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Anti Vaccination Body Count

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posted on May, 14 2009 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by Tentickles
 


You are wrong about my "disinfo agent" status and you are wrong about vaccines. Fortunately for you, enough have been vaccinated to limit contagion and reduce your risk.




posted on May, 15 2009 @ 01:16 AM
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reply to post by pteridine
 


Yes nothing like relaying on the rest of us to do so so that one can be fashionable or trendy.

Ive said it once and Im going to say it again, anybody that takes healthcare advice from a celeb is a moron.

More to the point, the taxpayers, insurance comapanies et al should not have to shoulder the burden of caring for those who get sick from these preventable illnesses



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 01:34 AM
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The incidence of autism in the USA is up more than 50 fold in the past 30 years alone. Vaccinations are the prime suspect. There's no point in going on this self-righteous Jenny McCarthy bashing spree because she's right and you're wrong. But if it makes you feel like a better parent, make sure you get every vaccination for your children that the doctors and the schools and the police and the bankers order them to take. Hell, do the rounds twice since it makes you feel so good... like a good and responsible guardian for your innocent kids.

Just make sure you take good care of yourself as well, so you'll be around to change their diapers for the rest of their lives.

www.autism.com...



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 02:15 AM
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Originally posted by Albertarocks
The incidence of autism in the USA is up more than 50 fold in the past 30 years alone. Vaccinations are the prime suspect. There's no point in going on this self-righteous Jenny McCarthy bashing spree because she's right and you're wrong. But if it makes you feel like a better parent, make sure you get every vaccination for your children that the doctors and the schools and the police and the bankers order them to take. Hell, do the rounds twice since it makes you feel so good... like a good and responsible guardian for your innocent kids.

Just make sure you take good care of yourself as well, so you'll be around to change their diapers for the rest of their lives.

www.autism.com...


The incidence of Autism has increased because we didn't even know of such a thing 30 years ago and we are better now at making the diagnosis.

If you wish you believe Jenny McCarthy over long, broad, prospective controlled studies, that's your prerogative. That's not denying ignorance.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 08:27 AM
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There are a few studies that show a correlation between SIDS and vaccinations...www.consumerhealth.org...

Given that the U.S passes out these vaccines to every child insured or not why is our infant mortality rate ranked so high? www.wsws.org...


[edit on 15-5-2009 by Witness2008]



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
reply to post by pteridine
 


Yes nothing like relaying on the rest of us to do so so that one can be fashionable or trendy.

What's the problem? You've been vaccinated, so you must be safe, right? This theme is common nowadays: The vaccinated are afraid of getting sick from those who have not been vaccinated. Why? I know that aluminum and formaldehyde don't belong in my body, so I prefer not to put them there. If that's "trendy", then fine. Seems more like common sense to me though.


Originally posted by FredT
Ive said it once and Im going to say it again, anybody that takes healthcare advice from a celeb is a moron.

If you pulled the plug on your own child after watching them in a vegetative state fro several weeks as a direct result of a vaccine, you'd say the same thing about the doctors who told you the vaccine was needed.


Originally posted by FredT
More to the point, the taxpayers, insurance comapanies et al should not have to shoulder the burden of caring for those who get sick from these preventable illnesses

C'mon, you don't really think your taxes would go down if every man, woman and child in the country were vaccinated do you? The insurance companies sole purpose for existence is to "shoulder the burden", and they collect a healthy premium for doing so. Do you think there's no "burden" to shoulder when someone ends up in intensive care due to an adverse reaction to a vaccine?

In the end, vaccines are just like religion. We're not all going to agree one way or another, no matter how much preaching is going on. We'd do well to exercise a little tolerance, and let those who prefer not to inject themselves and their children with things like formaldehyde and thimerosol (yes, it's still in plenty of vaccines), aluminum phosphate, ammonium sulfate, dog and horse blood, fetal bovine serum, etc. live the way they want to live...

[edit on 5/15/2009 by Unit541]



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 10:41 AM
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We've done all the vaccinations except the yearly flu shots. We tried that and my daughter would get VERY sick each and every time after getting the shot.

So we don't do the flu shots and we will definately not do the swine flu shot.

The risk of Guillian Burre is way too high .. and we get sick.

Otherwise, we got the shots.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by FredT
 


Taxpayers and insurance companies will likely adjust rates and coverages at some point to require innoculation or pay higher rates. Certification of innoculation by a provider acceptable by the insurance company will be a standard at some point. those that refuse will just pay slightly higher rates.
I expect that this concept will extend to seatbelts and motorcycle helmets. If you pay the seatbelt or helmet rate and are in an accident without the safety device, your insurance won't pay.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 12:05 PM
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Hi,

I found the following brief history of Epidemics to be very interesting reading material. I have obviously not been able to check all the claims but if anywhere near accurate it not only makes good sense not to vaccinate but necessary to try to stop others, as a general rule, from allowing this to be done to their children.

www.ddponline.org/epidemics.pdf

Stellar



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by StellarX
 


Interesting reading, thanks!

I like the vaccination time line.

Interesting

1900 The Rockefeller and J. P. Morgan syndicate buys Encyclopedia Britannica and all derogatory references to vaccination are removed.


Here's a good one...

1976 During the great swine flu hoax, President Ford is vaccinated before a TV audience of millions. More than 500 people receiving flu vaccinations become paralyzed with Guillain-Barre Syndrome.



1985 Professor G. Stewart claims that "There is no doubt in my mind that in the U.K. alone some hundreds, if not thousands, of well infants have suffered irreparable brain damage needlessly (due to being vaccinated)."


Oh, here's a great one...

1992 America's Centers for Disease Control (CDC) in Atlanta admits in that the polio live-virus vaccine had become the main cause of polio in the United States. Specifically, the CDC asserted that, from 1973 to 1983, 87% of all (non-imported) cases of polio resulted directly from vaccine administration. Even more amazingly, it was asserted that every non-imported case of polio in the United States from 1980 to 1989 was vaccine-induced (Strebel, P. M., et al., Epidemiology of Poliomyelitis in the U.S. One Decade after the Last Reported Case of Indigenous Wild Virus Associated Disease, Clinical Infectious Diseases, CDC, February 1992, pp. 568-579).


And a perfect example of the cure being worse than the disease.

1996 872 serious adverse events reported to VAERS in children under 14 years of age who had been injected with hepatitis B vaccine. 48 children were reported to have died after they were injected with hepatitis B vaccine that same year. By contrast, in 1996 only 279 cases of hepatitis B disease were reported in children under age 14.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by Unit541
What's the problem? You've been vaccinated, so you must be safe, right? This theme is common nowadays: The vaccinated are afraid of getting sick from those who have not been vaccinated.


I just want to address this one point, since it comes up in virtually every thread about vaccination and is simply wrong.

I have been vaccinated, for instance, against measles. So I am almost certain not to get measles if for instance I sit in pediatrician's waiting room next to you and your child who has not been vaccinated and has contracted measles from a classmate who just returned from somewhere where measles is endemic.

If however I am holding a nine month old child, that child very well may get measles. He or she would be too young to have been vaccinated, too old to still be protected by maternal antibodies, and at very high risk of complications including meningitis and encephalitis.

It is not ourselves that people who advocate vaccination are concerned about; it is those who rely on what is known as "herd immunity" to keep dangerous diseases from being rampant and to prevent an outbreak from turning into an epidemic.

In addition to the very young, there are the immunodeficient and those whose religious beliefs forbid them from accepting such medical care.

 


Here's my soapbox: the terrible harm done by extremists in the anti-vaccination camp is not just in lowering vaccination rates, but also in polarizing the topic so that it is almost impossible to address the very real concerns that exist. The vaccine-autism link has been repeatedly disproved, and the only person to ever publish an article claiming it has been exposed as having falsified data.

On the other hand, the HPV vaccine was rolled out (in my opinion, and many doctors') much too fast, with too little testing, and recommended or even mandated for girls without nearly enough evidence that it will provide protection in the long run. It was mislabeled in the press as a "vaccination against cervical cancer" (and I notice that the cdc list FredT provides above even claims that cervical cancer is a vaccine-preventible disease -- a real stretch since there are cancer-causing strains of HPV that are not addressed by the current vaccines, although they are relatively rare).

But every time questions are brought up about one vaccine, the topic turns straight to the evils of all vaccines and all medical professionals, and invariably the specter of autism is raised.

The result is polarization, confusion, and misdirection.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by americandingbat
 


For every study that attempts to sever the link between vaccines and various illnesses there is another that puts them right back together.

The pharmaceutical companies refuse accountability when folks are harmed while pocketing enormous profits from the "herd mentality"

Here is an interesting site that explains the danger parents can face.
deathbyvaccination.com...

Most of the studies and campaigns to make the pharmaceutical industry accountable are driven by parents who trusted their physicians and the Pharma companies and inoculated their children.

I was never interested as a parent in endangering the health of my child or myself to keep the herd safe. Like I said earlier each parent needs to approach vaccines in an educated manner and understand both arguments.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 05:02 PM
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There are way to many people that die as a direct result of vaccines to even bother worrying about the autism link, instead you should worry about death! Or look there is even a story right now about this HPV vaccine www.abovetopsecret.com... If you want to take a chance and put something in your body go ahead, but when you try to force others under the guise of safety that's just plain wrong, especially when people die from these.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by americandingbat
 


For every study that attempts to sever the link between vaccines and various illnesses there is another that puts them right back together.


If you can find a good study that demonstrates the link between thimerosal in vaccines and autism, please u2u me the link and I will happily read it.

If the study has manipulated statistics (for instance, lumping in ADD/ADHD with autism-spectrum disorders) or is based on skewed data sets (surveys of siblings of autistic children, for example) don't bother. I've seen them.

If you understood what I posted, then you know that I have concerns about links between vaccines and other diseases/syndromes/problems.

In fact, what I was writing about is pretty much what I think has happened in the responses to my post here. I brought up some legitimate concerns about vaccination and about specific vaccines, but questioned the more extreme claims that have simply not been demonstrated despite lots of attempts to do so.

By reacting to my mildly anti-Pharma and anti-vaccine post as though I was the enemy, and using misleading rhetoric (equating "herd immunity" with "herd mentality") your post has set me on the defensive and further persuaded me that the anti-vaccine camp is not interested in truth but only in protest and sensationalism.


I was never interested as a parent in endangering the health of my child or myself to keep the herd safe. Like I said earlier each parent needs to approach vaccines in an educated manner and understand both arguments.


Again, I did not try to tell anyone what to do about vaccination in their own family. I just countered the ridiculous argument (which shows up all the time in anti-vaccine rhetoric) that the only possible source of concern is one's own well-being and that therefore if people who believe in vaccination actually believe they work, they shouldn't care whether other people get vaccinated.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by secretstash
 


Here is a link to a thread that may help.
There are some links there that may help in finding out.

Rabbit hole entrance



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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To vaccinate or not? Personal choice. Don't ram it down my throat.
Just gonna throw this out there for ya'll to chew on...
As I child I was vaccinated for everything.
At age 5 I came down with the worst case of whooping cough my doc had seen..despite been vaccinated for it.
I missed two months of school.
I would cough, and wheeze till I threw up. At age 5..I wanted to die.
Now..
My son, at age eight, not vaccinated, gets whooping cough. A nasty cough and wheeze, never throws up..and it lasted about 3 weeks, with a mild lingering cough for another two weeks after.
so go figure...
Not to mention, my son is homeschooled....and not to mention , NOBODY ELSE in my household got sick, including his non-vaccinated younger siblings.
Contagious my ass.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by americandingbat
 


Interesting response. As to how my post could have placed you in a position of defense eludes me. I try to keep what I say as moderate and to the point as possible.

IMO any study that excludes ADD or ADHD is also excluding the possibilities that thimerasol could in fact have a greater range of dangers.

The National Autism Association web site www.nationalautismassociation.org... links a study that some folks may find helpful.

I certainly did not look upon your post as one being stated by the "enemy". With that said however your defense of "herd immunity" vs "herd mentality" as being ridiculous I take issue with because one can only be had through the other.

I say we bring accountability back to the Pharma industry...let's face it they have a questionable track record.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by Witness2008]



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by americandingbat
 


Interesting response. As to how my post could have placed you in a position of defense eludes me. I try to keep what I say as moderate and to the point as possible.


In tone and presentation your reply was well balanced and fair.

What I objected to primarily was the impression I had that the only thing that had been taken from most post was my assertion that the causal link between the thimerosal in vaccines and autism-spectrum disorders had been disproven.

That in a sense, once I had said that anything else I said in questioning vaccination or the pharmaceutics industry didn't matter or didn't count. It is a sense I get frequently in these threads, so I was reacting not just to your post (my bad, sorry).

I may also have overreacted because when I wrote that post it was expressly to highlight and argue against the automatic categorization of positions into "pro-vaccine" and "anti-vaccine" as though there are no middle positions, and especially against the way that plays out here on ATS, which is in my experience that to point out flaws in one anti-vaccine argument causes people to assume that I am at least duped by doctors and at most a paid disinfo agent of Big Pharma (yes, the accusation has been made. No, it is not true.)

I think that attitude is just as problematic as the attitude that is present on (for instance) the CDC's web site, that questioning the safety of vaccination is somehow unscientific.


IMO any study that excludes ADD or ADHD is also excluding the possibilities that themerasol could in fact have a greater range of dangers.


Perhaps. But including them as "autism-spectrum disorders" is obviously misleading. It's part of what I'm talking about: many anti-vaccination websites spin what would be valid concerns into sensational concerns. Then, when someone like me who is trying to find out what the studies actually show comes along, they discover that the claims made are not supported, and are less likely to look into the lesser claims that the data do support.

So (making up an example from a study that I remember reading but don't have a link to) a study that was sponsored by a non-profit devoted to spreading the word about the link between vaccines and autism did just that. Their data did not support the original hypothesis (that autism rates would be higher in the vaccinated population) but did show increased rates of ADD/ADHD. Rather than publishing and promoting the study as evidence that a link between vaccination and ADD should be explored, they chose to group together ADD and autism spectrum disorders and promote their study as having proved a link between neurological disorders including autism and vaccination.

It's all in the spin and in the funding, on both sides of the issue.


The National Autism Association web site www.nationalautismassociation.org... links a study that some folks may find helpful.


I didn't see a link to a study on that site? What I do see is a chart demonstrating similarities between mercury poisoning symptoms and autism, but nothing that suggests that exposure to mercury as a component of thimerosal in vaccines is the culprit in causing autism (as opposed to, for example, higher environmental mercury exposure).


I certainly did not look upon your post as one being stated by the "enemy".


If I overreacted, I apologize



With that said however your defense of "herd immunity" vs "herd mentality" as being ridiculous I take issue with because one can only be had through the other.


And I beg to disagree. Herd immunity is a poorly-named way of saying "keeping the disease from becoming endemic". Understanding and desiring that end does not entail a "herd mentality." In fact, vocally and persistently doing so on ATS feels a lot more like resisting the stampede.


I say we bring accountability back to the Pharma industry...let's face it they have a questionable track record.


And I heartily agree (though I question whether there ever was accountability in the pharma industry).



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by americandingbat
 


My interest in this subject of immunizations was resurrected due to the fact that my youngest son who had his own son born back in October was threatened with CPS and the refusal to release by hospital staff in Austin Texas if he did not allow his infant to be vaccinated for Hepatitis B.

My son knows full well the dangers of this particular vaccine having been vaccinated before taking a job in the food industry a few years ago. He was hospitalized from the reaction he had.

I agree with you that there is much sensationalistic ant-vaccine information out there...but given the profit that these programs generate for the industry I strongly believe that the health of the vaccinated should be foremost in the minds of researches and CEO's.

It's been good talking with you.



posted on May, 22 2009 @ 07:30 PM
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reply to post by Witness2008
 




The requirement to give the HepB vaccine to newborns before they leave the hospital is one that can get me going too. It's really (in my opinion) a perfect example of how sick the vaccination protocol currently is, and why it's so important for people to learn about all sides of this issue.



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