the MPs what had happened to the detainee's ear and was told he had fallen in his cell. SOLDIER-25 did not report the detainee's abuse.

It has been said that if we were to hold ANY US president to the UN's version of what is a war criminal, most if not all would be hanged in a military tribunal. What makes this so heinous, so repugnant, is that Americans have been found to be a party to this and being who we are, it is especially disheartening to know that what we have always expected of our way of civilized justice and the rule of law, even during war, would of course be held to a higher standard than what others have done.

America has culpability and complicity in a systemic abuse situation that goes beyond anything "truly American" I am embarrassed at this and believe those accountable should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Can you imagine what discovery would be exposed if our Justice system wasn't already as corrupted by those dysfunctional Republicans and Democrats who are all part of the huge story behind the fall of an Empire previously known as The United States.

It seems unity, is Gone forever from the United States and the Diversified States of multi-culturalism has imported misogyny, drugs, the welfare state and a new liberalism that is curiously communist and a Republican brand of fascism using phony noahide zionist's posing as the most extreme and stupid examples of Christianity in an effort to get us to hate them.

Bush was a bonesman Jsobecky and so was Kerry. Cheney was once the head of the CFR and Obama is his cousin. Bush's dad is suspected of being involved in the JFK assassination.

As a nation, we judge these soldiers and they are obviously sick but as a nation of people who have been taught we are all the happenstance of Darwinian luck and basically primal animals whose basic nature is to NOT be civilized, their are people alive today merely and only merely because it is illegal to kill them. The aberration exposed in the FOIA documents by the ACLU must have them celebrating but it is the same ACLU that has aided in the demoralization of a nation where it takes something THIS twisted and repulsive to see unity and as much as I despise the ACLU, I must admit the wrongs being as evident as they are in those documents have me questioning the very state of national mental health we as a nation have devolved. We are all very sorry to see ourselves, our country putting sadists in positions of extracting information as much if not more than we are when Gay pedophiles have used the church to gain authority and access to children to exploit them. Remember, it was the sickness of the individual doing it that is to be prosecuted, but that was until we saw how a systemic coverup of the abuse went all the way to the top and was used to condemn the church as a whole.

This too, I am afraid, goes all the way to the top and both sides of the aisle.

The only way we will ever get our country fixed is to vote EVERYONE OUT and get us a bunch of rookies in there without one incumbent politician to ask for assistance, forcing them to go back to the original policy manual of running our country.

The United States Constitution and The Bill of Rights we are all endowed with by our Creator.

There is only one man in Government, that I would make an exception for.

Ron Paul

posted on May, 16 2009 @ 01:31 AM
reply to post by mopusvindictus

Just what exactly did YOU do to stop it?How many protests did YOU attend? How many guns have YOU stock piled for the "bums rush" against the white house? How much television have YOU cut from your busy schedule as one of the neo patriots now saying "i told you so"

How many posts can YOU show us you saying words to the effect you have in your arm chair quarterbacked pedantic rant?

How many letters to congress did YOU snail mail telling them of your disapproval? How many of the rothchilds have you tried to rid our society from?

Ill bet you, you could stand outside with anyone of these you are getting all puffed up about and you are as guilty as the sun that shines on both of you.

posted on May, 16 2009 @ 02:15 AM
reply to post by nunya13

Thanks for your post!

We are all waiting for the world to be a better place!

[edit on 16-5-2009 by Chevalerous]

posted on May, 16 2009 @ 02:16 AM
reply to post by Chevalerous

As nice as it would be to see the previous administration really pay for it's crimes, I don't see it happening. I agree with a the folks on here who say that releasing photos/video would only make matters worse for the U.S. as far as it being bad publicity at the wrong time. Then again, who cares how bad we look at this point. Our economy is pathetic and Congress is essentially useless. If the current nwo puppet in charge of this country wants to talk about real change, hang all those responsible for the crimes against humanity committed by us in the middle east and elsewhere.

posted on May, 16 2009 @ 02:24 AM

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by Chevalerous

One poster mentioned that we should have just left Saddam as the "ruler of his hell". I'm sorry to say that I believe this is true. Far more people have died at the hands of both the US and terrorists than at the hands of Saddam alone. Aside from our own troops who have died.

Ask any Iraq citizen and the majority of them will say that even though Saddam was a horrible man, they had a much better quality of life. Now there's terror in the streets and fear of death at every corner.

Been to Iraq twice and have met very few, maybe 10 in my two tours who didn't appreciate what we have done for them.

Don't believe everything you see on TV, take a trip down there and find out first hand. I'll call my buddy in Baghdad and have him save you an MRE.

posted on May, 16 2009 @ 04:38 AM
reply to post by Con Science

Once again a person who can't read

At the bottom of my post I said very clearly...

I was a moron about this too... we all were

all I'm saying is stop talking sh and wake up, it's going to be UGLY now to get rid of this and if you don't do something NOW it's going to be too late to do it ever.

No... not only didn't I say a word I cheered it on because I was at 9-11 on the Brooklyn Bridge and when I watched MY FRIENDS DIE, I wanted revenge

Read my old posts

I was mental over what I saw right in front of my face for a long time and i'm pretty pissed I was obviously duped by emotion

I'm one of the biggest American patriots alive...

How would I be able to say these words dead on if they didn't fool me too?

posted on May, 16 2009 @ 04:42 AM
I bet none of you want to talk about how sodomy committed against children stopped a major terror attack in L.A. do you?

Sarcasm, of course. I'm actually surprised that others are surprised about this.

posted on May, 16 2009 @ 05:01 AM
reply to post by Magnivea

You say that AS IF, anyone presupposes, the other side doesn't do the exact same thing to their people.

Yeah, I am 100% sure after we went crazy over a bombing that many, many islamics went mental too after the invasion.

Trust me I can and have and will go off plenty on THAT society, it's as sick or sicker than ours and in the end if it's a bit more so, than maybe we should win even through all this evil and disease and nightmare because I haven't known evolution to move much faster except under certain conditions than .01% a generation...

with that said, I think some of the beliefs in that part of the world are psychotic

I also think obviously ours have become psychotic as well

If you want to beat an enemy...

Be very careful to LISTEN to what your enemy says about you!!!!

They want to hurt and onl;y the truth hurts

so yeah we are FAT and LAZY and all else... we have lost our spirituality since we have become smart enough to see the lies of the church, but never replaced it, even if we are less superstitious, less ignorant... we replaced it with nothing...

and there are, there are reasons to behave like a human being even if you can't picture 72 virgins or don't believe a man was the son of g-d

The funny thing IS

They, gave us our weakness... they told us the reasons our governemnt and perhaps some very evil people have come to be in in the land of the FREE and the BRAVE

And we ignore it because we HATE... Wrath

You know... it's just true allot of us are soulless FRACK... I have been soulless most of my life...

I just got back even saying these words from drinking and whoring around... quite frankly, I could write a BOOK on who I've done candy with...

I'm not any better

But i'm damn smart enough to know where to draw the line, I pay attention, I watch... I know I was tricked, conned, screwed...

and so were the idiots who tried to do whatever to LA

Get the game THEY play and be above it...

[edit on 16-5-2009 by mopusvindictus]

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