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Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
So, you believe a treasonous Journalist with an obvious agenda, over the very word of those accused service personnel of ours?
If such abuses as the sodomizing of children did in fact take place, you can rest assured that MANY of the participating or knowledgeable men and women of our MIL, would have already loudly exclaimed and decried such acts.
Originally posted by CharlesMartel
reply to post by Chevalerous
I saw the videos you describe several years ago. They were taken when Saddam ruled Iraq.
It never ceases to amaze me how some people are quick to believe the worst about the American military. The incidents of abuse by the US military is far lower than any other comparable group or the population in general. When our military finds abuse, we have trials by court-martial and the punishments are more severe, because the military is not tolerant of behavior that discredits them.
Rumsfeld: Worst Still To Come - Pentagon Boss Apologizes To Iraqis; Says More Videos, Photos Exist
Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld offered "my deepest apology" Friday to Iraqi prisoners abused by sadistic military personnel and warned that videos and photos yet to come could further inflame worldwide outrage.
It's going to get a good deal more terrible, I'm afraid," he said glumly in congressional testimony televised throughout the Arab world as well as in the United States.
Six months before the presidential election, Rumsfeld's acceptance of responsibility drew a tart response from Sen. John Kerry, the Democratic challenger to Bush. "The chain of command goes all the way to the Oval Office," said the Massachusetts senator. "Harry Truman did not say, 'The buck stops at the Pentagon."'
Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., told reporters, "The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. we're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience." He did not elaborate.
Lt. Gen. Lance Smith, the deputy commander of U.S. Central Command, said the abuses photographed at Abu Ghraib apparently took place in a cell block with 20 or 30 prisoners, usually late at night or before dawn, and was limited to "six or seven" military police officers.
Rumsfeld said a panel of retired officials would report within 45 days on "the pace, the breadth, the thoroughness of the existing investigations" determine whether more inquiries were needed.
Ex-Soldier Faces Death Penalty After Jury Convicts Him of Raping Iraqi Girl, Killing Family
Four other soldiers are serving sentences of between five and 110 years for their roles in the 2006 attack
Army Major General Antonio M. Taguba's report states that "military intelligence interrogators and other U.S. Government Agency interrogators actively requested that Military Police guards set physical and mental conditions for favorable interrogation of witnesses." The report noted that one civilian interrogator, a contractor from a company called CACI International and attached to the 205th Military Intelligence Brigade, "clearly knew his instructions" to the Military Police equated to physical and sexual abuse. It is not known whether these instructions included, or led to, the raping of Iraqi women detainees as well.
It is now known that hundreds of these photographs had been in circulation among the troops in Iraq. The graphic photos were being swapped between the soldiers like baseball cards.
- - -
"Maybe the officers didn't know what was going on, but everybody else did. I have seen literally hundreds of these types of pictures." Many of the pictures was destroyed last September when the luggage of soldiers was searched as they left Iraq"
Originally posted by EnrikezI took this statement (in context with what you followed up with) to mean that you would like 'the heads' of the people involved, but want to hide the atrocities from the Iraqi people.
Originally posted by smokingmonkey
These allegations sound over the top. I'm surprised they haven't accused soldiers of eating babies yet. Sadly there is probably some basis for charges of rape and possible murder. The truth needs to come out.
Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
So, you believe a treasonous Journalist with an obvious agenda, over the very word of those accused service personnel of ours? If such abuses as the sodomizing of children did in fact take place, you can rest assured that MANY of the participating or knowledgeable men and women of our MIL, would have already loudly exclaimed and decried such acts.
Are you so naive as to actually believe that our MIL is composed of the Hippy nomenclatural "Child Rapists and Murderers"?
The only individual who should find themselves at the end of a rope in this instance, is none other than the sell-out known as Seymour Hersh.
Originally posted by jsobecky
Just so the record reflects the facts:
(Update: A reader brought to our attention that the rape of boys at Abu Ghraib has been mentioned in some news accounts of the prisoner abuse evidence. The Telegraph and other news organizations described "a videotape, apparently made by US personnel, is said to show Iraqi guards raping young boys."
Rape rooms were quite common under Saddam. It is not unreasonable to believe that these rapes, if true, were committed by Iraqis.
Edit: I see that DarkStormCrow has already brought this point up. As for "US personnel", that could be a lot of groups, not only soldiers. And before we assume their motive was complicity, we should also examine whether they were actually collecting evidence.
[edit on 14-5-2009 by jsobecky]
Government Agency: DOA
Airport (BIAP), Baghdad,
as well as various Iraqi Corrections Officers
and other members of the 372d MP Company. These other members of the 372d MP Company, SPC
and the Iraqi Corrections Officers did not participate in the abuse of detainees that was to follow.
6. Upon arrival, the accused was notified by
the MP were "taking a break." It appeared to the accused as if the MP had previously been conducting some sort of activity with three detainees. The detainees were in a cell together, and all three
floor itself. The accused joined in this effort, yelling at the detainees and using his foot to keep the detainees from rising too high off the floor. The detainees, principally at
were also forced to roll on the ground and perform a variety of
physical exercises while they were naked.
8. At some point prior to this activity, the accused was told that the detainees had allegedly raped a 15-year-old boy, also detained in the facility. Mr. and Mr. had denied doing so, confessed to the act, then apparently "confessed" again. At some point, the accused asked the abusive behavior the detainees were being subjected to was permissible. SSG told the accused something to the effect of "what you don't understand is that then added that he "loved this #." When pressed, both C P stated that they were "within their rights" to abuse detainees. The accused observed that one
of the detainees was bleeding from his wrist were he was still handcuffed or possibly the should stop.
the accused and others to continue with the abuse, and
the accused and other individuals participating in fact did continue.
behavior was "within their rights," the accused knew based on his training, experience, and education that such behavior was illegal, immoral, and without legal justification or excuse. Nevertheless, the accused assisted the MP in abusing the detainees.
other MP and holding a camera although the accused is not certain that pictures were taken with the camera.
translated for the MP and assisted in yelling at the detainees.
abuse, the group of MP
and SPC), into a silent agreement to abuse the detainees. Ultimately the detainees were handcuffed with their naked bodies pressed tightly together in such a fashion as to suggest that the men were sodomizing one another. While in this position, both
the accused used their feet to press the detainees closer together. At no time during the abuse did the detainees resist in any way or appear to be a threat. To the contrary, the detainees were in a state of terror, pain, and hopelessness throughout the abuse.
and yelled loudly at the detainees and with their voices and with various hand signals, compelled the detainees to crawl along the floor and perform individuals. Additionally, cold water on the naked detainees anytime the detainees would try to close their eyes. Because it was November and night, the cold water greatly chilled the detainees.
threw a nerf football at the detainees, striking them while they were handcuffed on the floor. The accused threw the same ball as well at the detainees, but did not actually contact any of the detainees Stipulation of Fact -
the detainee several times while asking the detainee "why he raped that kid." SPC screamed and laughed at the detainees pointing out that the detainees had "small and that she was not sexually interested in "anything these guys had." This abuse was carried out in the open in tier 1B. In addition to the MI and MP soldiers
present, lraqi Corrections Officers and other detainees witnessed the humiliation of Mr. 12. During the abuse of the detainees,
actions, words, and demeanor of the individuals involved in the abuse, it was clear that SPC and The accused, however, showed no signs of personal enjoyment while conducting the abuse but remained very serious during the incident.There were no civilian contract employees or other civilian government employees present encouraging or directing this conduct, nor was there any officers or senior to After the abuse ended, lraqi Corrections Officers returned the detainees' clothes. 13. Of the three detainees involved, two were alleged to have raped another detainee, a boy aged 15. The boy was examined soon after the alleged rape and although showed signs of nervousness and fear, did not have any physical trauma that would normally be associated with multiple, forcible, anal sodomy. Further investigation revealed that the allegations of rape were unfounded. At the time of the abuse by the accused and his co-conspirators, the men were being detained for crimes against fellow Iraqis.
During the time period of the abuse on 25 October 2003, the accused did not know
or about 25 October, a friend of the accused, left the scene of abuse. SPC not participate in the abuse.
later testified during the Article 32 hearing of
that the accused made the statement to him to the effect of you're not going to tell anyone are you?"
DETAINEE-07 was forced to lie down while MPs jumped onto his back and legs. He was beaten with a broom and a chemical light was broken and poured over his body. DETAINEE-04 witnessed the abuse with the chem-light. During this abuse a police stick was used to sodomize DETAINEE-07 and two female MPs were hitting him, throwing a ball at his penis, and taking photographs. This investigation surfaced no photographic evidence of the chemical light abuse or sodomy. DETAINEE-07 also alleged that CIVILIAN-17, MP Interpreter, Titan Corp., hit DETAINEE-07 once, cutting his ear to an extent that required stitches. He told SOLDIER-25, analyst, Bl321 MI BN, about this hitting incident during an interrogation. SOLDIER-25 asked the MPs what had happened to the detainee's ear and was told he had fallen in his cell. SOLDIER-25 did not report the detainee's abuse.
Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by Chevalerous
One poster mentioned that we should have just left Saddam as the "ruler of his hell". I'm sorry to say that I believe this is true. Far more people have died at the hands of both the US and terrorists than at the hands of Saddam alone. Aside from our own troops who have died.
Ask any Iraq citizen and the majority of them will say that even though Saddam was a horrible man, they had a much better quality of life. Now there's terror in the streets and fear of death at every corner.