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Proposal would require all to have health coverage

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posted on May, 15 2009 @ 03:28 AM
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Universal Healthcare is a farce.

We can do some of these things through private charities with government oversight. The goal here is not about healthcare it's about another government program that will waste and spend billions of dollars. Politicians love a new plan with big government because your money gives them power. Why people have not figured that out yet is beyond me.

Just look at the voucher program in D.C. Minority kids are going to good schools and their parents are happy. Obama wants to end the program because it's not about education. It's about getting more of your money and pleasing the teachers union. We have been throwing money down the black hole of public schools and things just get worse.

We can start off by giving every uninsured individual 2 free physicals a year. This will go along way when it comes to prevention. We can do this through a private charity with government oversight. They wouldn't want this because they can care less about healthcare they just want your money because it gives them power.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by platosallegory]




posted on May, 15 2009 @ 05:24 AM
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reply to post by platosallegory
 

and what pray tell, do these people do, when one of their free physicals turns up a medical problem and they are sent to a specialist, prescribed $250 dollar pills, ect?? na, a few sympathetic gestures of kindness isn't gonna help much at all....sorry. the fact is, the country CAN'T AFFORD this healthcare system. those who can afford, can only afford it because someone, somewhere, is helping it get paid for, either through their taxes, or through the premiums they are paying for their essentially useless insurance!
the is no force working to keep the fees and such that the insurance companies, the doctors, the medical labs, the drug companies can charge! they will always have customers. because, well, if we will not be willing customers, well, the government will come along and tax the hades out of us and well, provide them with the customers!

just like well, no one wanted to buy cars made in the US, so, well, now the government is taking your money and giving it to the manufacturers anyways......you would have been better off just to buy the danged car you didn't want, at least then, you would have had something for your m oney!



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by king9072
 


Let me be very clear about this. I personally don't agree with socialized health care run by MY GOVERNMENT. I think that most of them are incompetant, money grubbing, fools. I'm glad you guys up north are doing well, but I'm refering to AMERICA, and how WE would run the program. What I am concerned about is more and more people being dependant apon MY govt. in their daily lives (See origional thread post). To be honest, I have not met many Canadians, and if you are the norm, then I am glad I don't live in Vancouver, because you are a very angry person.

Peace Brother
-E-



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy Government can't run anything efficiently. Look at medicare. It's a damn joke.



Medicare is far from perfect but there are millions of elderly Americans that payed taxes all their life for this government program and are alive because of it. Now they receive medicine they could'nt otherwise afford and receive medical care.
Ask them if they think medicare is a joke. Ask my mother.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by whaaa]


I agree that the Medicare program has been very helpful to our elderly, but you cannot ignore the fact that it is on a colission course with bankrupcy because it has not been run properly.

-E-



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 08:54 AM
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Here are my thoughts on this plan and Socialized medicine:

#1. We would not have this problem of so many people going without health insurance if it was not so danged expensive. Doc's and hospitals keep raising the prices so that the avg cannot afford to pay it without health insurance. I realize some of the raising prices are due to inflation but I do know most reasons why the higher price bill is for the doctors own insurance in case they screw up. Patient goes to doctor, doctor diagnoses, patient later finds out he or she was misdiagnosed and or treated and sues. Most lawsuits should not be allowed to sue for as much money as they are getting away with.

Why is the BigMac no longer on the $1 dollar menu? Because some idiot sued them since she spilled hot coffee on her own lap!

#2. The quality of healthcare treatment will go down with socialized medicine. Many aspects to this but I will focus on 1. This happened to a past co-worker of mine. Her grandmother lived in Quebec and went to the hospital over having chest pains, (it was a heart attack). Grandmother checks in to ER. ER has a long wait. 22 hours later they call her name to see and treat her. They found her dead in the waiting room lobby chairs!

No more ellaboration needed.

#3. I do not mind giving a little to help others in desperate need. But how the hell do they expect me to pay more taxes to cover their cost when even the welfare system is known for being abused and they do not seem to do anything about it! I would want to make sure my hard earned money goes to where it is needed and not where someone is abusing and taking advantage of the currently flawed system.

#4. I see big brother as using this as a tool to force us the public into submission as we cannot survive and or have heavy penalties without their healthcare.

#5. Most current healthcare insurances do not want to cover natural treatments and instead want us all to pop another pill of chemical drugs. Turn the nation into legal pill popping druggies. Pills should be a last resort not the only form of treatment. Sinusitus - if you catch it early one can take Goldenseal to help the mucus membrane to not produce as much mucus. Another great and overlooked natural herb is the power of garlic! Look up both of those as for thier uses for further info.

That is all I care to discuss for now. I get a little angry thinking about it. This is America. Where we have choice. Ability to choose means opportunity for others to fulfill goods or services. Take away our ability to choose then you take away our freedom of choice.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 09:09 AM
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I'm at the point where I wouldn't trust the government to tie their own shoes, LET ALONE make decisions about my body and my health. How can people possibly think this is a good idea when every single thing the government has put their fingers on has turned into a worthless black hole money pit? Our health care systems is fine the way it is, the problem is that politicians are in bed with insurance companies and corporations. The out of control costs have nothing to do with the cost of health care, just look at that news story that was posted a week or so ago about the doctor in NY trying to offer flat rate health care to get around the insurance nonsense, but they wouldn't let him. The inflated costs of health care are not going to your neighbor the hardworking nurse, they are going to the big shots at the insurance company who denied coverage to your grandmother's operation.

American's have just become impotent docile little servants who won't stand up for themselves anymore, when you combine bailouts, social security, medicare, ridiculous amounts of inflation, and all the other nonsense we are seeing some of the greatest theft in human history unfold before our eyes and people act like its no big deal. But hey, did you see the new Lost?!



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 09:26 AM
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To make anything work properly, you first need a corruption free government running things, with independent oversight to MAKE SURE they keep things legal.

A National Health Service is not a bad thing and, as has been said before, it would be a hell of a lot cheaper for the people than the current private insurance they pay.
It's also a matter of priorities. Look at the hundreds of $Billions spent on pointless wars, to fatten the coffers of the military industry and other corporations, causing huge bloodshed and suffering on all sides. Nobody bats an eyelid at that, but as soon as someone mentions national health for all, people get all uppity. Surely the money could be better spent on keeping people healthy rather than building weapons to satisfy the bloodlust of the politicians and the bank accounts of the arms industrialists?



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by Britguy
 


Well said my man! It's a question of priorities...



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 09:49 AM
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The only way I would be for this is if it didn't include new taxes...which is just crazy thinking.

If they actually spent all the money they are wasting on it for something useful (but not fair in my taste), then whatever.

But what will happen is that those who went on to make a decent living will just have to pay more for those who did otherwise.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 09:53 AM
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This whole idea of socialized health care is definitely a blow to our freedom. How can I be free if I have health care?

For the record, I am sick of socialized police and fire service as well. I don't think that everyone should be entitled to these services. We should privatize them so that I'm not stuck footing the bill for poor people. This is America after all, not Sweden.

Everyone knows that a nation is best judged by how it treats it's highest class of citizens, not it's lowest.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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The reason we need national health care is because the existing health care system, like the existing government, business, religious, etc system is made up of greedy people. Me first. With the erosion of Christian charitable principles, we will never establish a strong civilization.

For example, my wife went in for chemotherapy. In a single visit, the hospital charges to Health Net were $45,000. She was there for three hours. Health Net paid. That raised your premiums.

The government will likely work through existing insurers. Group insurance is more expensive than individual insurance because it covers those who would not be able to get individual insurance. The government is assuming responsibility for these sick, and is willing to pay the difference.

If major health insurance companies do not control expenses any better than the example I gave, what are the chances a large government bureaucracy, which costs us more taxes to maintain, will do any better?

Government should be in the spot inspection and regulation business, not in the doing business. We should privatize everything possible --- fire, police, education, etc. and just spot inspect and regulate these forces. I believe it is our business as a people to work together to make a good system, not to remake the system in the image of government. Government can keep rates down by regulation and inspection. We must then inspect the inspectors by voting.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 10:02 AM
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I honestly don't understand why people would be against nationalized healthcare. The US is a mess and if I had the means I would move to Europe in a heartbeat.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 10:06 AM
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What if your self-employed? I can barely afford things as they are. I can't afford health insurance premiums.

You know what they'll do after they get everyone dependent on government. The government will, in addition to sin taxes on everything, start dictating what you can and can't do, eat and not eat. Make you come in for checkups. Require you to take certain medications. Your body will not be yours. You think I'm talking nonsense - JUST WAIT AND SEE!



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by dawnstar
 


Of course they would be helped but that will not be the norm.

One of the main problems is prevention. People without insurance will not go to the hospital until they have to. So if they had a physica and it was found early, Doctor's could catch it in it's early stages.

Again, the reason why this wouldn't be accepted by liberals is because they couldn't get there hands on the money to waste and spend. The Government waste trillions of dollars and the American people just put their head in the sand.

Things like healthcare and education are just used because they know these things appeal to your emotion and not reason. They say we need money for healthcare and the government checkbook is opened and billions are thrown down a black hole in a matter of minutes.

Charities make billions per year and would be great in this situation and all the government would do is oversight. Did people just see the latest report about Medicare and Social Security running out of money? The Government has us in over 11 trillion dollars of debt in a 13 trillion dollar economy. Government waste money and we don't need universal health care. It appeals to people's compassion but it's just another government program that will rack up trillions and we are already drowning in debt.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by king9072
Haha ignorance at it's finest.

Socialized medical is not the horror your MSM has brainwashed you into believing. If any of you ever left your god forsaken country and visited Canada, England or France, a quick chat with local AVERAGE citizens would quickly reveal that fact.

Besides, even if you idiots are in that small percentage that can actually afford health care, under socialized medical if you have money you can pay for faster treatment/surgery or whatever.

How any of you can defend your medical system when HALF OF ALL BANKRUPTCY'S IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ARE DUE TO HEALTH CARE COSTS


You ignorant people cant see past your nose, and those people who have their lives shattered by mounting medical bills are desperate. They have nothing to lose and it can spawn foreclosures, crime, drug abuse, school drop outs etc.

Those people, the people that get face *snip* by your government are the people breaking into your car at night, or your house while your at work. It's becoming more and more apparent that this site does nothing in denying ignorance, it's ripe with it. Quit letting the mainstream media tell you what is right for you, do some research and maybe leave your hell hole of a country for once and visit a country that has a "socialized" medical system.

Socialized schools, ok?
Socialized police, ok?
Socialized fire departments, ok?
Socialized libraries, ok?

Socialized medical? HELL NO VARMANT WE AERS AMARACANS YALL HAR HAR SOCIALIZ'N SCUM

IGNORANCE

[edit on 14-5-2009 by king9072]

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[edit on 5/15/2009 by maria_stardust]


Yay! the only reasonle person('s post) i found in this thread so far..
Actually i was questioning lately when Obama would finally tackle this issue ! a promise and finally he's going to do something about it..And if he does, cry all you like about antichrist or nwo but then he might save thousands if not millions of people's lives who cannot afford the current health care program and just die because of huge profits pharmaceuticals are gaining from the current situation...a *snip* disgrace...
I don't know how the details of the plan works but in most healtcare programs in Europe people need to have a minimun of health care insurance ,. (and yes people can get a fine if hey dont] or have it for free.. here in The Netherlands where the system if a little more privatized then in other parts of the continent people can also have choices on top of their minimum insurance and choose between different companies/different premiums[if they "want" that on top of their minimum HC contract]..And people questioning how he's going to pay or all this HC ? Well $97 billion for one year of war?how about rolling the press for the health&wealth for your own nation..?
I still haven't heard any person in this thread who went [almost] bankrupt because of the current health care system in the US..

i quess nobody here ever watched Sicko.. oh no that's from that socialist America hater....

[edit on 15-5-2009 by Foppezao]

[edit on 15-5-2009 by Foppezao]
 



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[edit on 5/15/2009 by JacKatMtn]



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 10:09 AM
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I think this proposal is worse then socialized health care. They are proposing that WE have to get our own healthcare. They then say that the govt. and employers will help pay the bill. Well, what will that do to small business' that are walking a thin line financially? The only logical way for the govt. to be able to help pay the bill is to raise taxes, or borrow more from our children.

-E-



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by MysterE
I think this proposal is worse then socialized health care. They are proposing that WE have to get our own healthcare. They then say that the govt. and employers will help pay the bill. Well, what will that do to small business' that are walking a thin line financially? The only logical way for the govt. to be able to help pay the bill is to raise taxes, or borrow more from our children.

-E-


Exactly and people are just caught up in the word healthcare and they are not thinking. Liberalism is about feeling good no matter how much it will rob our kids and grandkids of opportunity.

We are drowning them in debt before their even born because we want to feel good about healthcare. We have to be smart and we can't keep giving government an open checkbook to borrow and print money which we have to pay interest on.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by suicydking

Everyone knows that a nation is best judged by how it treats it's highest class of citizens, not it's lowest.




Excuse me? who are you quoting? Mugabe, some other dictator?

And ghee you might pay some taxes for some one elses health instead of buying a second SUV..I am pretty conservative if it comes to social welfare but your health is the most important thing in your life!!!!
It is a government's responsibility to take care of that at the minimum, otherwise it is absurd that same government is allowed to take your life with death penalty...





We are drowning them in debt before their even born because we want to feel good about healthcare. We have to be smart and we can't keep giving government an open checkbook to borrow and print money which we have to pay interest on.



SO if you are ill in this current situation and without a proper income you don't think you could come into a little debt if your life is worth it? instead of a situation with free health care? with some higher taxes...






[edit on 15-5-2009 by Foppezao]



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 10:27 AM
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Individuals would be required to get coverage, either through an employer or government plan, or on their own. Employers would be required to provide coverage or pay the government a percentage of payroll.


And...


The summary of the House plan does not include any cost estimates, but independent experts have put the price tag for such a plan at $1.2 trillion to $1.5 trillion over 10 years, with some estimates ranging as high as $1.7 trillion.


Bad news for small business

-E-



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by MysterE
 


Our politicians love to talk about helping small businesses. But when they create laws they love to help their big corporate buddies screw the little guy.



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